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The Minmatar's great Debt to the Amarr Empire

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Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-02-17 06:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Simon Louvaki wrote:
I’ve already stated why it's bad...


In fact you have not. What you said was:

Simon Louvaki wrote:
The absence of God’s presence is something unbearably terrifying to the faithful.


This is not an explanation of why it's bad, merely an assertion that it is. Your reasoning appears to be "it's bad because it's bad", which is perfectly circular.

You then move on to claiming exclusivity of knowledge with "you're not a believer, it's difficult if not impossible for you to understand, you clearly have no desire to".

Well... okay, guilty as charged, I have no desire to experience that kind of fear for myself.

But the reason I do not fear what you do is that as far as I'm concerned it makes no sense to be afraid of missing out on something you have no proof is even attainable, especially not to that degree. There's not a shred of good, blast-proof, well-founded evidence to suggest that the heaven you're aspiring to is anything other than a fantasy. Which means that this naked terror of the idea of missing out on it is absurd and neurotic. It would sound insecure and twitchy even if you were talking about something that's known to be possible.

I'm deadly serious about that; let me illustrate how desperate you sound right now by replacing the word "God" with the word "pizza".

Quote:
The absence of pizza is something unbearably terrifying to the faithful. To never know the deliciousness and and flavor of the pizza. I understand why this is difficult for you to grasp, as I said before, you clearly have no desire to reach the culinary heights we are attempting to aspire to. You do not fear what we do, and as much as it is baffling to you for us to fear not eating pizza, it's equally as baffling to the majority of us how you could not.


Those don't sound like the words of a man of conviction to me, they sound like somebody with crippling insecurity problems who's protesting rather more than is convincing, and who is using hauteur and belittlement to buffer himself from the critics.

Now I'm not suggesting that YOU have crippling insecurity problems - I don't have anywhere near enough information to make that judgment - but as far as I'm concerned if somebody were to wax that feverishly lyrical about how terrifying it is to be cut off from god pizza, I'd be inclined to doubt their sincerity. And we have empirical evidence that pizza exists!

Quote:
You don’t blame the source for the willful misleading of the person using it.


Because of course yours is the only party ever to have made an honest and humble attempt to interpret the written truth accurately. Hah!

There are untold thousands of sects of the Amarr faith. Some are forced to live in exile because the Imperial authorities deem them heretical, or dangerously liberal. All claim to be the divine truth, correctly interpreted at long last. Every single one of them performs the exact same stunt of misanthropic parochial hubris that you just did.

Garbage in, garbage out. It's a simple principle. You most certainly can blame the source for being confusing to the point of uselessness.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#122 - 2013-02-17 07:04:25 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

The absence of pizza is something unbearably terrifying to the faithful. To never know the deliciousness and and flavor of the pizza. I understand why this is difficult for you to grasp, as I said before, you clearly have no desire to reach the culinary heights we are attempting to aspire to. You do not fear what we do, and as much as it is baffling to you for us to fear not eating pizza, it's equally as baffling to the majority of us how you could not.


Damn you, Verin. Will you stop with the blasphemy and horror stories? Point out the ridiculous stuff if you wish, but these are quite real and divine things you're messing with. I could feel a hollow pit of sadness in me just imagining the absence of pizza.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#123 - 2013-02-17 10:41:42 UTC
Eww, a Sani sabik started thread.

Also, the Empress has said the Age of Slavery is coming to an End.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#124 - 2013-02-17 13:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Stitcher wrote:
Incorrect. I merely described the reality of your situation. It's no more inherently insulting to describe you as a slave than it is to describe you as a capsuleer - it's simply what you are.

If you've taken offence at the description, then that's your problem, not my fault. I am not accountable for your capacity to be offended by simple statements of fact, nor for your capacity to deny reality. The strongest chains are the ones that the slave never notices that they are wearing.


You are a slave of your emotions, pride, and self confidence as well. It is simply what you are.

