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The solution to cloaky campers

Author
Vicata Heth
Krab Control
#1 - 2013-02-22 13:26:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vicata Heth
This is a broken mechanic for multiple reasons that I won't go into. You know what they are, I know what they are, anyone who's spent time in nullsec knows how broken it is, and why.

Here's a simple solution. Implement an in game module, function, or whatever, to detect when a player is afk. Maybe have an icon next to a player when he's afk, that indicates that he's afk.

You could even go further and add this to the watch list feature. IE: you can view whether people on your watch list are afk or not. This would prevent people being able to see if half of local is afk at a glance. And it would require some preparation (adding a cloaky camper to watch list) to use.

This has no major drawbacks like some of the other proposed solutions. It fixes something that is slowly but surely killing nullsec as everyone and their brother gets more and more cloaky alts, to camp more and more of the ratting systems. It requires no mechanic changes, so there are no potential balance issues.

Problem solved.

Do you like botters? I'm going to assume you said no.
Why don't you like botters? Because they're getting some sort of in game benefit while not actually playing the game?
Guess what? A cloaky camper gets in game benefit while not actually playing the game.
What benefits can one have while afk you ask?

Well say I wanted to start a war with someone. We all know the best way to attack someone is where they make their money. AFK cloaky camping does exactly that. Without you being at the computer, you are stopping someone else from making isk.

I already know your argument to this, "If I'm not at my computer, I can't kill you". True, now how do I know whether or not you're at your computer? I don't. You know when I'm at my computer though, because you can see me ratting. Therefore the advantage is 100% in your hands. And there's nothing I can do about it.

That is a broken mechanic. It's as broken as tracking dreads. It's as broken as the original doomsday was. It's as broken as the original FW changes were.

If this broken mechanic is not fixed, one day I will be able to failcascade an entire alliance by myself with my army of cloaky alts. An alliance that makes no isk is a dead alliance.
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations
#2 - 2013-02-22 13:32:50 UTC
I'm posting to confirm the dangers of AFK cloakers!! I was killed by one... :(

Errr, wait a second. AFK... how did they kill me?
Err not AFK, just cloaked.


What was the problem you are trying to fix?

One of my accounts lives in a WH. No local so no problem. And I thought NS was where all the big, tough PVP'ers lived!! LOL
Vicata Heth
Krab Control
#3 - 2013-02-22 13:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vicata Heth
Onomerous wrote:
I'm posting to confirm the dangers of AFK cloakers!! I was killed by one... :(

Errr, wait a second. AFK... how did they kill me?
Err not AFK, just cloaked.


What was the problem you are trying to fix?

One of my accounts lives in a WH. No local so no problem. And I thought NS was where all the big, tough PVP'ers lived!! LOL


You were killed by someone who you thought was afk, because you had no means to determine whether or not they were afk. I'm not trying to prevent cloaky ships from having their advantages, nor am I trying to prevent them from killing you. I use cloaky ships primarily, and all of the previously proposed solutions have major drawbacks that I personally would not want. This solution has none of those drawbacks, and stops someone who's AFK from having an effect on the game. Problem solved.

Counter troll: you were not killed by someone who was cloaked. Someone who is cloaked is unable to target you.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-02-22 13:37:27 UTC
Vicata Heth wrote:
Onomerous wrote:
I'm posting to confirm the dangers of AFK cloakers!! I was killed by one... :(

Errr, wait a second. AFK... how did they kill me?
Err not AFK, just cloaked.


What was the problem you are trying to fix?

One of my accounts lives in a WH. No local so no problem. And I thought NS was where all the big, tough PVP'ers lived!! LOL


You were killed by someone who you thought was afk, because you had no means to determine whether or not they were afk. I'm not trying to prevent cloaky ships from having their advantages, nor am I trying to prevent them from killing you. I use cloaky ships primarily, and all of the previously proposed solutions have major drawbacks that I personally would not want. This solution has none of those drawbacks, and stops someone who's AFK from having an effect on the game. Problem solved.

Counter troll: you were not killed by someone who was cloaked. Someone who is cloaked is unable to target you.


