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If clones were free would more PVP?
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TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-02-18 17:03:18 UTC
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
I'm almost on 90mil and pod cost does nothing to stop me making other people explode.


what did your clones cost when you started out?


no idea, never really paid any mind to it.

That said, I'll also happily suicide jump myself across space for a fight if need be, even if I have a head full of implants.

I can always get more isk


Aye but if you were risk adverse and getting podded constantly due to 'mistakes' then you might feel differently about it is what I'm getting at.


If I were losing pods constantly to my mistakes, I'd re-evaluate what I was doing.

I get your point though, some people just need to toughen up ;)
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2013-02-18 17:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
fukier
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2013-02-18 17:21:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
People who like excuses not to PvP would just find new excuses if you made clones free.


Implants is my bet.



wait?

is this where i chime in and say get rid of learning implants because of so and so?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2013-02-18 17:22:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2013-02-18 18:23:15 UTC
This thread is pointless anyway because CCP already knows that clone costs are ****** up.
I still believe it should be turned into an insurance scheme whereby the clone costs stay the same but if I pay for a clone at a certain level I can lose as many clones as I want over the next 90 days and my SP are protected without having to pay fees every time I get podded.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#106 - 2013-02-18 18:43:12 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:

Such things are pretty much the definition of fair, since everyone who pays more or less the same amount gains the same benefit and the cost doesn't vary according to irrelevant stats.



But is unfair! Why should a long term customer pay the same as a noob?? Sound like a punishment for being a loyal customer!!

And also consider all those poor kids in 0.0; they have to spend a lot of time in structrure grinding and this requires much more ammo! Ammo cost should be scaled according to this, not like they decided to live there and play structure grinding!
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-02-18 18:52:26 UTC
Wouldn't make much difference to me. I have a low SP alt for all my pvp shenanigans, has negligible clone costs.

They should definitely cost something, to prevent free suicide jumping and to give some satisfaction to podding implantless clones.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2013-02-18 19:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
If ships and mods were never lost.. if implants didn't exist... if clones were free... would there be more pvp? No; stricty speaking what would be left would not be concidered real pvp. This is a brutal game part of which is intimidation (through fear of loss) to keep others at bay and away from your money making pursuits.. Without that fear the game would become just a repetitious time sink ala wow or (you fill in the mindless console game here).

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#109 - 2013-02-18 19:06:33 UTC
Takseen wrote:
I have a low SP alt for all my pvp shenanigans, has negligible clone costs


Is this the norm for PVPers? Use a cheap low SP alt.

Are they any PVPers who use their 100 mil + SP main to do the killing? Or when you get to that point you have others do the killing for you.
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#110 - 2013-02-18 21:06:52 UTC
If ships were free I would...
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#111 - 2013-02-18 21:28:28 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Much more. ALSO I noticed clones double charge us. I paid x amount of isk for a clone after the last time I was podded. Then, after being podded again, I was charged the cost of the clone. What's up with that?


Uh?! What do you mean? When you get podded your current clone/body is destoryed and you wake up in the clone you previously stored in the medical station.

Then you pay (if you want) to buy a new backup clone stored.





Next time you do, notice how your wallet flashes
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#112 - 2013-02-18 21:52:24 UTC
Clones should never be free, but I think the prices should encourage people jumping back in to the fight.
My thoughts:

Start by halving the cost of all clones across the board. Now then:
-If you are podded in high-sec, double the cost (call it CONCORD protection tax)
-If you are podded, you get a 23 hour cooldown timer.
-If you are podded again while under cooldown, the clone cost is 50% of base (or 25 % of what is currently is) and the timer resets to 23 hours again.

Examples:

If today your clone cost 20 million isk, under the new system:

Your clone would now cost 10 million isk
First time you get podded, it will cost you 10 million isk and a 23 hours cool down timer starts.
Second time you get podded, if the 23 hour timer hasn't run out, your replacement clone will be 5million isk.

However if you are podded in high-sec, double any of the prices (really, you got podded in high-sec?) so...
Your clone would now cost 20 million isk
First time you get podded, it will cost you 20 million isk and a 23 hours cool down timer starts.
Second time you get podded, if the 23 hour timer hasn't run out, your replacement clone will be 10 million isk.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Dyjal'Ryn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2013-02-18 22:05:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyjal'Ryn
I would say that, on the whole, the reason people don't PvP is because they don't want to lose ships, and thus money. Granted there are some people who have no interest in PvP and get all of their fun from EVE via scanning, or what have you, and that's fine.

My T2 dual rep Incursus fit, not including T2 rigs, runs me about 5mil IIRC (It's been a since since I bought components for the fit.), and that's for a T2 fit for a T1 Frigate. One relatively very cheap ship costs more than an Omicron clone, which hold ~42mil SP. That said, the cost of PvP is not the cost of clones, it's the cost of ships, as the cost of replacing a clone is a very small portion of getting back into space. Some people don't want to pay that much. Some people can't pay that much. Thus they don't PvP.

