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Thoughts on making drones a primary weapon instead of just a dps boost
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Saithos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-17 14:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Saithos
For as long as I've been playing I've always loved drones. There's something about them that just makes me a little warm on the inside knowing that these little loveable bundles of death are zipping towards my target~

Now, for equally as long I've heard people begging CCP to made drones a viable dps platform instead of something to just boost your damage. So, a little while ago while sitting on the toilet I had an idea. An idea that would bring new drones to New Eden, not unbalance the game and provide more reason for those miner guys to do their jobs.

HIGH. SLOT. DRONES.

Or more specifically, mini hanger platforms that hold a single drone. These mini hangers would hold a single drone and would retract just like all the new turrets/launchers. The drones they hold (They only hold one each) would be just slightly bigger than normal drones and be in one of two flavors.

Missile and Hitscan

The drones once launched would act as any other drone and fly towards the enemy and shoot them. However, the behavior would be slightly different in a few regards.

-Drones will follow you into warp, dropping all targets and immediately follow you into warp.
-Drones will deal the equivalent damage range of what the ship class normally fits.
-These would not be fighters, they do not pursue.
-Hanger platform turrets would repair/reload drones once they dock
-Each high slot module requires a permanent amount of bandwidth and a highslot hard point to fit.
-Upon destruction of a drone, the mini hanger module would fetch a new drone from your cargo to replace the destroyed one


I believe this has the potential to bring an exciting new card to the table that is EVE. I pitch these ideas in hopes of community feedback, as in the time since I've started playing I've realized that EVE's community is quite possibly the best think tank there
is.

I'll be adding repeated ideas to the list.
Lukas Flamesword
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-02-17 20:33:59 UTC
seems like a nice idea. long range weapons for Gallente :)
1+ support from me
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#3 - 2013-02-17 21:27:09 UTC
I've always advocated for a drone repair module that could heal them while docked. So this is interesting to me.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Saithos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-18 06:21:34 UTC
Lukas Flamesword wrote:
seems like a nice idea. long range weapons for Gallente :)
1+ support from me


Indeed. But it wouldn't benefit just Gallente, it would benefit everyone. Though, the Gallente ships would see some interesting affects.
Saithos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-02-18 06:22:26 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I've always advocated for a drone repair module that could heal them while docked. So this is interesting to me.


Yeah, too long have drones just sat there stagnant. Drones hold the capacity for quite a bit of creativity and expansion.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-02-18 07:30:17 UTC
Drone bays should repair drones and drones should we way harder to kill



Still pissed that an Incursus can threeshot the drones from my mighty battleheron without a web <.<

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-18 09:25:46 UTC
Nice idea, I like it. Especially hangar-repair and warp.

I thought about a similar suggestion before. Think about some additions:

- No new drones (current ones should be reworked for it since only usable drones are Sentry and Light Hobgoblins/Warriors).
- High-slot drone hanger should take drones from your drone bay just like turrets take ammo from cargo. Therefore you have to chose which drones will you use beforehand.
- High-slot drone module should launch your drone to a target like a "living" cannonball. Thus we would get a small/medium/large drone hangers just like a turrets and T1/T2 versions with different launch speed/distance/reload etc. Those drome hangars should be able to hold up to 2 drones of corresponding size to make fitting easier for drone-oriented ships.
- Special module might be introduced to control drones better, something like high-slot Target Painter. It will give your drones greatly increased damage on painted target (making to a level of Turrets + normal drones) and allow drones to travel faster between targets (navigation to beacon is easier).
- Something like tractor beam for sentries.
Saithos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-02-18 12:02:45 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Nice idea, I like it. Especially hangar-repair and warp.

I thought about a similar suggestion before. Think about some additions:

- No new drones (current ones should be reworked for it since only usable drones are Sentry and Light Hobgoblins/Warriors).
- High-slot drone hanger should take drones from your drone bay just like turrets take ammo from cargo. Therefore you have to chose which drones will you use beforehand.
- High-slot drone module should launch your drone to a target like a "living" cannonball. Thus we would get a small/medium/large drone hangers just like a turrets and T1/T2 versions with different launch speed/distance/reload etc. Those drome hangars should be able to hold up to 2 drones of corresponding size to make fitting easier for drone-oriented ships.
- Special module might be introduced to control drones better, something like high-slot Target Painter. It will give your drones greatly increased damage on painted target (making to a level of Turrets + normal drones) and allow drones to travel faster between targets (navigation to beacon is easier).
- Something like tractor beam for sentries.