I'd offer a rebuttal but you're probably too dense to get it anyway.
Vicata Heth
Krab Control
#5 - 2013-02-22 13:38:49 UTC
Col Arran wrote:
Vicata Heth wrote:
Onomerous wrote:
I'm posting to confirm the dangers of AFK cloakers!! I was killed by one... :(

Errr, wait a second. AFK... how did they kill me?
Err not AFK, just cloaked.


What was the problem you are trying to fix?

One of my accounts lives in a WH. No local so no problem. And I thought NS was where all the big, tough PVP'ers lived!! LOL


You were killed by someone who you thought was afk, because you had no means to determine whether or not they were afk. I'm not trying to prevent cloaky ships from having their advantages, nor am I trying to prevent them from killing you. I use cloaky ships primarily, and all of the previously proposed solutions have major drawbacks that I personally would not want. This solution has none of those drawbacks, and stops someone who's AFK from having an effect on the game. Problem solved.

Counter troll: you were not killed by someone who was cloaked. Someone who is cloaked is unable to target you.


I'd offer a rebuttal but you're probably too dense to get it anyway.


Thank you for the bump, it really helps to get this thread noticed.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#6 - 2013-02-22 14:15:38 UTC
The waves of "trolls" will be here to prove you wrong and bump this thread for a few days. Just long enough for a new one to be proven wrong.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#7 - 2013-02-22 14:21:03 UTC
Local is the problem, it produces too much intel.
No one has EVER been killed by an AFK player.
Fly in a fleet with multiple players to reduce the chance of being attacked.
HTFU
Try high sec if you want to feel safe all the time.
If you want a mechanic to tell if someone is AFK then we would need a mechanic to tell when someone is mining, running anomalies, sitting in station, in a pos bubble, or what ever they are doing.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Weasel Juice
Mayhem and Destruction
#8 - 2013-02-22 14:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Weasel Juice
This topic again.

Quote:
This is a broken mechanic for multiple reasons that I won't go into. You know what they are, I know what they are, anyone who's spent time in nullsec knows how broken it is, and why.


Way to start an idea threat. Assume that you know everybody what your thoughts are, and blindly assume they must be correct. We can't even argue with you, since we don't know what your reasoning is. Is that how you win arguments?


An AFK cloaky cannot point and blow up your ship, that would require him being ON his keyboard.

It's the fact that you cant make isk without paying attention and being alert that is your issue. Guess what, you moved into 0.0, and would like it to be the safe haven that is highsec. Instead of asking game mechanics to change, I'd recommend you first try and adapt to the game.

In Wormholes we don't even get to know whether somebody is local or not. The threat does not come from a name in your local chat, but from ships being out there to gank us. How do we deal with it? D-Scan, eyes and attention. Constantly.

Why does this work for us? Because we chose to live there, and see the threat of ganks as a challenge to overcome. (Well technically it's actually that we live there for the PvP, but anyway).
You chose to live in nullsec. Figure out the rest yourself.
Kate stark
#9 - 2013-02-22 14:29:09 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Local is the problem, it produces too much intel.


arguably true.
i challenge any one to enter a system, scan down, and tackle a mining ship before it can warp to a pos.
i'll wager it can't be done on a large enough proportion of attempts for it to be anything but luck.

local is a powerful tool.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.

Vicata Heth
Krab Control
#10 - 2013-02-22 14:29:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vicata Heth
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Local is the problem, it produces too much intel.
No one has EVER been killed by an AFK player.
Fly in a fleet with multiple players to reduce the chance of being attacked.
HTFU
Try high sec if you want to feel safe all the time.
If you want a mechanic to tell if someone is AFK then we would need a mechanic to tell when someone is mining, running anomalies, sitting in station, in a pos bubble, or what ever they are doing.


How is me having to rat in a fleet (which drastically reduces income for multiple reasons) because of one person cloaked in local, not at their computer, anywhere near balanced? Not only that, but it's nowhere near effective for multiple reasons.

Ratting ships are at a major disadvantage to PvP ships. A cloaky ship can fit a cyno, and a titan can bridge a fleet on top of your group and kill you. Instead of finding a way to counter cloaky campers, instead you found a way to give them more kills in one shot.

STFU

High sec is more dangerous than nullsec.

