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So i wanna mine in lowsec...
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#81 - 2013-02-19 14:36:46 UTC
Zenito wrote:
This thread's about low-sec mining, what's with all the figures for high-sec mining?
60,000,000+ per hour on one character works nicely for me Cool

+60M in high sec is certainly possible. But the only "safe" way to mine in Low is with a venture. Procurer or even Skiff is just to slow and easy to catch. you will get caught and you will lose it. If not while mining, while getting the ore/minerals back to high sec to sell. With a venture you can get in and out fairly safely with a very high chance of survival. But even with max skills and drones a Venture will only do about 8-10M in low sec.

This is why so many High sec stats have been mentioned. Even considering the average high sec income of 20-25M per hour compared to 8-10M per hour mining in low sec. You add significant risk, for less than half the income. if you try to mine low sec in even a Skiff your survival rate drops huge, even with warp stabs, as most pirates will assume anyone bold enough to mine in low sec will be using 2 warp stabs. They simply come after you with 3 points and you are dead.

Sure in theory, with Hed and Hem at the top of the ore charts right now, mining in low sec looks like good isk. But the loss in m3/hr to actually do it safely drops your income below that of a high sec miner. Even if you do find a quit system where you can mine in a procurer with out constantly getting unwanted attention.

- mining barges are very easy to scan down.
-mining barges are very slow to align and warp
- mining barges, even with a full rack of warp stab are very easy to tackle
-mining barges fit for tank and GTFO have significantly lower yield than max yield high sec mining barges

the fact is although low sec mining is possible, the risks are far to great when you compare the income to what you could make in high sec.
Moxie Monique
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-02-19 16:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Moxie Monique
The prevailing wisdom is it is not worth mining in Low-sec.

Yes, the minerals are more valuable, but you have to factor in the fact that in Hi-sec you can mine mostly afk 23/7 without interruption. In Low-sec you have to be watching like a hawk, and it's very easy for your mining to be disrupted. You also have to balance your ability to survive vrs your yield in Low-sec, which means you will either lose ships, or you will lose yield. In Hi-sec you can just fit for max yield.

Ultimately the loss in mining time and yield in Low-sec outweigh the increased profits.
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#83 - 2013-02-20 00:21:52 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Zenito wrote:
This thread's about low-sec mining, what's with all the figures for high-sec mining?
60,000,000+ per hour on one character works nicely for me Cool

+60M in high sec is certainly possible. But the only "safe" way to mine in Low is with a venture. Procurer or even Skiff is just to slow and easy to catch. you will get caught and you will lose it. If not while mining, while getting the ore/minerals back to high sec to sell. With a venture you can get in and out fairly safely with a very high chance of survival. But even with max skills and drones a Venture will only do about 8-10M in low sec.

This is why so many High sec stats have been mentioned. Even considering the average high sec income of 20-25M per hour compared to 8-10M per hour mining in low sec. You add significant risk, for less than half the income. if you try to mine low sec in even a Skiff your survival rate drops huge, even with warp stabs, as most pirates will assume anyone bold enough to mine in low sec will be using 2 warp stabs. They simply come after you with 3 points and you are dead.

Sure in theory, with Hed and Hem at the top of the ore charts right now, mining in low sec looks like good isk. But the loss in m3/hr to actually do it safely drops your income below that of a high sec miner. Even if you do find a quit system where you can mine in a procurer with out constantly getting unwanted attention.

- mining barges are very easy to scan down.
-mining barges are very slow to align and warp
- mining barges, even with a full rack of warp stab are very easy to tackle
-mining barges fit for tank and GTFO have significantly lower yield than max yield high sec mining barges

the fact is although low sec mining is possible, the risks are far to great when you compare the income to what you could make in high sec.


I am tired of people talking about income figures like this. Get your facts straight, use a spreadsheet or eve isk per hour but don't tell nonsense. 60mil+ on one character for high sec mining is just a lie.

