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Can I even lift?

Author
Mateusz Armir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-16 11:55:42 UTC
Hello

I have started playing EVE around four months ago. Since then I try to have fun and earn some ISK at the same time and to tell the truth, I find it difficult.

I stay only in +0.7 systems, I want to earn the money for new Mackinaw, because I learned by the harsh way that AFK mining is not a smart option What?

How I play:
Option 1
I log in and jump to my Retriever. I choose system one jump away from Jita, farm scordite till the Ore Bay is full, sell it on Jita, and repeat.
I earn around 5,5 milion ISK per 40 minutes.
Its quite boring, I just have EVE minimalized on my bar, and when I hear "the asteroid is depleted" I just mine next one.
But at least I earn something.

Option 2
I log in and jump to my Drake. I take two level 1 security mission, and when I am back at the base after ~15 minutes I earn +150,000 ISK.
So its around ten times less than with mining.
Of course those missions are easy and my ship is not even scratched. I tried level 2 missions and they were also veery easy but rewards were not more generous. I even try to take every loot from destroyed ships but it is still less profitable then mining.
It is fun to see your ship piercing through the enemies and having seven missile launchers equiped, but I want to buy myself something new also.

Maby I am too much for PvE, and as I see EVE Online is almost all about player interacting other players. Is there any chance for me to earn money while doing something more interesting? Or everything is ok, this is just how the game looks, and only thing to change is my attitude for it?

PS. I played WoW before, maby I am just used to easy victories...
CerN Frostwolf
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-16 11:58:11 UTC
Mateusz Armir wrote:
Hello

I have started playing EVE around four months ago. Since then I try to have fun and earn some ISK at the same time and to tell the truth, I find it difficult.

I stay only in +0.7 systems, I want to earn the money for new Mackinaw, because I learned by the harsh way that AFK mining is not a smart option What?

How I play:
Option 1
I log in and jump to my Retriever. I choose system one jump away from Jita, farm scordite till the Ore Bay is full, sell it on Jita, and repeat.
I earn around 5,5 milion ISK per 40 minutes.
Its quite boring, I just have EVE minimalized on my bar, and when I hear "the asteroid is depleted" I just mine next one.
But at least I earn something.

Option 2
I log in and jump to my Drake. I take two level 1 security mission, and when I am back at the base after ~15 minutes I earn +150,000 ISK.
So its around ten times less than with mining.
Of course those missions are easy and my ship is not even scratched. I tried level 2 missions and they were also veery easy but rewards were not more generous. I even try to take every loot from destroyed ships but it is still less profitable then mining.
It is fun to see your ship piercing through the enemies and having seven missile launchers equiped, but I want to buy myself something new also.

Maby I am too much for PvE, and as I see EVE Online is almost all about player interacting other players. Is there any chance for me to earn money while doing something more interesting? Or everything is ok, this is just how the game looks, and only thing to change is my attitude for it?

PS. I played WoW before, maby I am just used to easy victories...


Drake is excellent for level 3 missions, just get your standings up a bit. I easily earn 2-5million per level 3 mission.
GreenSeed
#3 - 2013-02-16 12:05:02 UTC
you should be doing lvl3s on a battle cruiser.

lvl1 and lvl2s are for frigs and dessies.

now, lvl 4s are currently the direct competition to mining, and they still come out short unless you fully salvage the mission or you have a HAM Tengu, or any pirate bs that can do the missions faster, but those can take you a good 3 months to train into.

i would say, don't train more than exhumers one, and mine on a skiff cherry picking the good asteroids. while you do that, train for a tengu, since i guess you already have a week or two of training in cald cruiser/frig and missiles.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-16 12:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Mateusz Armir wrote:


I stay only in +0.7 systems, I want to earn the money for new Mackinaw, because I learned by the harsh way that AFK mining is not a smart option What?

..


Found your problem right here.
So you are trying to earn money to get a better ship to earn money to get an even better ship to earn money...etc.

Wrong approach to the whole game.
It is never enough money, no matter how much you have; if you are going down this path eve will never be fun for you.
It's the path to the dark side.

Running level 1s in a Drake sound boring as hell, maybe the cost for ammo exceeds the mission profit here. Drakes were meant for level 3 missions. Try to run Level 1's in a frig and they will become challenging again and you might even learn a little bit more about piloting your ship than just Jump in- fire missiles until everything is dead - jump out (you could use FoF missiles to make this even more mind numbing).
Get a destroyer or a cruiser (Caracal is good) for level 2 missions to grind up your standings so that you can access the level 3 agents. Level 3 Missions pay better. Salvage the wrecks for additional profit.
And above all: join a player corp and do something more exciting than grinding for isks all day.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Kate stark
#5 - 2013-02-16 12:17:43 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
skiff

bad advice and you should feel bad.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.

