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CSM 8 - Vote for yourself, choose direct democracy and Night Beagle

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Author
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#101 - 2013-02-19 08:27:50 UTC
I for one believe that we have a great lineup of WH candidates :)

The world needs you to stop being boring!

chris elliot
Hateful Intent
Hostile Intervention
#102 - 2013-02-19 22:45:36 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:
I for one believe that we have a great lineup of WH candidates :)



Once you stop running that will probably be the case.
SojournerRover
Explorer Corps
#103 - 2013-02-20 01:03:59 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Night Beagle wrote:
I for one believe that we have a great lineup of WH candidates :)



Once you stop running that will probably be the case.


Just can't help yourself can you?

[b][u]ROVER[/u] (REDRUM)[/b]

Arox Dax
Empire of Decadence
Empire of Decadence.
#104 - 2013-02-20 03:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Arox Dax
Where to start with this thread,


You ask us (the WH community) to vote for you, you say you aren't being political but diplomatic, you spout a lot of rhetoric but very little substance.


You set your whole "campaign" on the premisé that it's about the platform and not the candidate, you try to distance yourself from politics, you seem to avoid or completely refute that it should be about your own personality and social skills, your ability to interact, not only with the community, but also with CCP themselves, you don't even seem to listen to advice, even from someone currently in the position to which you seem to aspire.


To me, you seem to be missing the point entirely, this is all about politics, it is about leadership and intestinal fortitude, I, as a member of the wh community (I would never presume to speak for them as a whole) want someone that can speak fluently, clearly, with knowledge and experience and with some charisma, that is my personal opinion, I would also like my desired candidate to show some initiative and be able to move quickly and decisively when required.


Further to the above, IMHO you have not reached any of those standards, you are looking to a computer programme to make your decision on which topic to discuss, you appear to be ignoring the advice from several people in this thread (I'm not talking about the trolls) you also seem woefully lacking in an ability to even defend yourself, apparently having to depend on the White Knight of Sojourner Rover to fight the battle for you.


If you want the community to vote for you, get down to the nitty gritty, get your hands dirty, and start being political and show us you have what it takes, sadly, I feel that it is way too late for you to do so, I'm just a grunt in a corp that does some stuff in wormholes, I'm not notable, I'm not special, I don't post much though I read the forums a lot, I'm the sort of person you want to vote for you, but my vote is lost to you.
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#105 - 2013-02-20 10:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Night Beagle
@Aaron Dax To you sir I tell, I respect your opinion. While the main idea is close to what others said, your arguments on who do you want to represent you are in fact the best until now. Again, my respects.

I will comment on two subjects: relying on a software and defending myself.

My proposal is based not on decision took by a software, but on decisions taken by people through a software. The software in itself is merely a tool, and the decisions are taken by the community. Maybe the community is not ready to assume this responsibility, maybe time to explain and show how the idea works in practice is needed. I think that in the period since my intention was announced all the forum users have found about it. All now know that there is such a thing, what can do, and are aware that maybe some limitations apply.

If the person that will end up representing the WH community is now aware of the importance of a good two ways communication system, than my campaign had the best result one could ever wish. I continue to state that is not about me, it is about an idea, and if that idea lives on, then my purpose is served.

I would however state that not all other candidates have shown in the podcast that they are willing to manifest this openness, with some being biased towards representing and communicating with a limited number of players.

On defending myself, I would start with a quote: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Mahatma Gandhi.

When I started this nobody knew my name. Now you all know it.
Some disagreed with my ideas and those have received answers to clear issues without having to rely on somebody to fight my fights.
Some just trolled, and were ignored. I give a special mention to specific troll that I will enjoy replying further :)

Do I need defending? No, because we are all different, with different strong and weak points. Beside being unknown (problem solved) the other thing that was held against me is the lack of social presence. Well, I'm working on it.
You are welcomed to like my posts and follow me on Twitter @NightBeagle

About me being a leader, may I remind you that our current representative is not a alliance or corp leader ingame although he has shown good social and intellectual qualities. We all play the game in our way, and a good alliance leader might not be the best representative, especially given the dictatorial/administrative style that is the preferred way of running alliances these days.
I personally prefer to be represented by somebody who listens instead of the 1% all-knowing person, playing the politician in a game.
About being political, don't you get enough of this when you are afk? The last thing EVE will need is to have political factions :)

Like you Aron Dax, there are many. I was one, and chose to make a step further. If you feel this is a long way, then I will walk that way, but remember, there are more than one way to skin a cat.


@my favorite (troll) supporter Chris Elliot
Your name is one of a famous comedian, so I think you are trying to be at least as funny as him. Well is working, you are becoming a laughing stock :)
As you have shown good potential I am going to help you grow (some) and become better.
Will you be kind and explain the qualities of your desired representative?