TL;DR The cost of clones does not keep people from participating in PvP, it's the cost of ships, assuming cost is the reason why person X does not PvP.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#114 - 2013-02-18 22:50:59 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
People who like excuses not to PvP would just find new excuses if you made clones free.


Implants is my bet.



You can choose to pvp with implants or not, this is not a factor preventing "some" from pvp.

Jump clone timer and POD cost, are.


I'm almost on 90mil sp and pod cost does nothing to stop me making other people explode.

Mainly because I go out with the expectation that I'll make more of their stuff die before I die. That and the isk coming in from that covers losses



Yes tell us more about T1 frigates you fly in null sec with your 90M Sp implanted clone is not a problem for you.
Or how happy you are to pay 20M for only pod price without implants if you really pvp in null and actually fight weekly for about at least 3 to 4 pods.
Let me remind you: you're playing with different people in an MMO that might actually think you're not the best at what you do?
I don't see what's really that awesome in your comment, but if you really like to have your ass wiped for fun I'm sure there are some funny folks around ready to help you out.

- Sp does not determinate how much isk you can do with your character or not. Since price is not considered as balance factor lets talk about pvp, and in this single point, timer for it self it's already negative.
If you factor the punishment for training your sole character telling you: "no you will not fly small ships anymore because you shouldn't, take it or leave it"- has no sense at all for any one with more than 15 IQ, and dammit even a monkey has that much.

Again I'd say, get rid of clone costs and increase market/contracts trading fees. This will make more isk get out of the game than any actual number of pods loss.
.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#115 - 2013-02-18 22:52:09 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
Lets forget for a moment the Darwin issue of forgetting to upgrade/renew you medical clone and losing SP.

If free medical clones were provided to all players would this encourage more people to participate in PVP?

Players with over 100 mil SP are sometimes averted to PVP because of the cost of replacement clones at that level. Even lower level players can be drained having to replace countless clones. Without the worry of losing 10x or more the cost of the T1 firgate you are flying I think more players would be more willing to give it a try. At least on a more casual level you could JC into a implantless clone, go on a lo/null sec adventure for the afternoon and not have to worry about losing 75+ mil ISK and potential SP loss. It may just be the determining factor for alot of unsure players who wanted to get their feet wet but were afraid to.

Even most serious PVPers have alts to help augment their income to pay for their fun and also allow them access to hisec. Would it not also be beneficial to them to have one less thing to worry about? Let them concentrate on what they do best, killing.


Just wondering other opinions on this.


Well I'd say that the numbers on SiSi will give you your answer.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#116 - 2013-02-18 22:58:34 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
Takseen wrote:
I have a low SP alt for all my pvp shenanigans, has negligible clone costs


Is this the norm for PVPers? Use a cheap low SP alt.

Are they any PVPers who use their 100 mil + SP main to do the killing? Or when you get to that point you have others do the killing for you.


If they don't it's probably because the mechanic of clone prices is bad?

Or do you really want to convince anyone with normal brains and IQ the smarter thing to do is to train alts for pvp when you already have one...?

Simple verification: CCP can open surveys and know a little bit more about this than you and me together.

I bet 1 billion the higher SP players would agree for progressive clone cost accordingly to ship loss (sp required for current fitted ship loss) or removal of clone cost but increase market fees.

Would you take the bet?

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#117 - 2013-02-18 23:00:16 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
Takseen wrote:
I have a low SP alt for all my pvp shenanigans, has negligible clone costs


Is this the norm for PVPers? Use a cheap low SP alt.

Are they any PVPers who use their 100 mil + SP main to do the killing? Or when you get to that point you have others do the killing for you.


I PVP with 100M SP characters pretty frequently....

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2013-02-18 23:16:44 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Pewty McPew wrote:
Takseen wrote:
I have a low SP alt for all my pvp shenanigans, has negligible clone costs


Is this the norm for PVPers? Use a cheap low SP alt.

Are they any PVPers who use their 100 mil + SP main to do the killing? Or when you get to that point you have others do the killing for you.


I PVP with 100M SP characters pretty frequently....

-Liang

In lowsec.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-02-18 23:20:34 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Pewty McPew wrote:
Takseen wrote:
I have a low SP alt for all my pvp shenanigans, has negligible clone costs


Is this the norm for PVPers? Use a cheap low SP alt.

Are they any PVPers who use their 100 mil + SP main to do the killing? Or when you get to that point you have others do the killing for you.


I PVP with 100M SP characters pretty frequently....

-Liang

Where?
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2013-02-18 23:23:34 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

In lowsec.


People pvping in a pvp friendly area? Inconceivable!