Though an interesting proposal, it strays way too far from the original idea into something new entirely. It's also quite extreme.

Let's just keep it simple, effective and efficient.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-02-18 12:30:31 UTC
An interesting idea, but

Saithos wrote:
while sitting on the toilet


far too much information Big smile
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-02-18 13:25:20 UTC
Saithos wrote:
Though an interesting proposal, it strays way too far from the original idea into something new entirely. It's also quite extreme.

Let's just keep it simple, effective and efficient.


Sure, except the current UI is not simple, drones do not work and repeated right-clicking for drones does not engender efficiency. Support for this and support for a drones revamp.

Dodixie > Hek
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#11 - 2013-02-18 16:21:16 UTC
So all the downsides plus talking up a slot and being a little tougher?

Sounds like a bad idea

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-02-18 20:28:56 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
So all the downsides plus talking up a slot and being a little tougher?

Sounds like a bad idea


^This

Drone turrets need to fetch new drone from cargo like normal ammo upon drone destruction, instead of drone bay, and not taking up existing bandwidth or # limit. Otherwise nobody will use a slot for it. You need to realize this is not free, you're sacrificing a gun for it.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-02-18 20:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Montevius Williams
Yea, I have no idea why dedicated drone boats, carriers and supercarriers would not have a repair bay on ship. If you dont want to affect balance, make it a mod slot or a rig slot.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#14 - 2013-02-18 21:06:26 UTC
How about this:

Each of your replaced gun slots boosts it's drone to levels comparable to the DPS of the gun / launcher it would replace.
Forget the ammo use aspect, the drones ARE the ammo. Being able to lose one effectively balances this relative cost.
(Structural damage not repairable by the module)

This is effectively a new damage type, beyond whatever the drone uses itself. Your drones only fight at close range, meaning they need to chase down targets to get in weapons range. Changing targets is something causing downtime in your DPS as well, since the drones need to travel to it.

Advantages:
Your drones distract targets at times, taking the damage that would otherwise have gone to you.
Your drones can be swapped out like an ammo type, so you could use small medium or large. Sentry would be left out of this. They are already well defined.
Drones can be ordered for repairs, and be replaced by another on standby. Each module can only work towards repairing a single drone at a time. (Structural damage not repairable by the module, need to dock for this due to delicate work)

Disadvantages:
Your drones distract targets at times, taking the damage that would otherwise have gone to you. You could very well find yourself disarmed by a smart bombing target.
Needing to change targets for whatever reason is difficult. The drones need to chase them down every time.
Cumulative structural damage is more probable, and requires a repair-shop at an outpost.

Being a drone controlling ship makes you still a priority target, and like any other strategy has counters to it.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Kathern Aurilen
#15 - 2013-02-18 21:40:19 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
An interesting idea, but

Saithos wrote:
while sitting on the toilet


far too much information Big smile
Could have been worse... he could have said he was at the CRAPS table lol

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
Kathern Aurilen
#16 - 2013-02-18 21:47:13 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
So all the downsides plus talking up a slot and being a little tougher?

Sounds like a bad idea


^This

Drone turrets need to fetch new drone from cargo like normal ammo upon drone destruction, instead of drone bay, and not taking up existing bandwidth or # limit. Otherwise nobody will use a slot for it. You need to realize this is not free, you're sacrificing a gun for it.
Each slot would more than likely be an extra drone in space like the Guardian Vexor. Just a cloud of small drones up to the band with limit(which seams EXCESSIVE if ur flying something like a Vexor or another larger drone boat)

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-02-18 21:51:17 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
How about this:

Each of your replaced gun slots boosts it's drone to levels comparable to the DPS of the gun / launcher it would replace.
Forget the ammo use aspect, the drones ARE the ammo. Being able to lose one effectively balances this relative cost.
(Structural damage not repairable by the module)

This is effectively a new damage type, beyond whatever the drone uses itself. Your drones only fight at close range, meaning they need to chase down targets to get in weapons range. Changing targets is something causing downtime in your DPS as well, since the drones need to travel to it.