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-02-20 20:17:03 UTC
One of the main issues regarding WH life is with the POS.

One of those issues involves SDing inside a POS essentially removing the benefits of hours of labor and doing the worst kind of thing in EvE- Tower shooting.

The general line of thought between all dwellers from C1-C6 is that SDing should only be allowable outside the force field.

Given your corporation

and

Given the support of your corporation CEO

and

Given your corporation's history with self-destructing

I ask

How would you even justify a vote in your direction?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

SojournerRover
Explorer Corps
#107 - 2013-02-20 20:34:42 UTC  |  Edited by: SojournerRover
Vincent Gaines wrote:
One of the main issues regarding WH life is with the POS.

One of those issues involves SDing inside a POS essentially removing the benefits of hours of labor and doing the worst kind of thing in EvE- Tower shooting.

The general line of thought between all dwellers from C1-C6 is that SDing should only be allowable outside the force field.

Given your corporation

and

Given the support of your corporation CEO

and

Given your corporation's history with self-destructing

I ask

How would you even justify a vote in your direction?


It is direct democracy he doesn't get to choose.

Really?
Given the personal vendetta of Talocan transmission lost united against Insidious Design you had no other intension but burning that hole to the ground no matter what we did. 8 active pilots facing 100 active pilots and you have the audacity to bring that up? Could we control the hole, no. We just left EE and the caps we just brought in were unfit. You knew we were very weak and I would do the same thing again because I wouldn't give you the sweat of my ba&&s

You should be embarrassed!

[b][u]ROVER[/u] (REDRUM)[/b]

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-02-20 20:48:31 UTC
SojournerRover wrote:


It is direct democracy he doesn't get to choose.



Again, the views go against the concensus of the WH community.

Quote:

Really?
Given the personal vendetta of Talocan transmission lost united against Insidious Design you had no other intension but burning that hole to the ground no matter what we did. 8 active pilots facing 100 active pilots and you have the audacity to bring that up? Could we control the hole, no. We just left EE and the caps we just brought in were unfit. You knew we were very weak and I would do the same thing again because I wouldn't give you the sweat of my ba&&s

You should be embarrassed!


On the contrary, I'm pretty ok with it. They're just ships, bro. The most it would have done was make my weekend worth it, and make up for missing that Orca kill earlier in the day.

I'm not a diplo, but I think you might want to re-evaluate your thoughts on TL/TU relations.

Lastly, you had the resources to take back the hole. We trapped 90% of our fleet out of the hole in a fit of blood lust next door. We were out for hours with no hole control while 8 of you just sat in your POS.

You made no attempt to engage capitals even with your own.

What it comes down to is having the willingness to fight when everything is on the line. I don't care if you win or lose, but gather your cajones in one hand and your mouse in the other, and hit F1.

You failed in that regard, and thus your corpmates suffer the same stigma.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Bernie Nator
Perkone
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-02-20 20:50:40 UTC
SojournerRover wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
One of the main issues regarding WH life is with the POS.

One of those issues involves SDing inside a POS essentially removing the benefits of hours of labor and doing the worst kind of thing in EvE- Tower shooting.

The general line of thought between all dwellers from C1-C6 is that SDing should only be allowable outside the force field.

Given your corporation

and

Given the support of your corporation CEO

and

Given your corporation's history with self-destructing

I ask

How would you even justify a vote in your direction?


It is direct democracy he doesn't get to choose.

Really?
Given the personal vendetta of Talocan transmission lost united against Insidious Design you had no other intension but burning that hole to the ground no matter what we did. 8 active pilots facing 100 active pilots and you have the audacity to bring that up? Could we control the hole, no. We just left EE and the caps we just brought in were unfit. You knew we were very weak and I would do the same thing again because I wouldn't give you the sweat of my ba&&s

You should be embarrassed!


Have you forgotten that you were invaded because you invaded us first?

Because I haven't.

But I digress. Perhaps we could get the candidate's opinion on it, if he even has one?

Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#110 - 2013-02-20 21:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Night Beagle
Oh yes I do Bernie, I was just enjoying the discussion :)
I like very much to see the tears from your side for being denied some kills. In the end your game play did not worked and you are still sore :) Keep in mid that at that time I was out of game, so I was not involved in that incident.
I could however, from a observer point of view state, that INSID harassed you while being one corp against a whole alliance, while you waited until INSID was again only one corp, barely moving in a hole, with many good players remaining in other alliance corps, thus a vulnerable entity. Your actions were publicly admitted as being a bully steamrolling a smaller corp for reasons of hardfeelings. And when you were denied the bullying...cry for game changes. Let the tears come.

