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T3 mining ships
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Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2011-10-02 19:00:06 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
we'd still suicide them

all miners will hang


killing miners is just a loss for nullsec, 90%+ of all the minerals are mined by miners in highsec, so killing them would result in skyrocket prices of regular minerals, which will include all ships made out of it. you really wanna pay 100mill for a frigate? xD

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James Biggles
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2011-10-05 16:24:41 UTC
instead of going T3 mining ships a complete rewamp of the construction of capitalships and supers could be a way to go, change what goes into a capital ship so that you can only farm the resources needed to build them in 0.0

Then add ships that are big nice and tasty to shoot up that can mine this mythical stuff that goes into your caps.
Say a carriersize miningbarge that can fit some sort of supermining laser that while it can mine regular stuff i isn't profitable
because it has to siege or because it consumes fuel when it turns this supermining laser on, so it is only usefull to people that want to build a supercap.

So that you can build subcaps out of the stuff in highsec, in low sec you can mine the stuff you need to build subcaps and regular capitals, and in 0.0 you can mine all of the above, however you can only mine the magical dreamstuff that titans and motherships are made of from upgraded industrial systems, say a limited magical dreamstuff from small and a little more out of mediums, large is 50% and x-large and giant is mostly magical dreamstuff.

This would add a new angle to sov warfare, you would have to protect your mining op, and lets face it if i dangled 5 sieged carrier size targets in front of Legionxdeath, goons, white noice or whatnot with the promise of say a billion isk KM and a slowing of your opponents supercap building schemes, there would be tears somewhere, if not the miners then the people trying to stop them mining.

In my oppinion the way it is currently going where the big alliances buy their capitals from people in lowsec and just freighter in the bulk of the lowend minerals from highsec, isn't how it should be.... however that is my oppinion i am sure someone in 1 or 2 posts will have something completely diffrent to say about the matter.
Serial Chi
White Knights of Equestria
#63 - 2011-10-05 19:49:54 UTC
looking at the new dev blogs.... looks like this will just be a dream.
Joanna RB
JoJo Industries n Shipbreakers
#64 - 2011-10-05 22:13:43 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
There can never be more yield than a Hulk. CCP won't accept that, as it would affect the markets.


If you put a kink in the mineral supply from drone regions (by getting rid of Plush Compunds) and looting (getting rid of all M0 drops and making M1-4 refine more worthless) you can balance it with higher miner yeild. After all 'everything you fly comes from the miner', or is supposed to.

How about a T3 strip miner rather than a T3 barge? Just make sure its not another POS-owner only system though, POS-owners already get far too much of the game to themselves. 99.5% of the playerbase never get the roles needed to run POSses, and of the 0.5% that do, around 95% of them are in 1-man or alt corps. POS-owners already get far too much of the game (and the isk income) exclusive to themselves. A player starting up today has more chance of eventually flying a supercap than getting pos rights.
Marcus Caspius
#65 - 2011-10-25 15:49:07 UTC
My 2 cents - a Crystal Bay that offers bonus to the storage of Mining Crystals. Its a right ROYAL pain in the @R5E to haul Crystals to and from a belt...

Grammatical error and spelling mistakes are included for your entertainment!
Winlet Dorn
Doomheim
#66 - 2011-10-25 16:00:06 UTC
In reading what CCP has put out there, I don't think we'll ever get a better mining ship than the Hulk.

However, i''ve actually been thinking of this for a while, and there is a way to produce a T3 mining ship, but keep the actual yield per ship the same. I had a whole backstory worked up on it and everything (but lost the stats I worked up).
Abadayos
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#67 - 2011-10-26 12:30:58 UTC
I have an idea that would possibly make a T3 'miner' ship both required and viable.

Star mining. Yep you heard it right. There is 1 in every system and what do we do with them? Use them for free lighting on our ship hulls and that's about it.

Now here is a VERY vague idea I had running through my head whilst reading this thread:

Each star has a different class and luminosity that dictates it's color, most of us know and understand that and how stars work. Now we all know how much power they generate and all the fun stuff that happens with sun spots and stuff like that (for those that don't, here is a wikilink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunspot ).

