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If clones were free would more PVP?
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-02-18 14:45:18 UTC
Danu Charante wrote:
Jaden Li wrote:


Wealth and PVP Skill are not proportional to a player's skillpoints. Exponentially increasing clone costs is a broken game design based on this false assumption.


Yes, change the mechanics of the game to suit Character Bazaar bought bads and people who log in for an hour a week.


Care to explain the "people who log in for an hour a week" part please?

As far as you are concerned their money is as good as yours, why do you feel you should have any sort of privilege for whatever unreasonable reason?
-by unreasonable read: CCP cares less how much time someone spends playing their game, sub price is the same.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Danu Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#82 - 2013-02-18 15:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Danu Charante
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:
Jaden Li wrote:


Wealth and PVP Skill are not proportional to a player's skillpoints. Exponentially increasing clone costs is a broken game design based on this false assumption.


Yes, change the mechanics of the game to suit Character Bazaar bought bads and people who log in for an hour a week.


Care to explain the "people who log in for an hour a week" part please?

As far as you are concerned their money is as good as yours, why do you feel you should have any sort of privilege for whatever unreasonable reason?
-by unreasonable read: CCP cares less how much time someone spends playing their game, sub price is the same.



EVE, unlike other generic MMO's, has a different skill leveling system, you dont actually have to play to skill up. My opinion is that it's better to reward people who actually play the game and contribute to the massively part in MMO, than the skill point bears who don't.
So in essence, the clone costs actively encourage you to actually play EVE.
The skill point system is more of a 'broken game' mechanic than clone costs, in terms of gameplay.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-02-18 15:15:29 UTC
People who like excuses not to PvP would just find new excuses if you made clones free.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#84 - 2013-02-18 15:16:25 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
People who like excuses not to PvP would just find new excuses if you made clones free.


Implants is my bet.
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#85 - 2013-02-18 15:24:01 UTC
implants and jump clones make clone costs unnecessary as they are a far superior means of managing risk and reward.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#86 - 2013-02-18 15:34:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
People who like excuses not to PvP would just find new excuses if you made clones free.


Implants is my bet.


They did it already:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=205451&find=unread
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#87 - 2013-02-18 15:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
What about the barrier for ammo and repair costs? That's unfair too
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-02-18 15:41:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
People who like excuses not to PvP would just find new excuses if you made clones free.


Implants is my bet.



You can choose to pvp with implants or not, this is not a factor preventing "some" from pvp.

Jump clone timer and POD cost, are.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Signal11th
#89 - 2013-02-18 15:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Danu Charante wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:
Jaden Li wrote:


Wealth and PVP Skill are not proportional to a player's skillpoints. Exponentially increasing clone costs is a broken game design based on this false assumption.


Yes, change the mechanics of the game to suit Character Bazaar bought bads and people who log in for an hour a week.


Care to explain the "people who log in for an hour a week" part please?

As far as you are concerned their money is as good as yours, why do you feel you should have any sort of privilege for whatever unreasonable reason?
-by unreasonable read: CCP cares less how much time someone spends playing their game, sub price is the same.



EVE, unlike other generic MMO's, has a different skill leveling system, you dont actually have to play to skill up. My opinion is that it's better to reward people who actually play the game and contribute to the massively part in MMO, than the skill point bears who don't.
So in essence, the clone costs actively encourage you to actually play EVE.
The skill point system is more of a 'broken game' mechanic than clone costs, in terms of gameplay.



Tell that to Mittani as far as I know he hardly logs in and according to you does feck all for EVE????

It's the one thing I love about EVE more than anything is that even though I can only log in for 5-6 hours a week I can still do the same as some no life fectard who spends all his time playing this.
How about rewarding the people who have spent money playing this for years and years by "not" having a cost that only hurts players who have been loyal to the brand.

Muppet.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#90 - 2013-02-18 15:58:42 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
What about the barrier for ammo and repair costs? That's unfair too

Such things are pretty much the definition of fair, since everyone who pays more or less the same amount gains the same benefit and the cost doesn't vary according to irrelevant stats. Ships, equipment, implants, boosters and similar things also provide direct functional benefit for the investment. They only make the additional cost of medical clones look even more redundant and bad, since they already provide the cost for PvP. They're just a vastly better mechanic for doing so, because there the cost correlates directly with the benefits gained and not with some other irrelevant stat. Thanks to them there is no need to have people pay through the medical clone mechanic too, so the entire mechanic could even be removed entirely without any serious negative side effects to the game.
Danu Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#91 - 2013-02-18 16:04:42 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:
Jaden Li wrote:


Wealth and PVP Skill are not proportional to a player's skillpoints. Exponentially increasing clone costs is a broken game design based on this false assumption.


Yes, change the mechanics of the game to suit Character Bazaar bought bads and people who log in for an hour a week.


Care to explain the "people who log in for an hour a week" part please?