The top income, with orca support, perfect skills and best implants in a Hulk is around 20mil isk per hour. And that's not your average income because it's not possible or effective to only cherry pick Kernite/Scordite.

In low sec, with orca support and perfect setup the top income (for Hemorphite) is around 27mil.
Kate stark
#84 - 2013-02-20 00:31:05 UTC
Debra Tao wrote:
I am tired of people talking about income figures like this. Get your facts straight, use a spreadsheet or eve isk per hour but don't tell nonsense. 60mil+ on one character for high sec mining is just a lie.

The top income, with orca support, perfect skills and best implants in a Hulk is around 20mil isk per hour. And that's not your average income because it's not possible or effective to only cherry pick Kernite/Scordite.

In low sec, with orca support and perfect setup the top income (for Hemorphite) is around 27mil.


psst, it's actually 39.69m isk/hour. in high sec for a perfect hulk with perfect boosts cherrypicking and short cycling with 100% accuracy.
and 48.51m isk/hour for hed, all things being equal.

however 60m is just plain wrong by any calculation.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-02-20 00:39:10 UTC
Cherry picking makes no sense. That's like saying that my trading income is huge because it took me 1 sec to sell an item for a 10mil profit... A correct average of the income in that case must take into account the search and travel that you have to do to only mine the best ore.

Anyway i don't know where you got your numbers but i trust isk per hour more than you ;)
Kate stark
#86 - 2013-02-20 00:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
Debra Tao wrote:
Cherry picking makes no sense. That's like saying that my trading income is huge because it took me 1 sec to sell an item for a 10mil profit... A correct average of the income in that case must take into account the search and travel that you have to do to only mine the best ore.

Anyway i don't know where you got your numbers but i trust isk per hour more than you ;)


my hulk's tooltip multiplied by the value of the ore. basic maths, really.
also cherry picking in high sec is easy, right click warp fleet. done.

long version: (seconds per hour/cycle time in seconds) * yield per cycle = ore per hour. my maths gets a perfect hulk to be ~6.3 jetcans per hour.

jetcan of scord is 6.3mil isk. hence 6.3 jetcans of scord is worth whatever value i said earlier which i've forgotten and can't be bothered to go and copy.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-02-20 00:47:15 UTC
Yeah... but cherry picking only high yield ores you gotta find them first, then approach and hope that someone hasn't mine there. Not to mention the fact that mining barges are slows.

My spreadsheet still disagrees with you, as does EVE IPH.
Kate stark
#88 - 2013-02-20 00:49:30 UTC
Debra Tao wrote:
Yeah... but cherry picking only high yield ores you gotta find them first, then approach and hope that someone hasn't mine there. Not to mention the fact that mining barges are slows.

My spreadsheet still disagrees with you, as does EVE IPH.


*shrug* these are the numbers i used to prove that the devblog was incorrect when the mining barge changes were announced so ccp indirectly said they were correct.

scordite isn't hard to find, you just warp to a belt.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-02-20 00:51:13 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
*shrug* these are the numbers i used to prove that the devblog was incorrect when the mining barge changes were announced so ccp indirectly said they were correct.



heu wut ? Lol
Kate stark
#90 - 2013-02-20 00:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
Debra Tao wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
*shrug* these are the numbers i used to prove that the devblog was incorrect when the mining barge changes were announced so ccp indirectly said they were correct.



heu wut ? Lol


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=140094&p=5

check the dev blog itself (linked in the op).

THIS
is the relevant post https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1764945#post1764945

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Eloy Hernandez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-02-20 19:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Eloy Hernandez
You know, I tried lowsec mining like 5 days back compared to highsec mining. I was mining azure plagioclase in highsec and pristine jaspet in lowsec (.3) and yes mining in highsec made me a little bit more, but if you go into max refining I think you should make a lot more isk refining the nocxium out of jaspet and it would be worth lowsec mining. Just my thought, OP could make more isk lowsec mining with refining and selling the nocxium. Though I do recommend a venture to mine, its fast reliable and cheap.

P.S lowsec is more fun do to the risk then dull afk highsec mining. Only afk mine when you're busy doing something imo.


Edit: So I compared a full ore hold (venture) of pristine jaspet to azure plagioclase. The jaspet gave me 1.1mil worth and the azure gave me 800k, but with the time added in to jump to a lowsec (.3) zone and get the jaspet then jump back to my base I ended up getting about the same ore worth for both in the end, but like I said before, if I had max refining it would definitely be worth getting the nocxium out of jaspet.
Kate stark
#92 - 2013-02-20 19:37:53 UTC
Eloy Hernandez wrote:
You know, I tried lowsec mining like 5 days back compared to highsec mining. I was mining azure plagioclase in highsec and pristine jaspet in lowsec (.3) and yes mining in highsec made me a little bit more, about 5k difference, but if you go into max refining I think you should make a lot more isk refining the nocxium out of jaspet and it would be worth lowsec mining. Just my thought, OP could make more isk lowsec mining with refining and selling the nocxium. Though I do recommend a venture to mine, its fast reliable and cheap.

P.S lowsec is more fun do to the risk then dull afk highsec mining. Only afk mine when you're busy doing something imo.


yeah you're just totally ignoring the fact that a venture won't mine any where near the quantity of ore a retriever will....

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Eloy Hernandez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-02-20 19:47:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Eloy Hernandez
True, but like OP im also fairly new eve and that just my thought, all I have atm is venture, well ill have a retriever soon and ill probably do the math then, with what I got, but yeah as a new player I got more monies from lowsec hehe, people were so nice I probably could've afked mined haha.

P.S anyone got thoughts/tips on drug manufacturing?

Edit: nvm, ill see if I can find a forum for it. im sure there are Big smile
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2013-02-20 22:46:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Styth spiting
Debra Tao wrote:
Cherry picking makes no sense. That's like saying that my trading income is huge because it took me 1 sec to sell an item for a 10mil profit... A correct average of the income in that case must take into account the search and travel that you have to do to only mine the best ore.

Anyway i don't know where you got your numbers but i trust isk per hour more than you ;)


A miners isk/hour will be less affected by the inability to find belts to mine in high sec compared to the issues involved with mining in low sec.. When figuring out your isk/hour you need to remember that doesn't simply include your yield per cycle, but includes risk, hauling times both to station and market, isk loss from not using max yield setups, isk lost using cheaper mining ships, drones, orcas / rorquals, mindlink implants, mining boosts, losses of ships, delays being trapped in station and so on.

You will also be "cherry picking" anywhere you're mining be it low/null/high/whs and instead are better off determining the maximum possible yields and then subtract based on the situation and coming up with an average.


Hulk yields, orca boosts, and yield amounts generated using EFT. M3 to isk values from fuzzwork.

Hulk with perfect skills, perfect orca + mindlink, mining drones II fitted for yield will yield 3073m3/minute in a perfect situation, 184,380m3/hour.



type ..... isk/m3 ..... isk/hour
Scordite 233.22 - 43,001,104
Pyroxeres 212.3 - 39,143,874
Kernite 209.96 - 38,712,425
Plagioclase 201.81 - 37,209,728
Veldspar 178.37 - 32,887,861
Omber 163.7 - 30,183,006

Hedbergite 279.33 - 51,502,865
Hemorphite 270.04 - 49,789,975
Jaspet 250.25 - 46,141,095

Mercoxit 377.91 - 38,712,425
Bistot 204.21 - 37,652,240
Crokite 204.78 - 37,757,336
Dark Ochre 190.54 - 35,131,765
Arkonor 268.21 - 30,183,006
Gneiss 101.64 - 18,740,383
Spodumain 81.87 - 15,095,191


Overall low sec mats beat high sec but that's assuming you are using a max yield hulk and implants, are able to use mining drones, never have anyone come into system causing you to stop and also have an orca and 1.5B isk implant floating in space/POS hauling from time to time.