On the issue of what I would do, the answer is simple: the will of the community will be carried to the CSM/CCP. This is the main advantage of my proposal. No personal feelings will guide decisions. Only honest and transparent community will.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Carla Messer
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2013-02-20 21:12:02 UTC
Didn't Insidious Design get kicked from wormholes? Why are they running a candidate now?
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#112 - 2013-02-20 21:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaderift
Night Beagle wrote:
Oh yes I do Bernie, I was just enjoying the discussion :)
I like very much to see the tears from your side for being denied some kills. In the end your game play did not worked and you are still sore :) Keep in mid that at that time I was out of game, so I was not involved in that incident.
I could however, from a observer point of view state, that INSID harassed you while being one corp against a whole alliance, while you waited until INSID was again only one corp, barely moving in a hole, with many good players remaining in other alliance corps, thus a vulnerable entity. Your actions were publicly admitted as being a bully steamrolling a smaller corp for reasons of hardfeelings. And when you were denied the bullying...cry for game changes. Let the tears come.

On the issue of what I would do, the answer is simple: the will of the community will be carried to the CSM/CCP. This is the main advantage of my proposal. No personal feelings will guide decisions. Only honest and transparent community will.



.. Step 1 insid and exhale roll up in to a Talun c5/5 that had been only established about 2 months earlier and even then most of the residents had moved in about 3 weeks prior. coming and setting up a tower with cap support is not harassing its an attempted kicking in of teeth.
Step 2 EE was formed, making it a lot harder to launch retaliation for the attack and what is seen by many in my corp as a betrayal,. So we waited it was only a matter of time till insid would be ripe for the picking, insid leadership seems to not play nice with others on an alliance level.
Step 3 EE breaks apart with post human bite me inc and insid all going sperate ways, lots of bad blood was made during this breakup
Step 4 locate insids new hole and prepare to kick in some teeth of our own, during this time we lets slip to a few allies that we were going to do it. if you think it was a steam roll or mass blobing with TL and talun, both of whom had a score to settle with insid. you should have seen the list of people who wanted to get in on it.

yes we were denied kills but all the wrecks looked very pretty inside a pos shield . But as i have said else where we didn't do it for kills we did it for tears sweet sweet tears. Some of the internal chat logs that were .. acquired during the events were payment enough.

but enough history of events past

i would like to pose a hypothetical situation to you Mr beagle

its the CSM summit you are in a room with the CCP dev team and they present you a list, on that list are 3 ideas for a new pos system, all of them are viable and all of them had been discussed in one form or another over the past years. CCP says that this document and all on it is not for the public, all the PoS ideas and plans are under the NDA but they want your feedback as to help them choose which idea would be best for the community, and where the pros and cons of this system would be in each given type of space. How would you respond to this request of theirs? You cannot poll the public as it is under NDA and they want a reply in a rather short time. What knowledge would you use to make this decision? Would you focus purely on how it would effect worm holes or the game as a whole? Do you feel confident that you would be able to contribute to a conversation of this magnitude constitutively?
Malception
Dutch Rudder Trading Company
#113 - 2013-02-20 21:33:30 UTC
If you're proposinga bit of code to query the userbase and then you take the results of said query to CCP aren't you just a middleman at that point, delivering information to CCP that they could easily gather off the forums?

What exactly do you do here?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TdofRgsCoGU/TE4ZuXxhS7I/AAAAAAAACc8/NDyASjTZBNc/s1600/bobs.jpg
Tecear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#114 - 2013-02-20 22:00:09 UTC
I would like to thank Night Beagle.

This troll campaign of yours always makes my day.

SojournerRover
Explorer Corps
#115 - 2013-02-21 02:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: SojournerRover
[[quote=Phaderift]. Step 1 insid and exhale roll up in to a Talun c5/5 that had been only established about 2 months earlier and even then most of the residents had moved in about 3 weeks prior. coming and setting up a tower with cap support is not harassing its an attempted kicking in of teeth.
Step 2 EE was formed, making it a lot harder to launch retaliation for the attack and what is seen by many in my corp as a betrayal,. So we waited it was only a matter of time till insid would be ripe for the picking, insid leadership seems to not play nice with others on an alliance level.
Step 3 EE breaks apart with post human bite me inc and insid all going sperate ways, lots of bad blood was made during this breakup
Step 4 locate insids new hole and prepare to kick in some teeth of our own, during this time we lets slip to a few allies that we were going to do it. if you think it was a steam roll or mass blobing with TL and talun, both of whom had a score to settle with insid. you should have seen the list of people who wanted to get in on it.

yes we were denied kills but all the wrecks looked very pretty inside a pos shield . But as i have said else where we didn't do it for kills we did it for tears sweet sweet tears. Some of the internal chat logs that were .. acquired during the events were payment enough.

but enough history of events past]


Your knowledge of the history to be kind is lacking at best. Talocan leadership got their feeling hurt when INSID left Talocan. INSID left for several reasons due to the practice of Talocan hiring mercanaries to attack their own corporations to teach them to PVP better. Ask church ownens (Flint Owens), bernie, zariah and Nathan. INSID was the only ones willing to fight so they depended on to us to protect carebear holes. Again the leadership got mad because INSID asked them to consolidate some holes. Yes I ticked Celery off because his corp had 4 active members and he refused to consolidate. Then when we decided to leave, zariah (zed) threatened our hole saying they would boot us out using the corporations INSID recruited into that hole. Ask Kynric. Skyfighters moved out and frozen enterprises folded.