Lexmana
#6 - 2013-02-16 12:23:08 UTC
Quote:
I stay only in +0.7 systems

I think you are approaching the game the wrong way. Pick a frig/cruiser and go to lowsec. You can make more ISK belt rratting in lowsec than mining in highsec. And as an extra benefit you will meet other players that you can play with.
bbb2020
Carebears with Attitude
#7 - 2013-02-16 12:26:27 UTC
I agree with all the post above but would also say: Get away from Jita!
Find a new home somewhere in a quiet system, maybe even in an other region.
You should be able to get more ISK when you sell stuff on the marked.
Jita is just to hard a marked for a new player with your play style. Its an okay place to buy stuff but selling - No.
Skorpynekomimi
#8 - 2013-02-16 12:29:32 UTC
Run the highest level missions you can, until you have the standings for lv4 missions. Buy a battleship, run those. Once you have a decent viable setup, don't buy a 'better' ship; the BS is fine.
Then, you diversify. Make things with what you mine. Buy low and sell high, subsidise with missions/mining.

Economic PVP

Anthar Thebess
#9 - 2013-02-16 12:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Do some probing.
While i was living in high i was able to earn 2bil/month playing 2h a day.
How - quite simple.
Until you don't have trained T3 place 10-15 T1 scanning frigates (0.5-0.7 SS) - scanning rigs + t1 probe launcher + sisters probes.
Next thing is your main ship (BC) - it can have a codebreaker and if possible sisters core launcher in high slot. If you cannot probe something - you dock and change to t1 frigate.

You search for a combat sites lvl 3-4 and radar sites.

In combat sites you are interested only in pirate faction spawns and escalations.
You rarely find something in other wrecks.
Combat sites/escalations are main source of income - but you have to watch on this by a monthly income.
Every week you will find some valuable faction stuff that can be worth from 5-600mil or even 2bil if you are lucky in escalation to low.

Radar sites are less valuable. But provide stable source of income.
When you get to T3 you will skip them - but you can have from them 0-50mil daily income.

Magneto/Ladar/Gravi/WH - you can skip this.

If you want some additional income - train salvaging to lvl 4 and salvage faction ( only ) wrecks from sites.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#10 - 2013-02-16 12:41:31 UTC
Drakes can also do level fours, but you have to fit it right, pay attention, and have some experience.

However also to note:

Mission rewards are tied to the security level of the system. So if you are doing missions in a 0.7 system you are getting less reward per mission than you would in a low sec 0.3 system.

If you are doing missions with a clear goal in mind - earning isk for a ship, then perhaps you should look into doing Sisters of EvE EPIC ARC missions. Google them and read about them. They're a great way to make a bundle of ISK quickly, and don't require much more than a drake (except perhaps for the last mission where you may need a friend with more dps to help). You will easily make hundreds of millions of isk in rewards and items you can sell within a two or three days, depending how much you play.

The best ways to earn isk are neither mining nor missioning. Sorry to rain on your parade but mackinaws will just make you a jucier target for gankers. I'm not even sure if you'll be able to pay your ship off before you have to buy another one. Mining is only really "profitable" if you do it in nullsec in a sov holding alliance, or have many accounts and mine with them at the same time. Otherwise it's seen as the least profitable "career path".

As others have pointed out, doing higher level missions will far exceed any mining income possible in high sec. However there are other more profitable ways to make ISK than missions.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#11 - 2013-02-16 12:50:09 UTC
Mateusz Armir wrote:
I log in and jump to my Retriever. I choose system one jump away from Jita, farm scordite till the Ore Bay is full, sell it on Jita, and repeat.



This is where you problem is when mining. Move farther from Jita... Like 20 jumps. Find a system that has a reasonable market, but where everything is still really expensive. Mine in a .6 system because there are more ore types available. Also, don't sell each ore bay full at a time. Store them up in a station, wait days or even weeks to sell and you will get significantly more ISK for your time. Hauling is a waste when you can carry more at once. Join an industrial corporation. Orca support and ore buy back programs will save you a lot of time and earn you significantly more ISK. Also, being only 1 jump from Jita is not a great idea because frankly suicide gankers tend to hang around near the more popular systems that people mine in, so stay away from systems crammed full or miners and stay at least 4 jump away from the nearest lowsec entry if you can.

There's your mining sorted.

Now for missions, I am afraid it's just dedication. You need to get good enough standing to run levels fours. Because anything short of level fours is never that profitable. You will be able to run level fours in a maximally tanked drake without too much difficulty. The only problem you will have is dealing enough damage to kill some of the hardest NPCs. That said, once you get comfortable you can swap out a tank mod or two for a Ballistic Control, or swap to HAMs and use a MWD and you will have more DPS than you need.

