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Rise in Suicide Ganking?
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Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#61 - 2013-02-15 15:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Eh, don't bother. Jorma has been posting for years now.
Wasn' t the sharpest tool in the shed before, nothings changed.

Tutoring Jorma in economics is like showing a chicken the Space Shuttle.


For you economy means "only lazy people can earn money".

In other words (in EVE):
Economy: ganker gets profit
Non-economy: miner gets profit


Are you RPing Minmatar here?
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#62 - 2013-02-15 15:36:27 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Eh, don't bother. Jorma has been posting for years now.
Wasn' t the sharpest tool in the shed before, nothings changed.

Tutoring Jorma in economics is like showing a chicken the Space Shuttle.


For you economy means "only lazy people can earn money".

In other words (in EVE):
Economy: ganker gets profit
Non-economy: miner gets profit


Are you RPing Minmatar here?


Textbook example of Dunning - Kruger effect in action.

Don't make excuses for it, just accept it.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-02-15 15:39:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:



A Procurer costs 7 Million ISK, and has almost 30K EHP untanked. Yeah, makes sense. What?

Fun fact. My arbi with a 1600 plate has less tank than an untanked procurer. It also barely out tanks an untanked mack which now has a bigger base EHP than the heavy assault ships.

you know what to do: start arbi-geddon with all power of your mighty alliance.
And after some time CCP will buff it.

(we all know that ganking arbitrators isn't fun and profitable anyway)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-02-15 15:45:18 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Textbook example of Dunning - Kruger effect in action.

Don't make excuses for it, just accept it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-02-15 15:50:48 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:

Whatever people think about ganking, its an active process. Gankers are actually 'playing' the game. Gankers need to know exactly how the game works - how to deal with Concord, how to assess a target, how to compromise those fits, how to work as a team. On top of handling logistics and 'white knights'. All at our expense in terms of extra accounts, ISK and effort.

not a ganker here but let me try.
-how to deal with CONCORD - shoot and wait until it kills you? (oh, i forgot about spawning CONCORD somewhere far away... yes, that was great tactics :hands down:)
-how to assess a target - setup your overview to show mining barges/exumers?
-how to compromise those fits - open EFT, enter results of ship scanner, press "ALL V" and see where lowest EHP is? Yes, need to agree: choosing right Catalyst fit and ammo is complex task....
-how to work as a team: neutral cloaked scouts, fleet warp and broadcasting target?
-handling logistics: loading "clean" Orca in trade hub, dropping ship from "clean" Orca, boarding it with ganking alt and warp to target?
Yea, need to agree: all of it sounds like rocket science.....

Herr Wilkus wrote:

Catalysts and Tornados weren't designed for gankers. Orca's weren't designed for ninjas. But we MADE them work, and when CCP discovered it, they nerfed them.

exactly. That's why Catalysts are paper-tank cannons and can still be used for ganking (even after mining barges buff).
Tornadoes? I dunno. I have never heard about glass-cannon battlecruiser with DPS of battleship and agility of cruiser. And i have never heard about freighters killed by gank of tornadoes....

PS: i like name of your corp TEARS. This is what i see in your posts lately Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Lascivit Mercator
#66 - 2013-02-15 16:01:36 UTC
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...

I like to multiply with sheep
Verfanny
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#67 - 2013-02-15 16:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Verfanny
Why is everything in GD always devolving about miners vs nullsec players?

It always goes like this:

Player 1:
Ha ha I'm a high sec player and like them potatoes.

Player 2:
AARRRRGH Those filthy gardeners can get many potatoes without risking their nuts, it's not fair for us mighty nullsec.

Player 3:
Why do you care about potatoes when you get infinite carrots because of your blue donut?

etc...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-02-15 16:14:51 UTC
Lascivit Mercator wrote:
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...


Falcon is a bad ship for anything like that.

Mostly because you have massive targeting delay after decloaking = gank is already over before Falcon gets target lock.

Rook? What? You want to shoot gankers? Try 800mm Nado instead = even max fitted Catalyst goes down with two volleys of RF Fusion L.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#69 - 2013-02-15 16:21:31 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Lascivit Mercator wrote:
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...


Falcon is a bad ship for anything like that.

Mostly because you have massive targeting delay after decloaking = gank is already over before Falcon gets target lock.

Rook? What? You want to shoot gankers? Try 800mm Nado instead = even max fitted Catalyst goes down with two volleys of RF Fusion L.


Jorma Morkiss in "sensible post in a suicide ganking thread" sensation!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#70 - 2013-02-15 16:23:28 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Lascivit Mercator wrote:
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...


Falcon is a bad ship for anything like that.

Mostly because you have massive targeting delay after decloaking = gank is already over before Falcon gets target lock.

Rook? What? You want to shoot gankers? Try 800mm Nado instead = even max fitted Catalyst goes down with two volleys of RF Fusion L.


Prolly just having a logi ship on grid would be enough to dissuade gankers. Give a noob a few million to leave a couple of mining lazers off and fit remote repper's. Of course they may gank the noob, but thats ok, better than loosing a barge.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#71 - 2013-02-15 16:25:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Lascivit Mercator wrote:
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...


Falcon is a bad ship for anything like that.

Mostly because you have massive targeting delay after decloaking = gank is already over before Falcon gets target lock.

Rook? What? You want to shoot gankers? Try 800mm Nado instead = even max fitted Catalyst goes down with two volleys of RF Fusion L.


Jorma Morkiss in "sensible post in a suicide ganking thread" sensation!

It won't last.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-02-15 16:29:37 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
It won't last.


True, but you can't expect much from quad Gyro quad SeBo Nado. If someone wants it destroyed, not much tank to stop them.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#73 - 2013-02-15 16:30:54 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Lascivit Mercator wrote:
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...


