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One possible solution to AFK mining
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1 - 2013-02-16 19:38:23 UTC
Mining crystals. They already exist, so we're off to a good start right from the beginning.

Under this proposition, all strip miners (T1 or T2) would be reconfigured to require crystals in order to activate. The crystals themselves wear out faster than they currently do, say after one or two cycles. A Strip Miner I has a base cycle time of 180 seconds, or three minutes. So every three or six minutes, your crystal wears out and your mining stops. The strip miner can auto-reload with a fresh crystal, but the turret won't automatically reactivate (not that anything else in EVE reactivates itself after reloading). T1 and T2 strip miners will keep the current yield-per-cycle, and modulated strip miners will keep their current yield-per-cycle. The only thing that happens is the removal of strip miners being able to function without crystals.

Mining lasers would, I think, remain unchanged. Their yield is too low and the ships they're fitted to hold too little ore for AFKing to be of any real profit. If I'm completely mistaken, then they could require crystals too I suppose.

It also goes without saying that since crystals will be consumed at a significantly faster rate, they could be made smaller in order to allow more of them to fit in the cargo hold.

Honestly, the real solution to AFK mining is to make it something engaging that requires participation without turning it into a forced death march or something that everyone will hate. Since that kind of a fix is beyond my powers to outline, I offer up this much simpler interim idea instead.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2013-02-16 20:03:39 UTC
Discounting botting, (which is bad and should get you the ban hammer) what exactly is wrong, with AFK mining?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#3 - 2013-02-16 20:04:57 UTC
I don't understand, what is wrong with AFK mining?

When mining, I'm running multiple accounts and doing other stuff like reading a book, its part of the appeal like fishing.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#4 - 2013-02-16 20:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
So you're saying that while everyone else in the game has to be actively involved in their methods of ISK-making, you should be able to warp to a belt, press F1 and begin effectively earning ISK without any further interaction on your part?

Please ignore moon mining, as it's beyond the scope of this thread.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#5 - 2013-02-16 20:13:14 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
So you're saying that while everyone else in the game has to be actively involved in their methods of ISK-making, you should be able to warp to a belt, press F1 and begin effectively earning ISK without any further interaction on your part?

Please ignore moon mining, as it's beyond the scope of this thread.
If they are there pressing that button and then when the cargo is full, moving the ore by pressing more buttons, then yes.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#6 - 2013-02-16 20:15:03 UTC
Risk vs Reward, we sit in paper thin mining barges in 0.0 space for pennies, have you seen the market for mining?

And thats to make the good money, in highsec we are in the same paper thin ships, but now we are surrounded by neutrals who can suicide gank us.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Luc Chastot
#7 - 2013-02-16 20:18:01 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
So you're saying that while everyone else in the game has to be actively involved in their methods of ISK-making, you should be able to warp to a belt, press F1 and begin effectively earning ISK without any further interaction on your part?

Please ignore moon mining, as it's beyond the scope of this thread.


Not only that, but why would CCP want to keep a terribly designed game mechanic? However, I don't think this is a fix to AFK mining, it's only adding a chore to the mechanic itself; to fix AFK mining, CCP has to completely redesign mining and actually make it fun.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#8 - 2013-02-16 20:18:49 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Risk vs Reward, we sit in paper thin mining barges in 0.0 space for pennies, have you seen the market for mining?

And thats to make the good money, in highsec we are in the same paper thin ships, but now we are surrounded by neutrals who can suicide gank us.



...Paper thin? Did your barges somehow get omitted from the barge/exhumer buff? If you're mining in null surrounded by a sea of blues I can understand not fitting a tank, but if you fit a worthwhile tank in highsec you're much harder to gank.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#9 - 2013-02-16 20:20:16 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
So you're saying that while everyone else in the game has to be actively involved in their methods of ISK-making, you should be able to warp to a belt, press F1 and begin effectively earning ISK without any further interaction on your part?

Please ignore moon mining, as it's beyond the scope of this thread.


Not only that, but why would CCP want to keep a terribly designed game mechanic? However, I don't think this is a fix to AFK mining, it's only adding a chore to the mechanic itself; to fix AFK mining, CCP has to completely redesign mining and actually make it fun.


I absolutely completely agree that mining needs a total redesign from the ground up. As I already stated though, I can't actually suggest what that change might entail.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2013-02-16 20:23:42 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
So you're saying that while everyone else in the game has to be actively involved in their methods of ISK-making, you should be able to warp to a belt, press F1 and begin effectively earning ISK without any further interaction on your part?

Please ignore moon mining, as it's beyond the scope of this thread.


Not only that, but why would CCP want to keep a terribly designed game mechanic? However, I don't think this is a fix to AFK mining, it's only adding a chore to the mechanic itself; to fix AFK mining, CCP has to completely redesign mining and actually make it fun.
But it's far worse. Any system that requires you to do something, will so easily be done by botting. Therefore this only punishes those players who, although do other things, are actually playing the game.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#11 - 2013-02-16 20:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Mag's wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
So you're saying that while everyone else in the game has to be actively involved in their methods of ISK-making, you should be able to warp to a belt, press F1 and begin effectively earning ISK without any further interaction on your part?