Now my idea is mining the sun for antimatter isotopes from sun spots and solar flares. I have no idea if it's possible in physics but hey, we shoot things with lasers and pew pew in space ships so we are all open minded enough to ignore that part.

Now the use of the T3 mine would be to be able to survive close enough to the sun to harvest these anti-matter isotopes and contain them safely. The ships would be modular like the current cruisers with a relatively low cargo space (most of it would be taken up with shielding and containment systems for the anti-matter. There could be sub systems that grant bigger cargo spaces but remove the ability to hold anti-matter and another to possibly boost mining yield to be about 70-80% of a Hulks yield, but NOT more. Being so close tot he sun would permit a stronger shield tank, but it in a skill based 5% mod/lvl or just more slots for a better tank. Also being able to have 2 hi's for the steller miners (sorry, not got a better name for them...it's a fresh idea).

Also unrefined anti-matter could only be transported by the T3 miner to the refining location. Once the anti-matter is refined it's easier to transport and thus not needing a specialised cargo hold (think that ship with a general cargo hold, Command Center cargo hold and PI crap cargo hold. Having a General cargo hold, very small, and an antimatter hold which is larger)


Now...what the hell would Anti-Matter be used in? Well could be refined and combined either at a PoS or using PI to make tech 3 ordinance and newer propulsion sub systems and engineering sub systems. After all they have to be powered somehow...why not throw a chunk of refined and augmented antimatter for all your new power needs?

The advantage is it doesn't touch the current mineral market due to being worse than a Hulk at mining and making something different to 'mine'. Idea needs fleshing out but if it's any good it would no doubt get some attention.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#68 - 2011-10-26 17:18:20 UTC
James Biggles wrote:
instead of going T3 mining ships a complete rewamp of the construction of capitalships and supers could be a way to go, change what goes into a capital ship so that you can only farm the resources needed to build them in 0.0

Then add ships that are big nice and tasty to shoot up that can mine this mythical stuff that goes into your caps.
Say a carriersize miningbarge that can fit some sort of supermining laser that while it can mine regular stuff i isn't profitable
because it has to siege or because it consumes fuel when it turns this supermining laser on, so it is only usefull to people that want to build a supercap.

So that you can build subcaps out of the stuff in highsec, in low sec you can mine the stuff you need to build subcaps and regular capitals, and in 0.0 you can mine all of the above, however you can only mine the magical dreamstuff that titans and motherships are made of from upgraded industrial systems, say a limited magical dreamstuff from small and a little more out of mediums, large is 50% and x-large and giant is mostly magical dreamstuff.

This would add a new angle to sov warfare, you would have to protect your mining op, and lets face it if i dangled 5 sieged carrier size targets in front of Legionxdeath, goons, white noice or whatnot with the promise of say a billion isk KM and a slowing of your opponents supercap building schemes, there would be tears somewhere, if not the miners then the people trying to stop them mining.

In my oppinion the way it is currently going where the big alliances buy their capitals from people in lowsec and just freighter in the bulk of the lowend minerals from highsec, isn't how it should be.... however that is my oppinion i am sure someone in 1 or 2 posts will have something completely diffrent to say about the matter.



How does one fit so many misconceptions in a single post?

You don't have any idea how current supercap industry works do you?
Jin Jurayle
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2011-10-26 18:08:45 UTC
Just throwin the idea out there. How about as a T3 ship .... a mining & refining ship?
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#70 - 2011-10-26 18:25:15 UTC
Jin Jurayle wrote:
Just throwin the idea out there. How about as a T3 ship .... a mining & refining ship?


No.
Anachronic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2011-10-26 18:37:56 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Jin Jurayle wrote:
Just throwin the idea out there. How about as a T3 ship .... a mining & refining ship?


No.



+1...no reason for a refining ship...it would make POS refining more obselete than it already is...also...no
Velicitia
XS Tech
#72 - 2011-10-26 19:03:02 UTC
Anachronic wrote:
XXSketchxx wrote:
Jin Jurayle wrote:
Just throwin the idea out there. How about as a T3 ship .... a mining & refining ship?


