These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Dreadnaught Balancing
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
TheLegion
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-02-16 02:06:20 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
erm phenix, nag are better in the damage department. nag alone with 2artys/2 citidel torps has 80k vollys
phenix is a lot more. way i see it is this

NAG - high DPS / no TANK (primary)
PHENIX - high DPS better tank
MOROS - med DPS strong tank
REV - best tank average DPS

this is the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.

the way it ACTUALLY breaks down is like this:

moros: highest DPS by FAR (15k odd), best tracking by FAR, average tank, average cap.
rev: mediocre DPS (10.5k odd), mediocre tracking, good armour tank, best cap.
nag: great shield burst tank, slightly less mediocre dps (11.5k odd), mediocre tracking, worst cap.
phoenix: best tank, mediocre DPS (11k odd), non existent tracking (can only hit structures or stationary caps), bad cap

in all seriousness the moros is far and away the best dread. so much so that all the others are more or less irrelevant these days.

PS: wtf has volley got to do with DPS?


volley damage is a factor in dps, so, wtf u talkin about willis?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-02-16 02:07:22 UTC
Who cares about volleys?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#23 - 2013-02-16 02:08:35 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
erm phenix, nag are better in the damage department. nag alone with 2artys/2 citidel torps has 80k vollys
phenix is a lot more. way i see it is this

NAG - high DPS / no TANK (primary)
PHENIX - high DPS better tank
MOROS - med DPS strong tank
REV - best tank average DPS



What are you smoking? Moros is highest dps of them all. Nag and 'phenix' as you call it, are terrible in the damage department vs anything but stationary control towers.



... they are designed to shoot stationary objects...
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-02-16 02:13:57 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
NAG - 2x cit torp / 2x3500 siege arty 57k/40k vollys for 97k per shot. (weakest tank of the pack)
PRENIX - 3x cit torp launchers (all lows given to gank as shield hull) 86k per shot. (V good tank in siege)
MOROS - 3x ion siege blasters 39k per shot. (best all rounder with good DPS and reduced reload times)
REV - 3x duel gigga pulse 31k per shot. (insane buffer if hull tanked)


except for the fact that when you're in arty range, your turrets will literally fire off a second shot before your first torp volley even lands

so no, you don't have a 97k volley

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#25 - 2013-02-16 02:28:32 UTC
Andski wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
NAG - 2x cit torp / 2x3500 siege arty 57k/40k vollys for 97k per shot. (weakest tank of the pack)
PRENIX - 3x cit torp launchers (all lows given to gank as shield hull) 86k per shot. (V good tank in siege)
MOROS - 3x ion siege blasters 39k per shot. (best all rounder with good DPS and reduced reload times)
REV - 3x duel gigga pulse 31k per shot. (insane buffer if hull tanked)


except for the fact that when you're in arty range, your turrets will literally fire off a second shot before your first torp volley even lands

so no, you don't have a 97k volley


if you are as you say "in arty range" 88k(45k opt) then IMO you are doing it wrong. if you are commiting a dread to a POS BASH the get up in the POSs grill. you should be at most 30 -35km from the tower max.

and as it is (with missile flight time) only your first volly wil be lacking.
this is countered by the fact that your last volly will make up for the lost volly damage in your first shot
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#26 - 2013-02-16 02:41:11 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Who cares about volleys?

It isn't like you're trying to alpha slowcats or anything... I hope.

Towers sure don't work that way.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-02-16 02:47:35 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
Andski wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
NAG - 2x cit torp / 2x3500 siege arty 57k/40k vollys for 97k per shot. (weakest tank of the pack)
PRENIX - 3x cit torp launchers (all lows given to gank as shield hull) 86k per shot. (V good tank in siege)
MOROS - 3x ion siege blasters 39k per shot. (best all rounder with good DPS and reduced reload times)
REV - 3x duel gigga pulse 31k per shot. (insane buffer if hull tanked)


except for the fact that when you're in arty range, your turrets will literally fire off a second shot before your first torp volley even lands

so no, you don't have a 97k volley


if you are as you say "in arty range" 88k(45k opt) then IMO you are doing it wrong. if you are commiting a dread to a POS BASH the get up in the POSs grill. you should be at most 30 -35km from the tower max.

and as it is (with missile flight time) only your first volly wil be lacking.
this is countered by the fact that your last volly will make up for the lost volly damage in your first shot

If you're "getting up in the POS's grill" as you say, why wouldn't you use autocannons?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#28 - 2013-02-16 03:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Drifter
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
Andski wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
NAG - 2x cit torp / 2x3500 siege arty 57k/40k vollys for 97k per shot. (weakest tank of the pack)
PRENIX - 3x cit torp launchers (all lows given to gank as shield hull) 86k per shot. (V good tank in siege)
MOROS - 3x ion siege blasters 39k per shot. (best all rounder with good DPS and reduced reload times)
REV - 3x duel gigga pulse 31k per shot. (insane buffer if hull tanked)


except for the fact that when you're in arty range, your turrets will literally fire off a second shot before your first torp volley even lands

so no, you don't have a 97k volley


if you are as you say "in arty range" 88k(45k opt) then IMO you are doing it wrong. if you are commiting a dread to a POS BASH the get up in the POSs grill. you should be at most 30 -35km from the tower max.

and as it is (with missile flight time) only your first volly wil be lacking.
this is countered by the fact that your last volly will make up for the lost volly damage in your first shot

If you're "getting up in the POS's grill" as you say, why wouldn't you use autocannons?