Advantages:
Your drones distract targets at times, taking the damage that would otherwise have gone to you.
Your drones can be swapped out like an ammo type, so you could use small medium or large. Sentry would be left out of this. They are already well defined.
Drones can be ordered for repairs, and be replaced by another on standby. Each module can only work towards repairing a single drone at a time. (Structural damage not repairable by the module, need to dock for this due to delicate work)

Disadvantages:
Your drones distract targets at times, taking the damage that would otherwise have gone to you. You could very well find yourself disarmed by a smart bombing target.
Needing to change targets for whatever reason is difficult. The drones need to chase them down every time.
Cumulative structural damage is more probable, and requires a repair-shop at an outpost.

Being a drone controlling ship makes you still a priority target, and like any other strategy has counters to it.


Drone size according to gun size. Small gun for light, Large gun for heavy and sentry, sentry attaches to turret and shoots from ship like regular gun.

Each gun loads 5 or so drones, only 1 deployed, with immediate deployment upon destruction of the 1 drone in space, 10 sec reload for drone type swap. Spare drones in cargo.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#18 - 2013-02-18 22:07:19 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
How about this:

Each of your replaced gun slots boosts it's drone to levels comparable to the DPS of the gun / launcher it would replace.
Forget the ammo use aspect, the drones ARE the ammo. Being able to lose one effectively balances this relative cost.
(Structural damage not repairable by the module)

This is effectively a new damage type, beyond whatever the drone uses itself. Your drones only fight at close range, meaning they need to chase down targets to get in weapons range. Changing targets is something causing downtime in your DPS as well, since the drones need to travel to it.

Advantages:
Your drones distract targets at times, taking the damage that would otherwise have gone to you.
Your drones can be swapped out like an ammo type, so you could use small medium or large. Sentry would be left out of this. They are already well defined.
Drones can be ordered for repairs, and be replaced by another on standby. Each module can only work towards repairing a single drone at a time. (Structural damage not repairable by the module, need to dock for this due to delicate work)

Disadvantages:
Your drones distract targets at times, taking the damage that would otherwise have gone to you. You could very well find yourself disarmed by a smart bombing target.
Needing to change targets for whatever reason is difficult. The drones need to chase them down every time.
Cumulative structural damage is more probable, and requires a repair-shop at an outpost.

Being a drone controlling ship makes you still a priority target, and like any other strategy has counters to it.


Drone size according to gun size. Small gun for light, Large gun for heavy and sentry, sentry attaches to turret and shoots from ship like regular gun.

Each gun loads 5 or so drones, only 1 deployed, with immediate deployment upon destruction of the 1 drone in space, 10 sec reload for drone type swap. Spare drones in cargo.

Not sure about sentry for this. This drone works so differently, having range for firing. Mounting one on your ship duplicates a regular turret so closely, what is the value to using it like this?

What I would suggest for these:
Have them deployable and then able to only function when on grid with the controller ship.
To be clear: You can leave these planted around like mini ambushes. They connect with your ship automatically by being on grid with you, and disconnect when you get too far.
Be able to deploy multiple sets in the same system. You can never control more than your bandwidth allows.

They can be stolen, if the taking pilot grabs them while you are off grid.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Callic Veratar
#19 - 2013-02-18 22:11:57 UTC
I like this idea. However, there are a few changes I would like to suggest:


  • A new set of size appropriate drones (SMLC) would be introduced that are slightly cheaper (100isk for S up to 10k for L)
  • The drones are not tanky in the slightest. The idea would be that they're cheap to replace.
  • Drones are reloaded directly from cargo, not the drone bay. Though, it should take a decent amount of time (20s plus docking time?).
  • They do not use ammo, they are ammo.
  • Each high slot module requires a permanent amount of bandwidth and a dedicated launcher hard point to fit. You can't mix and match between the drone systems all one way or the other.


In general, I like the idea very much, including the warping with you and such. I still think it's important to keep the existing drone system in, however, allowing a ship to use utility, ewar, or combat drones as desired.
Saithos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-02-18 22:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Saithos
Drake Doe wrote:
So all the downsides plus talking up a slot and being a little tougher?

Sounds like a bad idea


No. Perhaps you should re read the post. The drones would be dealing the equivalent damage of the normal weapons the ship class would equip.

Callic Veratar wrote:


In general, I like the idea very much, including the warping with you and such. I still think it's important to keep the existing drone system in, however, allowing a ship to use utility, ewar, or combat drones as desired.


As do I.
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