Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hi all,

I have slowly been getting back into EVE Online lately after having been gone for the last 12 years or so due to military and other duties.

As I have been catching up, there is one thing I now remember that really irked me about EVE Online and although I see many changes have helped in that regard, the one that I would like to see still has not been implemented.. and so I am wondering if the support is there for it perhaps to be so someday..

In my opinion, in a real type space environment, space stations would be and ARE not only huge investments to governments and corporations, but they are also safe havens against pirates and small fleets. Space stations, I envision, are places that should be have massive defensive capabilities, including shields, gun emplacements and turrets and so forth. Additionally space stations would employ some kind of police of defensive ship fleet able to take out most threats or at least hold them off until help arrives.

With all that being said, trade to a station is the life blood. Therefore it stands to reason that a station is going to want to make sure ships coming and going are safe from marauders and pirates etc, at least within a certain range of the station!

I recently had a mission that took me to a system that I ended up being attacked in by station campers. Going into the system was a choice, yes, and I understood the risk. HOWEVER, at the least a person should be able to rely on station defenses to help them out when they are attacked within the stations perimeter of influence.

It is very frustrating for those of us doing trading or simply doing missions who are not partaking in PVP at that time to find there is NO help at all from the local police, stations or otherwise when some station camper sits right there and caps anyone coming in or out of the station.

Now again I am not against PVP. There are PLENTY of ways to PVP in Eve Online, knowingly and unknowingly. But I personally think one change I would like to see is in the regard to universe wide facilities owned or run by governments and large corporations.

IF your standing is neutral or above with whomever controls that space and you are attacked near a warp gate, a station or NPC warship with no cause then those units should come to your aid and defend the space around their perimeter.

If I warp into a stations area and am attacked, it is reasonable that that station is not going to want combat lasers and kinetic rounds flying all over its hanger entrances.. That is just bad for business. Not to mention the holes in their hulls...

And the same for jump gates... I assume those are assets that would be a very protected asset because without them, all space travel would be reduced to long term flight paths thereby also affected trade and so forth. Is that not why there are fleets patrolling most of them now?

Now again this should be based on your standing as well. If you are an enemy of that company or government, well you get your ass handed to you of course. But if they have no beef with you, as long as you do nothing 'illegal' there is no reason for you to worry.. Even if you are a pirate. BUT if you suddenly open up on someone just exiting or entering a station or gate, I feel you should have the added understanding that you will be fired upon by the defenders for opening up on a non-combat target that did nothing to initiate that combat with you.

I like to do missions.. BUT it is extremely frustrating to do 20 jumps, warp to a station to find myself blown to bits the MOMENT I exit hyperspace at the docking gate of the station I was trying to reach...

You're not saying what system this took place in and what it's security level is. This fact makes a great deal of difference.

He is correct in the defenses thing. I always thought this as well (only reading the beginning of the thread). The outposts in 0.0 should be this massive military complex that would scare most non-capital fleets. The standard stations in High/Low sec space shouldnt really be any different.... Pirates can wait out their timers and dock.

You have been warned about risk of going into low/null sec when you accepted that mission. You should have been warned 2nd time before jumping to that particular system. Its your fault for not paying attention to those warnings. Not knowing the rules does not make one an exception to them.

The fact you died, means you obviously need to learn the correct ones.
It's all about preparation, scouting ahead and using the right ship.

Obviously no one is paying attention to what I wrote or WHY I wrote it.

I said I DID know the risks.... HOWEVER I WAS RUNNING A MISSION.

Additionally I also said that making the game FUN or being able to ENJOY it was a major factor for anyone.

Finally, having some "realism" in a space sim is always a GOOD thing. Stations that do not defend themselves, police and military fleets that do NOT DEFEND their citizens, are worthless and nothing more than eye candy if all they do is float around doing nothing.

Obviously with your post you feel 'threatened' that you will lose one of your easy camping abilities because you get some enjoyment out of sitting there preying on people without YOU having to do anything or lift a finger.

Was a mad because I was killed AND pod killed right there at a station entrance? Your dam right I was.. Why?

TWO reasons: One, I was in a destroyer and the person that hit me was in a cruiser. ONE SHOT. ONE SHOT obliterated my ship, shields, armor.. everything... ONE SHOT. I have never before seen where a cruiser could take out a loaded destroyer with ONE SHOT. THEN before I could even react, my pod is ALSO blown to bits.. All of this happened in less than 2 seconds if even that... AND right outside a station before my system had even drawn the controls for the UI in the screen.

It was if they knew I just launched as was able to lock me up before I was even out of the station.

Regardless, I got blown to bits.

And that got me thinking... This is WRONG. There should be a station perimeter defense network AND police and navy fleets SHOULD come to the aid of any ship/traveler in need.

Not only would it allow ALL players the ability to actually go places they normally could not, it would give YOU PIRATES a challenge because you would no longer be able to camp and just hit a few keystrokes and rack up kills over and over.

You would have to actually plan an attack, work on your DEFENSIVE skills and evasion skills to sneak in to take someone out. You would have to work to avoid being blown up by the police at a station once you kill innocents.

This would not make it impossible... you could still do what you do. BUT it would give the rest of us a fighting chance against players like you that CAMP and think it is fun and funny to just pod kill over and over - especially when there are some players like me who are relatively new to the universe and trying to just learn everything.

AND by having this, it would allow ANYONE to go into a sector, ANY sector and have a chance to survive by prudent tactics and planning. Let's say I go to a sector that is RED and full of PVP and pirates.. But if I know once I get to a station, I am within its defensive perimeter, I can MAKE A CHOICE to attempt the run or not... and anytime between jumping in and the flight to the station, you have full opportunity to catch me and blow me to bits IF my tactics and abilities do not get me away from you.

Making these changes would ADD to the game not take away from it. It would make things challenging all around yet also allow all of us to see parts of the universe we might not otherwise EVER get to see... and yet still have a very BIG probability that we would get blown to heck doing so... But at least with changes like this we would have the OPTION knowing if we can get to a station, at least within its perimeter we are safe for the moment..

And? You make that sound like it actually matters.
The fact is, you went to a different part of space which has different sets of rules and conditions... most of which are at the mercy of other players. And that's intentional. Low-sec is the "back-alley" of EVE


In a multiplayer sandbox where conflict is inevitable, your fun usually comes at the costs of someone else's fun. And that is what has happened here. The people who were camping you were certainly having fun (otherwise they wouldn't have been doing it)... but it came at cost of your fun.
The trick it learning how to flip this around.


Have you ever heard of the term "dystopia?" That's basically what EVE is. And 10 years of DEV made lore backs this up (ex. apathetic/corrupt police/politicians, bloodthirsty capsuleers, cold hearted megacorps that see people as mere 'numbers,' theocratic governments that see slavery as a 'path to god,' etc.)

And you're a capsuleer. You are not a "citizen" of a faction anymore unless you join one of the Faction Warfare Militias. You are a "free agent."


Have you ever camped a gate that is shooting at you? Without RR support? It's quite painful. And you're always at risk of someone jumping through in an actual combat ship that can kill your slightly gimped "gank ship" (you need to give up utility to equip sensor boosters, give up buffer for active tanking, alter some mods to be more cap stable, etc).

Also... get someone to scout, use a ship that can blow through a camp, or find an alternate route (not just "shortest route"). None of these require any significant amounts of effort.



Protips:

- check local
- when you undock, don't touch any mods, or alter your ship's course in any way. You have an invulnerability timer for about 30 seconds... more than enough time to load grid.
- find a celestial to "insta-warp" to... usually something right in front of the station's undock
- you have a week to complete your mission... leave your ship in station and come back later. Sometimes being camped in happens.

MalakieUSN wrote:
It was if they knew I just launched as was able to lock me up before I was even out of the station.
You can see who is in station with you and when they undock by selecting the "Guest" tab on station control panel. When the names disappear, it means they have undocked.


MalakieUSN wrote:
And that got me thinking... This is WRONG. There should be a station perimeter defense network AND police and navy fleets SHOULD come to the aid of any ship/traveler in need.
They have station guns. They can two-shot most frigates and destroyers and cripple lightly tanked cruisers.

MalakieUSN wrote:
AND by having this, it would allow ANYONE to go into a sector, ANY sector and have a chance to survive by prudent tactics and planning.
Already the case. You CAN go to any place in the game if you so wish. There is nothing stopping you except other players, who are subject to the same rules and limitations you are within each respective area.
NPC's should not make the journey easier... that should be left to you and those you work with.


MalakieUSN wrote:
Let's say I go to a sector that is RED and full of PVP and pirates.. But if I know once I get to a station, I am within its defensive perimeter, I can MAKE A CHOICE to attempt the run or not... and anytime between jumping in and the flight to the station, you have full opportunity to catch me and blow me to bits IF my tactics and abilities do not get me away from you.
Or the gankers warp in at range in artillery-fit Tornados... blow you up... and warp off.


MalakieUSN wrote:
Making these changes would ADD to the game not take away from it.
It would add to YOUR game experience... not mine. Why is your "game" so important that more protections should be added at the cost of MY "game?"