You already have mechanics to tell when someone is mining, running anomalies, sitting in station, in a pos bubble, or whatever they are doing. It's called dscan and common sense. Now give me mechanics to determine when someone is afk. You have what you want, it's only fair I get what I want.

Troll better next time.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#11 - 2013-02-22 14:40:55 UTC
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#12 - 2013-02-22 14:58:17 UTC
Vicata Heth wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Local is the problem, it produces too much intel.
No one has EVER been killed by an AFK player.
Fly in a fleet with multiple players to reduce the chance of being attacked.
HTFU
Try high sec if you want to feel safe all the time.
If you want a mechanic to tell if someone is AFK then we would need a mechanic to tell when someone is mining, running anomalies, sitting in station, in a pos bubble, or what ever they are doing.


How is me having to rat in a fleet (which drastically reduces income for multiple reasons) because of one person cloaked in local, not at their computer, anywhere near balanced? Not only that, but it's nowhere near effective for multiple reasons.

Ratting ships are at a major disadvantage to PvP ships. A cloaky ship can fit a cyno, and a titan can bridge a fleet on top of your group and kill you. Instead of finding a way to counter cloaky campers, instead you found a way to give them more kills in one shot.

STFU

High sec is more dangerous than nullsec.

You already have mechanics to tell when someone is mining, running anomalies, sitting in station, in a pos bubble, or whatever they are doing. It's called dscan and common sense. Now give me mechanics to determine when someone is afk. You have what you want, it's only fair I get what I want.

Troll better next time.

Who is trolling?
Yes you should have to rat in a fleet in null sec, it is no mans land and can be conquered by an alliance which is a group of corporations who's also happens to be a group of players who work towards generally the same goal.
The mechanic to tell what someone is doing is d-scan and commons sense hmm I thought is was local. But they will never tell me if they are a bait ship or not.
If high sec is more dangerous than null then there is a problem with null.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#13 - 2013-02-22 15:48:35 UTC
Another NullBear who thinks that he should be able to rat or mine in total safety, and is all mad because the intel he is receiveing from local cannot tell him wether a cloaked vessel is a threat or not.


Seriously, despite this being suche a carebear idea, it still wont work.....

A cloaker waits at your fave ratting spot, waits till he has the AFK flag, the OP then decides that its safe to come out and gets WTFBBQed. he then crys to CCP because an AFK flagged ship assploded him.

He also crys to his mom about the nasty bullies in cloaks.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#14 - 2013-02-22 15:59:22 UTC
Vicata Heth wrote:

Lots and lots of bullshit.

WhateverUgh



What I would like to know is : why do people, who show this level of cowardice, move to nullsec in the first place?
If you can't handle this level of risk then maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be living there.Idea
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-02-22 16:27:08 UTC
Let's just get rid of local, then people won't have to be psychologically attacked by a red hovering in local 24/7.

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.

Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#16 - 2013-02-22 16:32:25 UTC
The solution to AFK cloaky campers is 50% ethanol, applied liberally to the people worried about them until they are no longer worried.

Honestly, it's stunning how quickly people disappear when someone they don't recognize shows up in a random nullsec system. Is it normal to mount cloaking devices on ratting ships?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#17 - 2013-02-22 16:38:32 UTC
Anyway is right to continuoslly adress this issue. I mean: people go cloacked when using a cloacking device... Clearly is a broken mechanic, cannot be just desiggned so and I'm sure CCP is not informed about this so is good to report the problem.

Any of you guys tried to fill a bug report?



Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#18 - 2013-02-22 16:50:59 UTC
I think my solution linked above works well - it means that anyone actually trying to catch someone has to be somewhat strategic about it, reduces the threat impact of AFK cloakers but doesn't give ratters an easy ride as they actually have to actively monitor for threats but also gives them the tools to better manage the potential threat rather than remove it entirely.
Raven DarkSouless
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-22 18:30:46 UTC
you really want a solution..... force log off after 15min without input,simple camera pan to reset timer, there takes care of cloaky, gate camps, and afk miners we can all be happy,
Mag's
Azn Empire
#20 - 2013-02-22 19:00:06 UTC
Vicata Heth wrote:
This has no major drawbacks
Except that it is in fact, a boost to psychological warfare. Nah, no problem at all. Roll

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

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