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Target Painters vs Tracking Computers
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YuuKnow
The Scope
#1 - 2013-02-18 15:00:24 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Conversation came up yesterday on Fleet about Tracking Computers vs Target Painters for utility med slots in incursion fleets. Our FC was under the belief that TC were superior. But I wasn't so sure, so when in doubt... take it to the forums!

Case in point, if you look at the Turret Damage Formula http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage there are basically 3 parts of the formula.

0.5^(target angular velocity / turret tracking speed) x( TurrentSigRad / TargetSigRad) + (range / falloff [if not within optimal])

with the smaller the fractions the better for the turret damage.

By the formula turrent sig radius is as important a factor as tracking, that is, a 30% boost in tracking will yield the same boost to applied turrent damage as a 30% boost in target sig radius. That being said, comparing TP and TC computers directly depends on the range of the target. If the target is within optimal then a TP is as effective for any one ship as a TC with a tracking script. If the target is not in optimal then the TC may or may not be a bigger boost to applied damge depending on range and falloff. TPs are also subject to range and falloff so the comparison between the two depends a lot of the range of the target compared to optimal

But...

... my contingency is, since TP yields a global increase in sig radius for the target, one TP boost the applied DPS of the *entire* group, rather than just the ship equipping it, correct?

For example, if the applied DPS of 4 ships is 500 apiece then the total DPS is

Quote:
500 + 500 + 500 + 500 = 2000
If one ship has a TC with a 30% tracking bonus then the DPS of the group would be
Quote:
500x1.3 + 500 + 500 + 500 = 2150

However if one ship has a TP with a 30% increase in target sig radius then the DPS of the group would be
Quote:
(500 + 500 + 500 + 500 ) x 1.3 = 2600
and in that way doesn't having TPs in a fleet yield better applied DPS then TCs in that it boost the applied DPS of the entire group rather than just the DPS of the individual ship?

Another example is if all ships had TCs. The DPS would be
Quote:
500x1.3 + 500 x1.3 + 500x1.3 + 500x1.3 = 2600

However if two of the ships had TCs and two had TPs then the DPS would be, taking into account the stacking penalty

Quote:
( 500 + 500 + 500x1.3 + 500x1.3 ) x (1 + 0.3 + 0.3(.87)) =
( 500 + 500 + 500x1.3 + 500x1.3 ) x (1.562) = 3592.6
So by that math aren't a few scattered TP more powerful than TCs in boasting the fleets applied DPS? I'm a wrong?

yk
YuuKnow
The Scope
#2 - 2013-02-18 15:03:00 UTC
btw, wasn't there some sort of program out there that simulated all these things in graphical form. Where the user changed sliders and could see the impact on applied DPS. Its been awhile, but I remember that somewhere. Anyone have a link?

yk
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-18 15:14:19 UTC
A single target painter will be more beneficial to a fleet but not the ship.

A loki or vindi with double webs and a ship/ships with a pair of TP's is more than enough, past this stacking starts coming into play big time. Fit TC for better application on the other ships.

No Worries
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#4 - 2013-02-18 16:13:14 UTC
In any situation where the fleet will be focusing fire, the Target painter will always be superior.


It gives the same bonus to tracking that the TC does, only it applies to the entire fleet.


Furthermore, you can get a bonused ship like the Rapier and make it even better (the equivalent of using tracking links with a scimi on all your bships)



All that being said, the Target painters and TC's don't really "boost" your DPS.

They will just let you apply it better, if your already hitting at max damage, neither of these modules will give you more.


(Most people have no idea how the sig radius works with tracking, so kudo's to you and your FC)
Brad Wosht
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-02-18 16:44:37 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
Anyone have a link?...


I think you're looking for:
http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf
YuuKnow
The Scope
#6 - 2013-02-19 00:12:35 UTC
Brad Wosht wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
Anyone have a link?...


I think you're looking for:
http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf


Sweet, Thanks! Likes for you!

yk
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2013-02-19 04:52:18 UTC
a tp will boost the tracking of every other fleet in the incursion as well, which is the main reason they don't get more love. but if you are the only fleet going I don't see why you wouldn't want a few tps

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Cadius Vect
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#8 - 2013-02-19 14:12:44 UTC
With target painters there is the overlying problem of cycle time, when things are going down fast like in an incursion, it would be difficult to co-ordinate painters spread across several ships to ensure the primary is always sufficiently painted.

From playing around with DPS graphs in EFT you can see that transversal plays a far larger role on turret damage than sig and generally you either are shooting things at longer range when the transversal is much lower or close range when they are heavily webbed.

Because of this target painters only play a role while the target is building transversal on approach but before it gets into web range when the effect of signature radius damage reduction will be entirely negated due to low velocity.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#9 - 2013-02-19 16:00:07 UTC
with some EFT warriorring i figured that stacking penalities will make any TP over 4 irelevant.