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[Updated] How to repopulate nullsec - a question for highsec/WH players (and CCP)

First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#481 - 2011-10-26 16:21:02 UTC
You see a noob in a T1 frigate getting ganked.

I see a hostile cyno alt intercepted in the nick of time.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#482 - 2011-10-26 17:26:59 UTC
get rid of minerals from drones!
Hung TuLo
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#483 - 2011-10-26 18:02:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Hung TuLo
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
get rid of minerals from drones!


Please tell me how minerals in drones keep people from Null sec?

"In space all warriors are cold warriors" ---  General Chang  Star Trek VI

Jenshae Chiroptera
#484 - 2011-10-26 18:12:27 UTC
Hung TuLo wrote:

Please how minerals in drones keep people from Null sec?


... is our Kryptonite! Hisss! P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

pussnheels
Viziam
#485 - 2011-10-26 18:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
never mind forum ate my wall of text and i am not going to bother to write it down again


Damn ccp fix this

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#486 - 2011-10-26 18:34:00 UTC
Hung TuLo wrote:
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
get rid of minerals from drones!


Please tell me how minerals in drones keep people from Null sec?


They make it much less worth mining MABC ores.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#487 - 2011-10-26 18:34:46 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
never mind forum ate my wall of text and i am not going to bother to write it down again


Damn ccp fix this



Pro-Tip™: Whenever you put more than 50 words into a post, CTRL-A, CTRL-C, then post.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#488 - 2011-10-26 18:36:13 UTC
Hung TuLo wrote:
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
get rid of minerals from drones!


Please tell me how minerals in drones keep people from Null sec?


It makes one of the primary occupations in eve uneconomic.
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#489 - 2011-10-26 22:12:19 UTC
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
get rid of minerals from drones!



^^ please CCP?
Nam Noissim
Red Lobsters Unilateral
#490 - 2011-10-27 01:18:41 UTC
Why do I stay out of 0.0? Simple.

1. The meta game: If you want in a corp, you have to give your full API key most of the time so that someone can:
- Read all your messages and look for you spying
- See all your assets and tally their worth to see if you have ill gotten gains
- See how much money you have to see if you've stolen it from someone or given it away
- bla bla bla.
No one needs to know that I have a single missile in XD-34Q. Or where i have caches of ships. Spying is a huge problem for corps, and I understand that. I am NOT saying this is an issue CCP can or should fix, I am simply stating it as a fact. I do not wish to participate in the meta game. I do not wish for an attacker to know exactly what I can and cannot fly and fit. I do not wish to be spied on in real life for the 'safety of the corp'. It's a social problem and it is, by far, the biggest thing keeping me out of both WH and 0.0 space.

2. 0.0 drama: Again, a social issue that CCP can't really address. People will be people, and they will make mistakes I view as foolish.

3. Insecure cash flow without *lots* of friends. Let's face it, if you wanna take on dreddit, goons, PL, the russians, etc, you need a LOT of friends, because they have a lot of members. Moreover, if you just want to take a system in the middle of the drone regions, someone will see you on dotlan and come kill you *just* to take what you've got. In WH space, they can try this, but because they have 24 hours to kill you, more often than not a POS with stront in it is a sufficient deterrent. Or at least it was when I was doing WHs, maybe attackers have gotten more persistent. The ability of a 1,000 man army to come crush a little 10 man group is just frustrating. I'd be happy to join an alliance or something similar, but see problems 1 and 2 when it comes to why I don't.

tl;dr: People problems keep me out of 0.0. It's sandbox game, and the lowest common denominator makes leaders so edgy (and I cannot say unjustifiably) that the several hundred bad apples ruin it for the rest of us.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#491 - 2011-10-27 06:52:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Malcanis wrote:

Believe me, I'm sympathetic to the notion that 0.0 would be all the better for fewer "blobs", but the fact is, they're an inevitable effect of having a large, highly connected volume of space.


They are an inevitable effect because they are needed for shooting structures. Not to mention null warfare now is mostly about having a bigger blob than the other guy.

Legit PVEing in null happens less and less and robs small gang roams of their targets.

edit: CCP: do remove local from null. Maybe that way we could catch some bots.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#492 - 2011-10-27 06:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Malcanis wrote:

It was a horrible vast ISK fountain.


But it was the wrong isk fountain to strike.

March rabbit wrote:


Real problem of 0.0: too low risk for rewards you get there. That's why goons plag in empire (too much money and too low fun in 0.0), that's why bots, that's why shiny ships with deadspace modules even for ratting.....


Ugh

If you want higher risk, try being in some other alliance than the power blocks..

This is why the recent changes (1 year+ of them) have been bad. Soundwaves "imbalanced rewards" just got way out of hand. Soundwaves changes tend to have opposite effect than they are intended to. I would find that funny if I wasn't so angry.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

pussnheels
Viziam
#493 - 2011-10-27 08:35:19 UTC
It isn't only CCP that hasto do something to get more people into nullsec, the large powerblocs are partly to blame for this aswell

And should if they really want to become selfsufficient , become more open to other aspect of the game or rethink the concept that siize means everything

A example: how many systems are there being claimed but are other wise unused , many , alot ?
I can completly understand when a alliance wants to hold on to a strategic important system ( a chokepoint , or a low sec entrance) thats isonly normal
Why don't they allow small and medium size alliances to claim those systems , they have the luxury to pick corporations / alliances of their choosing , if they have the power to project their blob to the other side of the eve universe so they can project that power into a neighbouring constellation if they don't like those neighbours anymore

Yes there are alliances that rent out systems but most of the times it is just a way to gangrape that renting corp/ alliance