If you were to drop the 2 MLUII for tank you would really be making only
Hedbergite 279.33 - 43,646,495
Hemorphite 270.04 - 42,194,894
Jaspet 250.25 - 39,102,622

Dropping mining drones also decreases the isk/hour another 8% - 12%.
Zenito
Lekhantsi Salvage Depot
#95 - 2013-02-21 17:40:37 UTC
Eloy Hernandez wrote:


P.S anyone got thoughts/tips on drug manufacturing?



Contact me in game Blink

Zenitoka Katanga

Clan Chieftain

"A fair bargain leaves both sides unhappy."
Aria Ning
White Rabbit Industries
#96 - 2013-02-22 02:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Ning
Styth spiting wrote:
Debra Tao wrote:
Cherry picking makes no sense. That's like saying that my trading income is huge because it took me 1 sec to sell an item for a 10mil profit... A correct average of the income in that case must take into account the search and travel that you have to do to only mine the best ore.

Anyway i don't know where you got your numbers but i trust isk per hour more than you ;)


A miners isk/hour will be less affected by the inability to find belts to mine in high sec compared to the issues involved with mining in low sec.. When figuring out your isk/hour you need to remember that doesn't simply include your yield per cycle, but includes risk, hauling times both to station and market, isk loss from not using max yield setups, isk lost using cheaper mining ships, drones, orcas / rorquals, mindlink implants, mining boosts, losses of ships, delays being trapped in station and so on.

You will also be "cherry picking" anywhere you're mining be it low/null/high/whs and instead are better off determining the maximum possible yields and then subtract based on the situation and coming up with an average.


Hulk yields, orca boosts, and yield amounts generated using EFT. M3 to isk values from fuzzwork.

Hulk with perfect skills, perfect orca + mindlink, mining drones II fitted for yield will yield 3073m3/minute in a perfect situation, 184,380m3/hour.



type ..... isk/m3 ..... isk/hour
Scordite 233.22 - 43,001,104
Pyroxeres 212.3 - 39,143,874
Kernite 209.96 - 38,712,425
Plagioclase 201.81 - 37,209,728
Veldspar 178.37 - 32,887,861
Omber 163.7 - 30,183,006

Hedbergite 279.33 - 51,502,865
Hemorphite 270.04 - 49,789,975
Jaspet 250.25 - 46,141,095

Mercoxit 377.91 - 38,712,425
Bistot 204.21 - 37,652,240
Crokite 204.78 - 37,757,336
Dark Ochre 190.54 - 35,131,765
Arkonor 268.21 - 30,183,006
Gneiss 101.64 - 18,740,383
Spodumain 81.87 - 15,095,191


Overall low sec mats beat high sec but that's assuming you are using a max yield hulk and implants, are able to use mining drones, never have anyone come into system causing you to stop and also have an orca and 1.5B isk implant floating in space/POS hauling from time to time.

If you were to drop the 2 MLUII for tank you would really be making only
Hedbergite 279.33 - 43,646,495
Hemorphite 270.04 - 42,194,894
Jaspet 250.25 - 39,102,622

Dropping mining drones also decreases the isk/hour another 8% - 12%.


I am actually just curious, why is ore such as Omber less isk/hr than Veldspar? Is it due to their m3 size?
Kate stark
#97 - 2013-02-22 08:38:58 UTC
Aria Ning wrote:
I am actually just curious, why is ore such as Omber less isk/hr than Veldspar? Is it due to their m3 size?

short answer: because it just is.

long answer: because the minerals contained in veld are worth more than the minerals contained in omber.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#98 - 2013-02-22 11:07:10 UTC
Aria Ning wrote:

I am actually just curious, why is ore such as Omber less isk/hr than Veldspar? Is it due to their m3 size?



http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/

You mine a consistent m3 per minute. so the isk/m3 is the important value to pay attention to, when mining. (you'll also lose bits of cycles on really large rocks, but that's not particularly important with strip miners. More important when using regular mining lasers on, say, Spod)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

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