Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Good evening, CCP

I may be blasphemous here, but
I'd like to point out that our favourite
icon of a hull and everyone's darling
the Rifter is lacking. I'll try not to make
this an essay.


-The Rifter has not the definition
of the Merlin or the Incursus.

-Merlin/Incursus have stellar tanks,
full tackle and very high damage.

-Rifter should be more in line
with the Rupture as a combat ship.

My suggestion:
Tweak it's bonuses slightly with a +2,5% damage bonus
per level for a start.
It should even the odds a bit
without complexities.


Look, guys. I could give you a 30 page essay about the Rifter,
but let's keep this simple.




Oh, and this is from a pvp/solo/smallgang
point of view.


Thanks

Carry

Because of the change to the pvo t1 frigs, a better comparison to the rifter is the Tristan, kestrel or tormentor because even though it does more damage than a breacher currently it is a lot easier to kill with both being properly fit.

First off, I'm with you about Rifter totally being lackluster. That bit of extra fitting does not justify anything.

As much as I'd love to see something done for Rifter, I have doubts if it will happen. Unless the sky rumbles by some ccp gods, I have doubts anything will be done for Rifter at all. The T1 Frig Tiericide thread been talking about it Rifter all time through and it did not really get much. Vigil for instance at least received five medslots, which is quite interesting despite it being a "Disruption Frig with Target Painter bonus".

I too always had the impression that Merlin, Tristan, Punisher and Rifter need to be a seperate sort of "frigate", having some more tank and brawl power of whatsoever.

But whatever may be, Rifter really is behind and it needs something so it also can fulfill its job, because right now, Slasher can do most better. Rifter Killmail justifications just isn't enough :).



This... is actually a good example. Let the Rifter truly be more of a fanged beast like its sisters Wolf and Jaguar (Tiericide will fix T2 Assault Frigs too, so no need to be worrying that Rifter would take over).
While I love the brawler Rifter types of fittings, it would be great to see it being able to actually do a hit and run and actually putting a dent on stuff. I don't like that whole game evolves around "make more dmg" concepts but I guess here it is somewhat necessary.

Since Slasher's bracket has an Interceptor-like Role Bonus, how about giving Rifter a Role Bonus of a "notable Reduction to Negative Webbing Effects", while taking away a few eHP in exchange?

Would make it hard to catch, deal notable dmg with a dual-Weapon Bonus and be somewhere different than the Slasher. Tracking Speed bonus would be missed, but I think removing it for a rocket bonus would be worthwhile.

edit: forgot, such a role bonus would require Merlin, Tristan and Punisher to be looked at once more.

I currently fly my Rifter with x2 rocket launchers and x2 200mm Autocannons despite the ships bonuses, and it wroks great, not as great as a conventional rifter but is still awesome, giving it a dual weapon system bonus would make it a very nice ship.

Here is what i was thinking

Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turrets and Rocket Damage per level
5% bonus to Small Projectile Turrets and Rocket Launcher Rate of Fire per level

Fitting
Powergrid 37MW
CPU 125tf
High 4
Med 3
Low 3
Turrets 3
Launchers 3
Rig 3 (Small)
Calibration 400
Shields
Shield HP 450
EM 0% Thermal 20% Kinetic 40% Explosive 50%
Shield Recharge 625 seconds
Armour
Armour Hitpoints
EM 60% Thermal 35% Kinetic 25% Explosive 10%
Structure
Hull HP 350
Max Velocity 353m/sec
Warp Speed 6.0AU/s
Inertia Modifier 3.19
Mass 1,067,000kg
Volume 27,289m3
Cargo 150m3
Capacitor
Capacitor Capacity 250GJ
Capacitor Recharge 125 seconds
Targeting
Max Tageting Range 22,500km
Max Ragets Locked 4
LADAR Sensor Strength 8
Signature Radius 35m
Scan Resolution 660mm

The reason for the 3x3 weapon hard points is so the pilot can have the choice between 3 turrets and 1 launcher, 3 launchers and 1 turret, 2 launchers and 2 turrets, 3 turrets and utility, or 3 launchers and utility, the list goes on.

I think i remember seeing Fozzy saying they have plans for the Rifter in one of the frig rebalance threads months back. However the rifter was president of the flavor of the way to ******* long club. So dont expect a buff, even a small one, for awhile.

noooooooooo.....