As far as you are concerned their money is as good as yours, why do you feel you should have any sort of privilege for whatever unreasonable reason?
-by unreasonable read: CCP cares less how much time someone spends playing their game, sub price is the same.



EVE, unlike other generic MMO's, has a different skill leveling system, you dont actually have to play to skill up. My opinion is that it's better to reward people who actually play the game and contribute to the massively part in MMO, than the skill point bears who don't.
So in essence, the clone costs actively encourage you to actually play EVE.
The skill point system is more of a 'broken game' mechanic than clone costs, in terms of gameplay.



Tell that to Mittani as far as I know he hardly logs in and according to you does feck all for EVE????

It's the one thing I love about EVE more than anything is that even though I can only log in for 5-6 hours a week I can still do the same as some no life fectard who spends all his time playing this.
How about rewarding the people who have spent money playing this for years and years by "not" having a cost that only hurts players who have been loyal to the brand.

Muppet.


Sure, lets remove all Isk sinks for the entitled, loyal players. Just because they're special.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-02-18 16:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: TheBlueMonkey
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
People who like excuses not to PvP would just find new excuses if you made clones free.


Implants is my bet.



You can choose to pvp with implants or not, this is not a factor preventing "some" from pvp.

Jump clone timer and POD cost, are.


I'm almost on 90mil sp and pod cost does nothing to stop me making other people explode.

Mainly because I go out with the expectation that I'll make more of their stuff die before I die. That and the isk coming in from that covers losses
Gotch Urarse
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#93 - 2013-02-18 16:14:15 UTC
I'm on the fence regarding clone costs. But I did think of a sort of compromise. In going with the time honored argument that a 100mil character doesn't have a 10 fold advantage over a 10mil character, due to skills being a pool of which only some are active at any given time, why not make the clone cost reflect this?

It would effectively be all supporting skills, but when you get to skill categories like Drones, Gunnery, Missile Launcher Operation and especially Spaceship Command, base the cost of the 'highest combination'. To use a Spaceship Command as an example, a new pilot's 'highest combination' could be Spaceship Command IV + Destroyers IV. Sure, he may have his a racial Cruisers to II, a couple racial Frigates to II or IV. I did a quick tally and where I set in my skill plan, it wouldn't effect me but in 3 to 4 days, it would save me from having to upgrade right away.

Sure, for a newer player, their total SP may very close to their 'usable' SP, but as they mature, it starts to balance out. Maybe the above scheme isn't the best way to calculate 'usable' SP. Perhaps there is a better way that a more experienced eye could see.

tl;dr base the clone cost off the best pool of skills that could be utilized, not the total.
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#94 - 2013-02-18 16:16:32 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
I'm almost on 90mil and pod cost does nothing to stop me making other people explode.


what did your clones cost when you started out?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2013-02-18 16:20:43 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Clone degradation would be awesome too.

No, it would not.
It would be ******* awful game design and you should feel bad for even suggesting it.


What? Is the risk factor of permadeath or actually standing to lose skillpoints too much for the hard core pvpers of Eve?


Stop trolling.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-02-18 16:23:10 UTC
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
I'm almost on 90mil and pod cost does nothing to stop me making other people explode.


what did your clones cost when you started out?


no idea, never really paid any mind to it.

That said, I'll also happily suicide jump myself across space for a fight if need be, even if I have a head full of implants.

I can always get more isk
Irya Boone
The Scope
#97 - 2013-02-18 16:25:17 UTC
to answer the original question : NO

But But IF no loosing skillpoints after mass poding then there will be more pvp sure

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Signal11th
#98 - 2013-02-18 16:25:20 UTC
Danu Charante wrote:

Sure, lets remove all Isk sinks for the entitled, loyal players. Just because they're special.



Ahh so I basically made your argument invalid you're now changing your argument to something else ...ok keep trying.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#99 - 2013-02-18 16:34:35 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
I'm almost on 90mil and pod cost does nothing to stop me making other people explode.


what did your clones cost when you started out?


no idea, never really paid any mind to it.

That said, I'll also happily suicide jump myself across space for a fight if need be, even if I have a head full of implants.

I can always get more isk


Aye but if you were risk adverse and getting podded constantly due to 'mistakes' then you might feel differently about it is what I'm getting at.
Danu Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#100 - 2013-02-18 16:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Danu Charante
Signal11th wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:

Sure, lets remove all Isk sinks for the entitled, loyal players. Just because they're special.

Tell that to Mittani as far as I know he hardly logs in and according to you does feck all for EVE????



Ahh so I basically made your argument invalid you're now changing your argument to something else ...ok keep trying.


Wait, you think using The Mittani as an example makes my argument invalid? As far as I can see I don't see him crying about clone costs.
Leave that to the special snowflakes of EVE.
Oh, and as far as I know, The Mittani logs in 23.5/7, what does that do to your argument?