Sorry to hear that you got ganked and podded in a low-sec system while doing a mission but as what the other posters have said, it IS your fault for accepting the mission to begin with when it is located in low sec of all places.

CCP will not fix low sec with 'NPC police' and 'Faction polices forces' as that will defeat the purpose of what low sec is all about. If you really didn't like what happened to you then why don't YOU make a police force of like-minded players and roam around and hunt those mean pirates and return the favour?

Over all CCP doesn't hold peoples hands and say 'there, there I'll get that bad man/woman for you.'

As they say "High risk, more ISK' Good luck in the future friend o7

We already have it and it's called gate guns. They work reasonably well in a small scale, and if you'd like more protection, I recommend you explore the EVE sandbox. Player-driven content such as a SOV alliance that protects their outposts would be a good solution for example.

If they prepare themselves properly... no amount of NPC forces short of CONCORD will stop people from camping a station or gate. The bar may be raised... but it won't be stopped.

The only thing that can truly counter a player is another player or an omnipotent WTFBBQPWNZOR NPC... the latter being no fun and generally rejected as something for low-sec.
A good example of the former though happened to me last night.

I was bored and brought out my Phobos (which I had slightly gimped to catch stuff and tank gate guns) to camp a gate.
One guy comes through in a hauler... blow him up... spare his pod because I'm feeling nice. A destroyer warps in at range... apparently he's autopiloting... take him out too... destroy the pod because he can't use "bad luck" as an excuse like the hauler.
At this point someone, somewhere reported me and what I was doing. Another gate activation... and a Dominix appears. Whatever, point and web, call for back-up. Wait... where'd that other Dominix come from? Guys? Need help. Ohhhhhh... now there's a Falcon. Oh well... can't win them all. BOOM.



As far as penalties are concerned... try becoming a "pirate"/"criminal" yourself for awhile. The penalties for becoming such include, but are not limited to...

- going "suspect" each time you shoot at someone... making you shootable for anyone, anywhere in the game for 15 minutes.
- getting killrights on you... which can be a bad thing if you still operate in high-sec. You never know when someone will activate them and make your shootable by everyone and anyone for 5 minutes.
- losing security status... which will create problems as the lower your security status is the less high-sec systems you can jump into without NPC police harassing you (you can evade such NPCs using frigates and cruisers, but nothing bigger).
- lose enough security status (-5.0 or lower) and not only will you effectively be "banned" from high-sec... but you will become "outlaw" status... making you shootable by anyone in the game, anywhere in the game, at all times (CONCORD and gateguns will never avenge you).


All of the above then creates additional problems such as, but not limited to...

- being "cut off" from high-sec trade hubs... leaving you with 3 options...
--- get a hauler alt (take training away from your main and/or spend ISK/PLEX to create a new account).
--- pay MUCH higher prices at low-sec trade hubs... which are never well stocked.
--- make friends with more "law abiding" people to get stuff for you and pay them fees or favors.

- your "hunting grounds" are now limited to low-sec... full of other people like you who are probably better equipped, organized, and skilled.

- you may have to deal with the occasional 0.0 group that bases its logistics in your area... **** them off and they will make your time in EVE pure hell.

- if you are not sure what you are doing, making ISK is quite hard and fraught with peril. Again... there are other people around you and no CONCORD to protect you. You have to prepare yourself differently and use completely different tactics.


Before "crimewatch" (the new aggro and PvP mechanics) was implemented, there used to be a status called GCC (Global Criminal Countdown).
If you illegally aggressed someone anywhere in high-sec or low-sec, you would go GCC for 15 minutes. Regardless of where you got it, GCC would provoke a CONCORD response in high-sec and station/gate guns in both high-sec and low-sec.

In low-sec... the station/gate guns would fire on you no matter what station or gate you went to. This would spell almost certain doom for most frigates and cruisers if they attempted to roam around while under GCC. Instead... they would have to sit in a safe-spot or asteroid belt for 15 minutes and wait for the timer to count down.
Oh wait... it got worse than that. If you tried docking or jumping system while in the middle of the GCC timer you would gain a NEW timer... one to that faction's station or gate... which would effectively extend the length of time station and gate guns would shoot you (and would be reset each time you docked, undocked, or jumped through a gate.

tl;dr... under the old system you were shot at by station and gate guns for 15+ minutes if you committed an illegal act of aggression.

Under the new system... you are shot at ONLY by the gate guns of the station or gate you aggroed on no matter what state your timer is. And you can get rid of gate guns by warping off and warping back in. Better yet... if you kill someone's ship (not their pod) in low-sec you can still jump into high-sec without fear of CONCORD.

tl;dr... the new system makes it EASIER than ever before to attack people in low-sec. And it was approved by CCP and the playerbase.