So many replies! :)


1. The Rifter is not bad, it's just not in the VIP lounge where
Merlin and Incursus are having drinks.

2. Of course you fight a blaster ship in falloff.
I'm not talking theory here, it's nearly impossible to sink a Merlin that's
done his homework. Go ahead and try ;)

3. Speed: A Merlin is about as fast as an armor-tanked Rifter, even
after the recent changes.

4. A tanking bonus is complicated due to it's layout.
You would have to push it towards either shield or armor.
Increasing the damage would keep it Minmatar :)
I thought about making the 4th slot also a turret.



In the grand scheme of all EVE my request to look into
darling Rifter is a petty request. But it bothers me, that
I get pushed into ships that i don't want to fly :/

Sorry for backseat moderator, but let's keep it civil m8s :D. I must agree though: Heron and other "scout/exploration frigate" types got drones now. They can actually brawl and even if they die, they'll leave quite a dent and a bloody nose on your Rifter, if you think of it.
Either way, they're not that easy to kill anymore now that they have drones. Just something to think about. Duelling however is not all too helpful in figuring out balance - Though. It would be like balacing WoW with duelling (and that is horrible).


Without flaming or such, it does show that the Rifter needs something. The others excelled while the Rifter stayed as it was. While one could assume it was "fine and working", it now missed evolving along and his limping behind. It is nothing big that needs to be changed, just a something - but big enough so that it isn't just a fart in the wind.





That is likely the case too.
However, it is already clear that it is a falloff boat when it comes to ACs. Since it doesn't have any range bonuses though, Slasher can do it better, as an example. Much better, maybe not, but that extra med slot alone is powerful as you can fit whatever crowd control module. As somebody said elsewhere, the med-slots are often more powerful than hi-slot.

Let's not forget either that a Merlin has decent bonuses to stand its ground. Kiting will not work forever either; assuming you are an experienced pilot. 1 on 1 comparasions are not enough though. One has to see the big picture.

However, since you mentioned playstyle,
it is not easy to say "adapt" in this case because when it comes to this adapt or die feature, people move on to the other ships they're force to. Also, sometimes the playstyle you had is killed all together - example can be seen in how the Drake fans went rampart on various revealed changes at the end of the last year.
Nonetheless, I love using non-cookie cutter fits, but if CCP is forcing us to that "playstyle" then it's either "adapt or die" -- in this case, change to a different ship.



[quoteI think that the bonuses should only effect rockets or autos or in other words 7.5% bonus to rocket damage and 5% increase to projectile rate of fire or all of the other ships it's classed with would need effectively 4 useful per level attributes to balance that out [/quote]

Yeah, was going to say, four bonuses are two too many. You could toss in something for role bonus though. That would somewhere suffice the explanation, but it has to be more of a paperplane eHP because that would make it too strong.

In other words, it has to be either-or; whatever suits the job better. Either way, it just has to be clear that can do the damage dealing job, as the OP said, a "Rupture" sort of workhorse might be better. And if it is balanced out with eHP reduction for example, it could deal damage but not be as tanky as Merlin/Punisher -- while relying more on speed tank. The only problem I could see here is Rifter armor tanking fans.

While not important, this is somewhere why I wanted some 2 or three seperate "frigate" brackets specifically; with cloned hulls. While T2 Assault Frigs remain top dog, these T1 variants give you more leeway on fitting etc. It could get too complicated though and today's community is not much a fan of such, so I'd have to think it through again - though I'm confused somewhere as it is not dumbing down anything.

Or have the Rifter/Tristan/Punisher/Merlin in a seperate bracket as "Heavy Frigates" so they can be more of a threat without worries about the other standard frigs (and the T2 Assault Frigs would still be better).



I think i remember seeing Fozzy saying they have plans for the Rifter in one of the frig rebalance threads months back. However the rifter was president of the flavor of the way to ******* long club. So dont expect a buff, even a small one, for awhile.

(wtf, a quote limit... I guess to avoid quote pyramids)



Yeah, I remember that one.
Others and I asked some time ago if it is still coming or happening but there was nothing said. As somebody said somewhere else and just here as in Rifter being the King of the Hill for ages, we shouldn't hold our breaths on that buff. However, it should still be okay to discuss about it :). There is something special missing on the current Rifter. It is still playable but there is not much really to do when compared to the others. The OP'er said a few examples below.

And since Fozzie mentioned something is apparently in the cooker (or not), it does support the fact that there is indeed something wrong or missing for the Rifter to be on par.

wtf m8, i was going to make the same challenge

edit: since he is afraid of drones, ill use a vigil. Im in rens nowadays, come duel me

I laughed so hard.


I think we should wait and let them complete their entire Tiericide. I think Fozzie already said that once they have touched all ships, they will look at the whole thing again, see how things influenced each other in the different metagames, and then tweak as necessary again.