Hope all the above helps.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Corey Fumimasa
Court of Gods
Tsundere Triad
#12 - 2013-02-16 13:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Mateusz Armir wrote:


Maby I am too much for PvE, and as I see EVE Online is almost all about player interacting other players. Is there any chance for me to earn money while doing something more interesting? Or everything is ok, this is just how the game looks, and only thing to change is my attitude for it?

PS. I played WoW before, maby I am just used to easy victories...


Welcome to Eve Mateusz, I find mining is good for thinking. Go and grind some rocks and think up something to do;

fit a rookie ship with nano's and MWD and head into lowsec, you'll be fine until you hit a disco camp, but you only lost a few hundred thousand.

Go get concorded a few times. Learn about flagging and aggression mechanics, its crazy how many people in Eve don't understand that aspect of the game.

Drop cans and shoot anyone that loots them, with a cheap ship because you will prolly die.

Try scanning.

Maybe doing the computer generated cargo runs, they are on the market window under "trade goods" you can buy stuff cheap then move it a few systems and sell at a profit.

Hang out in RvB systems and offer a ship assembly service; players can send you a fit, you buy and build it, then contract it to them at a markup.

Buy an ammo BP and start manufacturing; you might lose some isk, but you will learn a lot about marketing and may decide to pursue that career path.

Try mining in lowsec in a venture.

You have a stable income from mining and it is kind of fun sometimes. Use that income to explore other options in Eve, and don't worry so much about making a ton of ISK right away, learn the game a bit first. Best of luck in Eve, may profit and adventure not be too far off for you.
Corey Fumimasa
Court of Gods
Tsundere Triad
#13 - 2013-02-16 13:20:26 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
perhaps you should look into doing Sisters of EvE EPIC ARC missions. Google them and read about them. They're a great way to make a bundle of ISK quickly, and don't require much more than a drake (except perhaps for the last mission where you may need a friend with more dps to help).


The Sisters epic that I did was "Blood Stained Stars." It was fun; lots of travel, mostly very weak rats, I did 90% of it in a frigate 2 or 3 times I had to go and find a cruiser. Bringing anything bigger than a cruiser on that one will actually be slower overall just because of all the jumps involved.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#14 - 2013-02-16 13:47:14 UTC
Mateusz Armir wrote:


Option 2
I log in and jump to my Drake. I take two level 1 security mission, and when I am back at the base after ~15 minutes I earn +150,000 ISK.
So its around ten times less than with mining.
Of course those missions are easy and my ship is not even scratched. I tried level 2 missions and they were also veery easy but rewards were not more generous. I even try to take every loot from destroyed ships but it is still less profitable then mining.
It is fun to see your ship piercing through the enemies and having seven missile launchers equiped, but I want to buy myself something new also.

Maby I am too much for PvE, and as I see EVE Online is almost all about player interacting other players. Is there any chance for me to earn money while doing something more interesting? Or everything is ok, this is just how the game looks, and only thing to change is my attitude for it?

PS. I played WoW before, maby I am just used to easy victories...


You could make or buy a caracal and a scanning ship. With those ships you can probe radar sites.

Those don't require any standings. By scanning you could find a gravimetric site and you can go mine it with relative peace and some of them drop good minerals.
If you find radar systems caldari empire you will combat with your ships (pick the largest that can enter) and the "cans" at the end can get you some 70M+ modules as reward.

Once you get proficient with it, you can adventure to low sec and do the same, just this time you have to be careful about gate camps and people scanning you to get in your own scanned site.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-02-16 14:10:21 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
skiff

bad advice and you should feel bad.


Why?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#16 - 2013-02-16 14:24:18 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
skiff

bad advice and you should feel bad.


Why?


In highsec the only real reason for piloting a skiff is to protect valuable implants on an afk or alt-tabbed miner. Most people just don't tank their macks and thats the only real reason they are dying in any numbers.
Kate stark
#17 - 2013-02-16 14:55:38 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
skiff

bad advice and you should feel bad.


Why?


look at the numbers in the dev blog.

if the skiff wasn't a terrible idea, why are the numbers so low?

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.

Yuki Shin-Jan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-16 15:28:30 UTC
Sounds like you need an alt there OP. At the moment OP I'm a bit like yourself. Though I enjoy both PvP and PvE pretty equally.

A second account can help greatly improve the game for some. For example I have 2 chars.

One is my miner training into a hulk/mack and is currently sitting in a belt just generating isk for me all alone.. No one in system. Mining is great as it doesn't require much interaction. Just lock, mine, wait for 'has been depleted' then interact with it again.

The second char is a Freighter pilot in training but can use a destroyer with sufficient skills to go do l1/l2 missions if I want. Once she is into a Freighter I'll start her on full combat.

I guess the I like having one char just as a mining alt to generate isk to supply both my chars' isk demands safely. Which means my main char can do missions or even help mine in a venture or go trade or go get into trouble in null sec.

Oh! It helps to have a 2nd PC. I can mine both accounts on one PC than on the other I can play another game or watch tv/movies.