Please ignore moon mining, as it's beyond the scope of this thread.


Not only that, but why would CCP want to keep a terribly designed game mechanic? However, I don't think this is a fix to AFK mining, it's only adding a chore to the mechanic itself; to fix AFK mining, CCP has to completely redesign mining and actually make it fun.
But it's far worse. Any system that requires you to do something, will so easily be done by botting. Therefore this only punishes those players who, although do other things, are actually playing the game.


With the exception of people who are multiboxing other accounts doing more entertaining things ingame while their alts are mining, are you playing the game? Is it still playing the game if you're not interacting with the game or with anyone else in the game except for 2-3 minutes to empty your ore hold and start mining again before going AFK?

Is that really "playing the game"?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-02-16 20:29:51 UTC
James316 has made an effective means to counter AFK mining.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#13 - 2013-02-16 20:35:44 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
James 315 has made an effective means to counter AFK mining.


Fixed for you.

Also.. although you may be right, I suspect it's less about AFK mining for him and his crew, and more about simply ganking barges.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2013-02-16 20:49:46 UTC
Last time I checked, its not particularly productive to be afk while mining ore. Seeing as your either in.null or low mining better and bigger roids, while needing to be on your toes to avoid the pod bus home, or your in highsec cycling roids fairly quickly due to them being on the anemic side...

The only real afk mining is ice, which is totally ignored in this thread, as is the 99% passive income of PI and to an extent manufacturing.
The fact is that there are many mechanics in.the game that are dull and bear little fruit they take time and patience more than player skill or anything else. That is held in balance by income rates.

Your lucky to get 7m an hour mining ice solo in high sec. Solo ore mining in high sec, about 12m an hour. Level 4 mission running, your into 25m+ if your doing it right in a T3 or the like, more in better ships. Null anom running, 50m - 70m+ isn't hard and more is available. Let's not get into incursion income for now.

So, how terrible is it that the miners, preyed upon by suicide gankers and miner bumpers from all over, make a pittance while they read a book or watch cute kittens on YouTube?

Afk ore mining is not an issue, because you need to pay a fair bit of attention unless your mining with one account. Ice mining... dear god I wish it was interesting. It wouldnt need to be more lucrative. just less soul destroying.

Bots are an issue. Although I'm curious what affect the removal of all bots fron the game would have on the economy. All that ice and tritanium consumed by the coalitions...

Anyway, if you want to make afk mining unfeasible, don't just make it more of a chore, make it interesting. Make miners WANT to pay more attention.

Friends
Mag's
Azn Empire
#15 - 2013-02-16 20:59:13 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


With the exception of people who are multiboxing other accounts doing more entertaining things ingame while their alts are mining, are you playing the game? Is it still playing the game if you're not interacting with the game or with anyone else in the game except for 2-3 minutes to empty your ore hold and start mining again before going AFK?

Is that really "playing the game"?
Yes. Because unless you empty your hold or simply simply continue to press buttons when needed, you stop mining.

It's not your place to decide, what people do in between button pressing. They pay for their account and they play as they like.

So far I'm not seeing any issue with AFK mining, that needs fixing.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kate stark
#16 - 2013-02-16 20:59:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
*looks at the price of a t2 crystal*
*looks at the value of 2 cycles of ore*

yeah, you're bad at maths.

also stopping the laser after 2 cycles already happens, it's called high sec asteroids.
bro, do you even mine?

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#17 - 2013-02-16 21:45:29 UTC
Mining, and a great many other things about PVE need serious attention. It's a part of EVE that gets very little Dev time, and it's a shame because part of what drew me in was world building and an interesting envirionment to explore and exploit. So much wasted potential in this game in the name of allowing griefers a place to grief people. Sandbox they call it, except that they left out the shovels for most of the PvE crowd, and we are kept just happy enough to continue to tolerate being picked on by the favored kids.

The solution to AFK mining is to develop a fun game around it so that people will not only want to make some money with it, but actually enjoy it.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#18 - 2013-02-16 21:59:50 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Mining, and a great many other things about PVE need serious attention. It's a part of EVE that gets very little Dev time, and it's a shame because part of what drew me in was world building and an interesting envirionment to explore and exploit. So much wasted potential in this game in the name of allowing griefers a place to grief people. Sandbox they call it, except that they left out the shovels for most of the PvE crowd, and we are kept just happy enough to continue to tolerate being picked on by the favored kids.

The solution to AFK mining is to develop a fun game around it so that people will not only want to make some money with it, but actually enjoy it.


The entire New Order just fell flat on its face. Unless I am mistaken, here is a person who joined EVE (at least in part) to mine.

/offtopic