Then there was a constant harrasment of the hole by Talocan and the mercanary corp they put toghether. They brought stealth bombers in to gank haulers. How Brave they were with Bernie and Zed constantly harassing us in the local channel. Then we find out that Talocan had started a game that whoever got the most kills won some sort of prize.

We went into coldmoon destructions hole and harrased them for awhile. What would you do?

Exhale said they wanted to invade Skyfighters and asked us to come along so we said yes. Pay back. Talocan started all of it so you need to get the facts straight.

I have no idea what transmission lost problem is except they are in bed with talocan.
This is all old hat and the major players know exactly what happened. Why you guys can't let it go I have no idea. But has nothing to do with this thread.

Night Beagle is not my alt. Ask Nathan!
Beagle asked me to help promote the idea and that is what I have done. I told him there would be a lot of mudslinging and personal attacks and you people have held up your end.

It is shameful that you are so blinded by hate that you can't even take the idea and think about it.

[b][u]ROVER[/u] (REDRUM)[/b]

Arox Dax
Empire of Decadence
Empire of Decadence.
#116 - 2013-02-21 03:02:56 UTC
SojournerRover wrote:


I have no idea what transmission lost problem is except they are in bed with talocan.
This is all old hat and the major players know exactly what happened. Why you guys can't let it go I have no idea. But has nothing to do with this thread.




Pot, Kettle, Black ??

Ever heard the term "let sleeping dogs lie" ?

This was a thread for someones candidacy to the CSM, however it seems to have been derailed by his White Knight seemingly wanting to vent some steam at long forgotten incidents, and in the matter of this thread, those said incidents are almost as irrelevant as I am !
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#117 - 2013-02-21 04:48:35 UTC
Arox Dax wrote:
Ever heard the term "let sleeping dogs lie" ?

This was a thread for someones candidacy to the CSM, however it seems to have been derailed by his White Knight seemingly wanting to vent some steam at long forgotten incidents, and in the matter of this thread, those said incidents are almost as irrelevant as I am !


I agree with this statement and would ask for both sides (my guys included) to simply let drop the issue of our past history. It's a he said-she said where each side believes their version of events are correct, and it's simply not constructive. Besides, as far as I'm concerned, the debts were paid and the book closed.

Let's turn this conversation back to Night Beagle's candidacy and his platform.

http://www.wormholes.info

Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
#118 - 2013-02-21 07:56:05 UTC
All this bullshit and only one fact remains....




Bane for CSM 8! Twisted

No trolling please

Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#119 - 2013-02-21 09:27:01 UTC
I think I am starting to be convinced to vote Bane for CSM :) Keep doing it.


On the current topics:


@Malception I am proposing a better system than just a forum. One that in the end might eliminate or change the role of CSM.


@Phaderift As you said, in the event of 3 known ideas we will already have the community input, thus making my position a predetermined one.
However, you raise an interesting point. What is a CSM member representing, the whole player community or a limited group, based on some common characteristics. Both options have their ups and downs. If I consider only the voting system used until now, the intention for each CSM member is to represent the whole community, as no separate ballots have been done for WH, 0.0, LS or HS, nor for Alliances/Non allied/NPC corps.
I see myself as representing the community that supports me. If that community is the WH one, then in the larger picture of the game I will support WH interests. However, our interests are not in the scope different than others so, we go back to CSM members representing everyone.

On the issue of previous fights between the corp I am in and other alliances: it's a game. Enjoy the pixels and have fun.

Also, please keep trolling, you never know what interesting ideas might arise form it. Conflict is a great growth driver.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#120 - 2013-02-21 11:22:32 UTC
Asking a serious question then about the system you're attempting to instigate, what if no one uses it? Even ignoring the trolls in this thread, there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming level of support. I'm not getting the sense of pre-1917 Russia here, in other words.

Suppose you ARE elected, and you're behind closed doors with CCP, and you've managed to correctly think ahead on topics they'll discuss. Suppose the votes submitted through your system only give you on the level of a dozen votes per choice, if that. Do you feel that that's enough of a polling pool to represent to the CCP staff? And if not, how do you plan to address that issue, both in and out of the meetings?

http://www.wormholes.info