Falcon is a bad ship for anything like that.

Mostly because you have massive targeting delay after decloaking = gank is already over before Falcon gets target lock.

Rook? What? You want to shoot gankers? Try 800mm Nado instead = even max fitted Catalyst goes down with two volleys of RF Fusion L.


Jorma Morkiss in "sensible post in a suicide ganking thread" sensation!

It won't last.


That's why it's so sensational.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-02-15 16:37:38 UTC
Verfanny wrote:
Why is everything in GD always devolving about miners vs nullsec players?

It always goes like this:

Player 1:
Ha ha I'm a high sec player and like them potatoes.

Player 2:
AARRRRGH Those filthy gardeners can get many potatoes without risking their nuts, it's not fair for us mighty nullsec.

Player 3:
Why do you care about potatoes when you get infinite carrots because of your blue donut?

etc...


Panties. Meet wad.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#75 - 2013-02-15 16:41:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
March rabbit wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:

Whatever people think about ganking, its an active process. Gankers are actually 'playing' the game. Gankers need to know exactly how the game works - how to deal with Concord, how to assess a target, how to compromise those fits, how to work as a team. On top of handling logistics and 'white knights'. All at our expense in terms of extra accounts, ISK and effort.

not a ganker here but let me try.
-how to deal with CONCORD - shoot and wait until it kills you? (oh, i forgot about spawning CONCORD somewhere far away... yes, that was great tactics :hands down:)
-how to assess a target - setup your overview to show mining barges/exumers?
-how to compromise those fits - open EFT, enter results of ship scanner, press "ALL V" and see where lowest EHP is? Yes, need to agree: choosing right Catalyst fit and ammo is complex task....
-how to work as a team: neutral cloaked scouts, fleet warp and broadcasting target?
-handling logistics: loading "clean" Orca in trade hub, dropping ship from "clean" Orca, boarding it with ganking alt and warp to target?
Yea, need to agree: all of it sounds like rocket science.....


Here is your homework assignment:
Write a script that can accomplish these tasks. Have yet to hear complaints about botting gankers.

The takeaway was, in case you missed it - was a comparison between activity level of miners and gankers. Didn't say ganking required a genius IQ - but it does require know-how and taking an interest in game mechanics.

Contrast that with miners who regularly leave slots empty on their Exhumers despite seeing barges exploding around them. Gank resistant, tanked Hulk/Mack fits were common place on the forums, the best fits often provided by the gankers themselves. And tanks weren't even strictly necessary - if you simply paid attention and stayed aligned.

If miners showed an equivalent interest in EVE game mechanics and fitting - rather than simply grinding ISK AFK with zero effort while watching movies - our ganking success rates would fall off to almost zero overnight. And miners who actively took an interest in their survival did quite well for themselves - pre-buff.

Gankers, who haven't figured this stuff out, fail all the time. Due to random number damage generation and random loot drops, even the best of us fail now and again. Because its a relatively complex task, and a single misclick or lag spike sinks you. And these days, ganking miners isn't even really profitable with max skills and perfect tactics. Fortunately, the ganking community is quick to assist the new gankers, and show them the ropes, help them get started. The sort of thing that I thought EVE was about.

Yet CCP changed game mechanics to REWARD disinterested, lazy, and automated play. ISBoxing, Massive cargo bays, 4x EHP, faster Concord, boarding/ejecting restrictions on gankers, increase sec penalties and kill rights.

Because botting, mining while tabbed out, running fleets of 20-100 Barges with garbage names and a 3rd party utility, thats EVE right?
Kate stark
#76 - 2013-02-15 16:57:36 UTC
Lascivit Mercator wrote:
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...


because they aren't mining?
bit of a give away.. MINING op.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-02-15 17:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Kate stark wrote:
Lascivit Mercator wrote:
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...


because they aren't mining?
bit of a give away.. MINING op.


But it is a very good way to test how smart or stupid ganker (yes, they work solo, no team spirit) actually is.

Though I have yet to see successful anti-gank. They are usually too smart or underestimate capabilities of their ships.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#78 - 2013-02-15 18:14:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
So the mining buffs do seem excessive; however I just took a procurer into lowsec to try out this incredible tank. I sent my drones after billbaords and sentry guns and gates. Attacked passing frigates with impunity. And eventually died in an epic fireball running for the gate from 4 other ships. It was really a lot of fun.

Next time Im going to drop the ancillary shield booster for ECM, and fit a drone link aug in the high or something. This ship isn't just a miner, what it really allows is for miners to get used to fighting a ship. Frig combat happens too quickly to learn from, this thing took almost a minute to kill. And all for 10 million ISK or something. Maybe thats what CCP was thinking when they designed it.

In any case if you like to mine, get one of those things and head into lowsec preferably with a few budides in the system behind you. I recommend a name like "bait ship one" or something.
Kate stark
#79 - 2013-02-15 18:17:00 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Lascivit Mercator wrote:
why every mining op doesn't include a scimmy and a falcon/rook is beyond me...


because they aren't mining?
bit of a give away.. MINING op.


But it is a very good way to test how smart or stupid ganker (yes, they work solo, no team spirit) actually is.

Though I have yet to see successful anti-gank. They are usually too smart or underestimate capabilities of their ships.


the successful anti gank is called the retriever. i see them everywhere.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#80 - 2013-02-15 18:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: I Love Boobies
Put on a damage control, a couple invulnerability fields. Also, I am assuming you are using a Orca for boosting if you're doing mining ops like that. Put on shield and armor boosting command mods instead of all mining mods. Just put on the time reduction mining command module. Get 30k hp that way with decent shield resists. Also, keep repair drones in your Orca.

Also, noticed you put on rigs that increase your sig radius, which is a bad thing. Try to get your sig radius as low as possible.