No.



+1...no reason for a refining ship...it would make POS refining more obselete than it already is...also...no


+1 for better POS refineries!

also, no to the refining ship.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-10-26 19:47:27 UTC
Battle On wrote:
killing miners is just a loss for nullsec, 90%+ of all the minerals are mined by miners in highsec

No they aren't.
Anachronic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2011-10-26 20:07:55 UTC
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
Battle On wrote:
killing miners is just a loss for nullsec, 90%+ of all the minerals are mined by miners in highsec

No they aren't.



this...have you seen the amount of minerals that come out of mission loot and drone poo?
caliis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2011-10-26 20:32:13 UTC
the main thing miners need are stronger tank not more yield. one of the reasons mining in low and null sec is not tried is it isn't worth the money. you make more fitting a combat ship and ratting then you do mining in null sec. but ratting in low sec is risking PVP from other ships. so simply put a t3 miner should be based on skills and in relation should AT BEST mine like a hulk tank like a ratter, and be able to kill rats.

evidence of this is hulks in .5 . rats dont kill a correctly trained miner, also a well trained miner can kill rats in .5. these 2 things should translate to T3 mining ship in 0.0. pvp is a different story but does translate to hulks get ganked in high sec, theyll get ganked in low sec just wont be easy as f1,f2,f3

p.s. i know hulks can tank and kill rats in 0.0 with the right build. I'm talking better then now.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#76 - 2011-10-26 20:54:37 UTC
In addition to this, the sources of minerals need to be looked into. As a miner, someone needs a REALLY GOOD incentive to risk a 200m ISK ship in lowsec. Right now, those incentives aren't really there since lowsec ore isn't exactly "better" than what you can get in hisec. Sure the yields are better -- but the value of what you're getting isn't necessarily high enough to warrant lowsec mining.

Make lowsec have a place as a GOOD source of minerals... and then the miners will head over that way...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Anachronic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2011-10-26 21:20:11 UTC
caliis wrote:
p.s. i know hulks can tank and kill rats in 0.0 with the right build. I'm talking better then now.


So let me get this straight...you want a hulk to be able to do something it is already able to do sufficiently...better. In your other thread you more or less said you want a T3 mining ship to be able to rat while it mines. This isn't going to happen. The hulk is just fine where it is being able to tank and just defend itself enough as well as pull in ludicrous amounts of ore. We don't need a permatanking mining ship that can hold off a 0.0 rat wave on it's own.
Page Starcaster
Blue Angels Mining Company
#78 - 2011-10-26 22:02:53 UTC
T3 mining ship should have less yield than a hulk with a better tank and a small jumpdrive (like the ones black ops use).

Even just have a T3 battleship subsystem that adds mining bonus to the ship. As it is the Rokh can out mine a retriever, only a covetor or hulk out mine it. The T3 battleship with mining subsystem could have a yield slightly better than the covetor but not as good as the hulk. Add the value of a T3 tank and a possibly a small jump drive and solo mining in low and null might be feasible. The cost of a T3 battleship should be in the 3-4 bil isk range(since a T3 cruiser if I recall corectly is currently 1-2 bil isk with a full set of subsystems) keeping it as an elite ship not all miners would use.

Any ships with an increase in yield will only drop the mineral prices even more.
caliis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2011-10-27 02:50:39 UTC
Anachronic wrote:


So let me get this straight...you want a hulk to be able to do something it is already able to do sufficiently...better. .


"yep" same as combat pilots do. since more combat in a new ships seems to be the norm why not have it so better hulks mine the same but fight better?
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2011-10-27 03:50:57 UTC
stratigic miner... better tank, gas harvesting bonuses, 5 high slots to fit five gas harvesters (or six highs if you think a cloak and 5 are necessary), no strip miner mountability, largish cargo... fair sized drone bay.

Hulks are fine as the top miner.. but they need a bit of love to get what I suggest should be higher EHP for a hulk,

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