There probably more advantages into this than disadvantages for the alliance that controls the region
they create a sort of buffer/ early warning zone of friendly corpporations, they stumulate more trade in the region and they can rely on reinforcement of those independent corporations alliances whos interest it is to help their dominant neighbour

probably sounds a bit to utopian ,but bottom line in my opinion it isn't only CCP alone to make the change alliances need to change aswell

one more point and this will probably get flamed , but limiting the time you can afkcloak in a system will probably do alot to expand the nimmsec ondustry, e
Either make it fuel based or time based with a equal amount of cooldown time , it is rather lame and UN evelike to go into a enemy system cloak up and then go to work all day just because you can and will make for a miserable eve expirience for your enemies

to local or not to local... let the owning alliance decide if they want local in their systems or not i don't think iit is that hard to create a mechanisme that allows the owning alliance to decide if they want local , local with a time delay or WH like local

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

pussnheels
Viziam
#494 - 2011-10-27 08:36:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
never mind forum ate my wall of text and i am not going to bother to write it down again


Damn ccp fix this



Pro-Tip™: Whenever you put more than 50 words into a post, CTRL-A, CTRL-C, then post.


thx for the tip mate so simple Big smile

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#495 - 2011-10-27 11:49:12 UTC
bump

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#496 - 2011-10-27 12:44:20 UTC
Nam Noissim wrote:
Why do I stay out of 0.0? Simple.

1. The meta game: If you want in a corp, you have to give your full API key most of the time so that someone can:
- Read all your messages and look for you spying
- See all your assets and tally their worth to see if you have ill gotten gains
- See how much money you have to see if you've stolen it from someone or given it away
- bla bla bla.
No one needs to know that I have a single missile in XD-34Q. Or where i have caches of ships. Spying is a huge problem for corps, and I understand that. I am NOT saying this is an issue CCP can or should fix, I am simply stating it as a fact. I do not wish to participate in the meta game. I do not wish for an attacker to know exactly what I can and cannot fly and fit. I do not wish to be spied on in real life for the 'safety of the corp'. It's a social problem and it is, by far, the biggest thing keeping me out of both WH and 0.0 space.


Before it was only a limited API, to show that you weren't an alt in another alliance. (disregarding it would likely be on a different account altogether but I digress.)

You now have customizable API keys and can pick and choose what to divulge for each key.



Quote:
2. 0.0 drama: Again, a social issue that CCP can't really address. People will be people, and they will make mistakes I view as foolish.


I hate to break this to you, but you are role playing in eve. Always. Even when you don't think you are. You are a ship, in a corp, in an alliance fighting another. You hold sov or you don't. Either way you're playing a role that affects the game universe itself from a storyline perspective.

Part of that includes backstabbing, spying, scamming, triumph and failure. It isn't drama it's social interaction which is the cornerstone of an MMO.

You can have the same "drama" in hisec.

Quote:
3. Insecure cash flow without *lots* of friends. Let's face it, if you wanna take on dreddit, goons, PL, the russians, etc, you need a LOT of friends, because they have a lot of members. Moreover, if you just want to take a system in the middle of the drone regions, someone will see you on dotlan and come kill you *just* to take what you've got. In WH space, they can try this, but because they have 24 hours to kill you, more often than not a POS with stront in it is a sufficient deterrent. Or at least it was when I was doing WHs, maybe attackers have gotten more persistent. The ability of a 1,000 man army to come crush a little 10 man group is just frustrating. I'd be happy to join an alliance or something similar, but see problems 1 and 2 when it comes to why I don't.


There is NPC space all over 0.0. There are many, MANY solo players in null that do their own thing. The difference is that you need to play smart and use your head. Nobody is going to hold your hand. It's challenging and keeps you on your toes.

Not every system, even under the umbrella of a coalition, is claimed. Many aren't and even those that are claimed are often neglected and rarely visited if ever. Yes, the -.5 to -1 systems are often watched closely, duh. However I pass through countless "unclaimed" systems all the time.

Not every alliance will send a 1,000 strong capfleet after a lone POS, and yes at times there are unfair things that happen, but it's part of the game. Empires fall, power doesn't last forever. Look at my alliance, trust me I can attest to that.

Quote:

tl;dr: People problems keep me out of 0.0. It's sandbox game, and the lowest common denominator makes leaders so edgy (and I cannot say unjustifiably) that the several hundred bad apples ruin it for the rest of us.


Stop letting others rule the game you play.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#497 - 2011-10-27 12:47:44 UTC
Anyone tried getting a whole bunch of small alliance to blue each other then move into NPC space with intention of moving into a system?

Swarm of alliances. Smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#498 - 2011-10-27 12:51:11 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Anyone tried getting a whole bunch of small alliance to blue each other then move into NPC space with intention of moving into a system?

Swarm of alliances. Smile



After the fall of BoB/IT that's what happened and many still hold space in Delve.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
#499 - 2011-10-27 13:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: MaiLina KaTar
pussnheels wrote:
It isn't only CCP that hasto do something to get more people into nullsec, the large powerblocs are partly to blame for this aswell

And should if they really want to become selfsufficient , become more open to other aspect of the game or rethink the concept that siize means everything
...

No. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Players are blobbing in nullsec because it is by far the most viable and efficient tactic. Eve's game mechanics foster such behaviour to the point where it's a prerequisite if you're looking to maintain presence in 0.0.
Since it's impossible for smaller entities to hide from and sidestep the big ones, there are only two options if you want to stay:

  1. Merge with a bigger group.
  2. Form an even larger group.

The absolute lack of any need to scout your surroundings and build infrastructure that allows you to monitor them condenses the "vast and open" space that 0.0 is supposed to be down to very few points of interest: Chokes and settlements. And on these POIs you can only be a successful defender or attacker if you bring more ships than the other party.
Severian Carnifex
#500 - 2011-10-27 16:03:05 UTC
bump