artillery's will always hit in optimal... (you may land in falloff from a warp/jump for autocannons)
Merouk Baas
#29 - 2013-02-16 03:11:43 UTC
Discussion's gone sideways, but to answer the original post, not only are they going to "balance" dreads someday, but it looks like they're also going to change the training prerequisites so you can train to fly all of them in short order.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-02-16 03:31:16 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It isn't like you're trying to alpha slowcats or anything... I hope..


and what is the average ehp of those again?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2013-02-16 03:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Dark Drifter wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
if you are as you say "in arty range" 88k(45k opt) then IMO you are doing it wrong. if you are commiting a dread to a POS BASH the get up in the POSs grill. you should be at most 30 -35km from the tower max.

and as it is (with missile flight time) only your first volly wil be lacking.
this is countered by the fact that your last volly will make up for the lost volly damage in your first shot

If you're "getting up in the POS's grill" as you say, why wouldn't you use autocannons?

artillery's will always hit in optimal... (you may land in falloff from a warp/jump for autocannons)

If you're using blaster moros, wouldn't they be in an even worse state?

Unless you mean the structureshooting Moros fit uses Capital Railguns...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
iskflakes
#32 - 2013-02-16 04:16:29 UTC
Dreads are too powerful, they should have damage reduced by 50% to prevent them being better than supers and titans. Clearly 15k DPS on a moros is stupid when you consider an Erebus gets 8-10k at best (and the moros can blap subcaps). The phoenix would benefit from a tracking enhancer for missiles (one of Frozzie's proposed balancing changes that got shelved for now) so it can be used for blapping, and the nag needs a single weapon system.

-
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#33 - 2013-02-16 04:24:20 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
erm phenix, nag are better in the damage department. nag alone with 2artys/2 citidel torps has 80k vollys
phenix is a lot more. way i see it is this

NAG - high DPS / no TANK (primary)
PHENIX - high DPS better tank
MOROS - med DPS strong tank
REV - best tank average DPS



What are you smoking? Moros is highest dps of them all. Nag and 'phenix' as you call it, are terrible in the damage department vs anything but stationary control towers.



... they are designed to shoot stationary objects...

Those Moros definitely can shoot some moving battlecruisers for something designed for shooting stationary objects..

Add a web and TP or two each.... yeah Ugh

Least what i've heard from people who use them Smile

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-02-16 04:24:52 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Dreads are too powerful, they should have damage reduced by 50% to prevent them being better than supers and titans. Clearly 15k DPS on a moros is stupid when you consider an Erebus gets 8-10k at best (and the moros can blap subcaps). The phoenix would benefit from a tracking enhancer for missiles (one of Frozzie's proposed balancing changes that got shelved for now) so it can be used for blapping, and the nag needs a single weapon system.


"guys i don't actually know anything about capitals"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-02-16 04:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
watch iskflakes dig a hole for himself while he tries to argue that a ship that is required to be stationary for five minutes in order to be useful is superior to a ship that does not have to do that, deals 80% of the DPS with turrets alone, has a primary weapon that does 3 million damage, has several times the lock speed and the ability to refit into a 40 million EHP tank

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
fukier
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-02-16 04:44:23 UTC
Andski wrote:
watch iskflakes dig a hole for himself while he tries to argue that a ship that is required to be stationary for five minutes in order to be useful is superior to a ship that does not have to do that, deals 80% of the DPS with turrets alone, has a primary weapon that does 3 million damage, has several times the lock speed and the ability to refit into a 40 million EHP tank


wtf man....

thats two pages of potential trolling gold you just prevented.

fml.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-02-16 04:48:01 UTC
TheLegion wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Dark Drifter wrote:
erm phenix, nag are better in the damage department. nag alone with 2artys/2 citidel torps has 80k vollys
phenix is a lot more. way i see it is this

NAG - high DPS / no TANK (primary)
PHENIX - high DPS better tank
MOROS - med DPS strong tank
REV - best tank average DPS

this is the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.

the way it ACTUALLY breaks down is like this:

moros: highest DPS by FAR (15k odd), best tracking by FAR, average tank, average cap.
rev: mediocre DPS (10.5k odd), mediocre tracking, good armour tank, best cap.
nag: great shield burst tank, slightly less mediocre dps (11.5k odd), mediocre tracking, worst cap.
phoenix: best tank, mediocre DPS (11k odd), non existent tracking (can only hit structures or stationary caps), bad cap

in all seriousness the moros is far and away the best dread. so much so that all the others are more or less irrelevant these days.

PS: wtf has volley got to do with DPS?


volley damage is a factor in dps, so, wtf u talkin about willis?


factor, yes. relevant stat to compare dreads on, no.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#38 - 2013-02-16 04:49:39 UTC
fukier wrote:
Andski wrote:
watch iskflakes dig a hole for himself while he tries to argue that a ship that is required to be stationary for five minutes in order to be useful is superior to a ship that does not have to do that, deals 80% of the DPS with turrets alone, has a primary weapon that does 3 million damage, has several times the lock speed and the ability to refit into a 40 million EHP tank

wtf man....

thats two pages of potential trolling gold you just prevented.

fml.

The doomsday...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ai Shun
#39 - 2013-02-16 04:50:56 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
USES SEARCH!


Or it gets the hose?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-02-16 06:21:29 UTC
Andski wrote:
watch iskflakes dig a hole for himself while he tries to argue that a ship that is required to be stationary for five minutes in order to be useful is superior to a ship that does not have to do that, deals 80% of the DPS with turrets alone, has a primary weapon that does 3 million damage, has several times the lock speed and the ability to refit into a 40 million EHP tank

Not to mention it never ever has to rely on local reps.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Previous page123Next page