We could go like that for long in stretched and cheap analogies.

Simon Louvaki wrote:
The Matari people have nothing to gain from people who continue to spread hate through misunderstanding and will never reach their full potential with people advocating it.


Why do you think they deposed Midular ?

So much for the Ray of Matar.

Stitcher wrote:
You would be astonished just how accurately you can judge a person off a few short comments they have made. You may think it rude, but it's been my experience in life that across much of New Eden the word "polite" is effectively interchangeable with the word "dishonest".

I believe in respecting people, not being polite to them. Which means that I believe in telling them the truth as I see it as opposed to lying to them. I know full well that this behaviour is broadly seen as blunt and terse at best (and downright arrogantly unpleasant at worst) but my objective is to communicate, not to make people like me. The people I'm most inclined to like myself will value these traits.

I can also respect a person through remaining silent, and in fact I very often do so. I just don't do it here in the IGS because the entire point is that this place is for discussion and openness. To enter a forum of public discourse and then remain silent because somebody else dislikes what you're saying is self-defeating.

If you don't like what I'm saying, don't listen to it. If you object to what I'm saying, counter me with a well-founded opposing argument.

But telling me that you think I'm being rude is just whining, pilot, and I do not respect whining.


There is a gap between honesty and just being frank (and blunt) at every occasion, and the latter sure has nothing to do with respect, actually, quite the contrary.

There is however, few steps between self confidence, arrogance, and megalomania, which may be the crux of the mater here.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#125 - 2013-02-17 17:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Down with This Sort of Thing... P

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#126 - 2013-02-17 17:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Stitcher wrote:


In fact you have not. What you said was:

Simon Louvaki wrote:
The absence of God’s presence is something unbearably terrifying to the faithful.



In fact I have, Stitcher. Its pretty clear cut. If you are not satisfied with the answer then your not.

Stitcher wrote:

You then move on to claiming exclusivity of knowledge with "you're not a believer, it's difficult if not impossible for you to understand, you clearly have no desire to".

Well... okay, guilty as charged, I have no desire to experience that kind of fear for myself.


A rock can not soak up water Pilot. If you have not the desire to understand (not believe mind you, but take it seriously enough to step into another's shoes) then there is nothing I can say that will make a difference. In any case, fly safe Pilot and good luck in your future endeavors!

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-02-18 03:16:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Unwillingness to experience something first hand does not invalidate any opinion that may be formed. I have no need to be set on fire to understand that it would be painful and should be avoided. I have no need to adopt the beliefs of Amarr in order to understand them, and it is on the basis of that outside understanding that I object to them.

Fare thee well, in any case. I agree that we're just likely to go in circles at this point, especially if you're going to ignore the main thrust of my commentary and instead pick at the edges.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#128 - 2013-02-18 03:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
[REDACTED]

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#129 - 2013-02-18 04:16:32 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
[...]

Thus, the Minmatar owe an immense debt to the Empire [...]


Oh, really.

Well.

I've got a nice lump-sum repayment for you, right here.

Valerie Valate wrote:
[...] regardless of how many of the Empire's slaves are distantly related to the denizens of those three worlds.


Actually that would imply that you owe us. Although you seeing it as the opposite doesn't surprise me in the least.

As that nasty old thing stated above, this thread is clearly going places.

Hopefully right down the nearest loo.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#130 - 2013-02-18 16:24:04 UTC
Louella Dougans wrote:


Also, the Empress has said the Age of Slavery is coming to an End.


But the Empress didn't give a timescale for that.

And then she declared a new Reclaiming.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#131 - 2013-02-18 17:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Rodj Blake wrote:
Louella Dougans wrote:


Also, the Empress has said the Age of Slavery is coming to an End.


But the Empress didn't give a timescale for that.

And then she declared a new Reclaiming.


One can reclaim the Hearts and Souls of New Eden Mr. Blake without the use of brute military force.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb