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Crime & Punishment

 
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James 315's "CSM Platform" May Begin The Decline Of the New Order
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Syds Sinclair
StratsCo
Pretenders
#101 - 2013-02-15 04:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Syds Sinclair
..Xanthe, wouldn't it be cool if the highsec non consensual PvP rules weren't as strict as they are now? I mean, if that were the case, you could actually be in space stopping The New Order by force, rather then whining about it on the forums.

♠ Sinclair Consulting ♠
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#102 - 2013-02-15 06:22:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Mira Robinson wrote:
Then today, he lays out his "CSM Platform", and now I realize the terrible roleplaying was fodder as well. All this talk of representing highsec, making it better, encouraging at-the-keyboard play, then to just...turn his back on it with this "nerf everything about highsec into oblivion".

Why are you talking like you think these things are mutually exclusive?

Intar Medris wrote:
Except one glaring ******* problem High sec is basically the life blood of EVE. Whether it is PVE, PVP, or Trading, and whatever else takes place in high sec. You think think it sucks now when it comes to finding what you need. Wait till every High sec industrialist, and trader quits. Risk vs Reward is the biggest lie about this game no matter CCP does. Not that CCP will listen to someone as freaking ******** as James315. Best way to kill EVE is to kill High Sec.

I started my Eve career as a miner/industrialist. I did this in a 0.2 in an imicus. If I wasn't mining back home I was in high sec selling, shopping, hanging out with and helping newbies and various other stuff. Back then nobody "played" AFK. Concord could be killed and they could be escaped from. The "safety" mechanics in general were a lot less safe than they are now. It was originally a place for new players and relatively less dangerous trade hubs. When they expanded the size of it and started making it safer and safer I stopped going there entirely. You know what will kill Eve? Turning it into WoW. Just like it killed SWTOR. Eve is unique in that it's the only MMO whose population gets higher over time instead of lower. When It stops being different it stops providing any motivation to play it, just like high sec stopped providing any motivation for me to "carebear". Nerfing high sec won't get rid of industrials or traders. It'll get rid of the entitled WoW kiddies and return Eve to its glory days. The traders and industrialists who actually belong here will be making more ISK than ever.
Xanthe Isgar
Doomheim
#103 - 2013-02-15 06:32:51 UTC
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..Xanthe, wouldn't it be cool if the highsec non consensual PvP rules weren't as strict as they are now? I mean, if that were the case, you could actually be in space stopping The New Order by force, rather then whining about it on the forums.


I could care less, I'm not a miner.

The whole premise of suicide ganking is self-defeating. It serves no real purpose other than to inflict a certain playstyle on others. For pirates, I get it. Yarr and all that. To gank AFKers, great...you're performing a public service because AFKers suck. More power to ya.

But the whole mining permit crap and all the self-serving chatter, it's just silly.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#104 - 2013-02-15 06:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Xanthe Isgar wrote:
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..Xanthe, wouldn't it be cool if the highsec non consensual PvP rules weren't as strict as they are now? I mean, if that were the case, you could actually be in space stopping The New Order by force, rather then whining about it on the forums.


I could care less, I'm not a miner.

The whole premise of suicide ganking is self-defeating. It serves no real purpose other than to inflict a certain playstyle on others. For pirates, I get it. Yarr and all that. To gank AFKers, great...you're performing a public service because AFKers suck. More power to ya.

But the whole mining permit crap and all the self-serving chatter, it's just silly.

I'm an inch away from demanding mining permits myself after reading threads like this.
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#105 - 2013-02-15 18:49:43 UTC
Xanthe Isgar wrote:


You in particular, BBB, since you are one of the more vocal proponents of the "New Order". What did you do in Eve before all of this came along? Were you just another hapless nobody? Were you just spinning ships and considering cancelling your sub? Where would YOU be without the New Order and James315?


Well, one thing I was doing, and still am, was posting on my main....

But in game, I was a can flipper. A look at my killboard shows the story. I spent my nights and weekends patrolling my 12 system loop of Caldari highsec in my trusty Rifter. Whenever I found a miner with a can out, I flipped their ore into my can. And then I began a process of social engineering that only a fellow can flipper can understand.

You see, what I wanted was to somehow make my target do something he really didn't want to do. What he wanted, was to get his ore back and ignore me. But that didn't use to be an option. No, he had to make a decision between several choices, none of them desirable.

Whether it was to abandon his ore, take it back, go get a pvp ship and shoot me or call in his corp and get them to shoot me, each of these options led to fun and interesting game play. Because getting them to make that decision, and controlling the situation enough that I didn't get creamed by an unexpected BC fleet was quite a challenge.

I had to talk to them in local, issue them "citations" for illegal jetcan mining, warp off and watch them on Dscan from a nearby belt, sometimes just sit perfectly still while they decided what to do. Each situation called for different tactics but to the same end. I had to convince them to make the wrong decision by making it look like the right one. Despite the fact that I was dealing with highsec miners it still wasn't easy.

I killed everything from Badgers to Ravens, all 1v1 in my Rifter. Sure, I got blown up horribly too on rare occasions but I learned how to fight those ships, alone and in groups. For those who have done it, you know what I mean. For those who haven't, you missed out.

Because that is gone now. The ore hold expansion and CRIMEWATCH II put an end to it. Pretty much deliberately if you read the deb blog. The miners didn't want to make those decisions so they demanded CCP make it for them. So now, I can't manipulate my target. He just takes the ore back with no downside. If he even has a can out since the asteroid belts are now full of Rets and Macks peacefully grazing like cattle. And I get a giant flashing target slapped on my *@@ and get to wait to see who shows up to kick it.

Can flipping as pvp against unwilling targets has been deliberately and permanently killed. So, you can see why I believe so strongly in what James 315 and the New Order are doing. I've seen highsec nerfed up close now. CCP made highsec safe from ME. At least, until I adapted and started bumping. The fight goes on...

315 4 CSM8

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#106 - 2013-02-15 19:27:20 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:

I'm an inch away from demanding mining permits myself after reading threads like this.


Do it.

AFK miners in Amarr space need correction as well.

Fit a prototype 100MN MWD on a cruiser, and start pushing them away from ICE and roids. remember, if the Skiffs are maintaining position on an Orca, bumping the Orca will make the Skiffs follow like ducklings.

Start a 1 week hero to gank the recalcitrant if they can't get the message.

We would be more than willing to honor your sold permits up here.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Travis Uchonela
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-02-15 20:29:20 UTC
This thread is proof of just how badly we need James on the CSM.
Xanthe Isgar
Doomheim
#108 - 2013-02-16 10:06:27 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
You see, what I wanted was to somehow make my target do something he really didn't want to do...No, he had to make a decision between several choices, none of them desirable.

The miners didn't want to make those decisions so they demanded CCP make it for them. So now, I can't manipulate my target.


I highlighted the important parts, because this is really what is at the heart of the issue. For you, and everyone like you. It's all about control and conditions that favor you more than your target. Again, I will point out that over 70% of the map is open to the style of play that you desire. You're free to gank low and null sec miners all day long. The killmails are bigger. The tears are still there. The rewards are greater. So what's the problem? Here's the answer, and there's really no way of getting around it:

Because you're afraid to take the risk. Because low and null sec don't tip the odds heavily in your favor. Every single one of you "agents" prattle on about growing a pair and moving out of hisec. Follow your own advice. Being a hisec miner carries with it about as much risk vs reward as being a hisec ganker.

You guys say that it's a miner's own fault for not fitting tank, yet your manifesto is built on flying disposable ships in hisec where you won't get podded for your actions. Strap on a battleship and try your luck in the asteroid belts of low and nullsec. There are certainly miners out there farming far more ISK within their cushy sovereign homes surrounded by blue neighbors.

If James 315 really wants to have a meaningful impact on the game, then move your operations to where they will do the most good.
Elinarien
Doomheim
#109 - 2013-02-16 10:24:48 UTC
CCP should just bow down to the demands of Goons & JamesXYZ or whatever his name is and just nerf high sec. I would also include in this change all other highsec money making opportunities such as trading and manufacture so that the economic focus is shifted entirely away from highsec.

That way we would see once and for all exactly what the impact would be...

1. If it works and the game flourishes then Goons etc are proven right and what we get is a tightly pvp-oriented game where there is a strong correlation to risk vs reward, high barriers to entry but significant opportunities to makes one's presence felt.

2. The game dies through irreversible and catastrophic loss of revenue.

Only way we will ever find out.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#110 - 2013-02-16 13:25:19 UTC
Xanthe Isgar wrote:
Bing Bangboom wrote:
You see, what I wanted was to somehow make my target do something he really didn't want to do...No, he had to make a decision between several choices, none of them desirable.

The miners didn't want to make those decisions so they demanded CCP make it for them. So now, I can't manipulate my target.


I highlighted the important parts, because this is really what is at the heart of the issue. For you, and everyone like you. It's all about control and conditions that favor you more than your target. Again, I will point out that over 70% of the map is open to the style of play that you desire. You're free to gank low and null sec miners all day long. The killmails are bigger. The tears are still there. The rewards are greater. So what's the problem? Here's the answer, and there's really no way of getting around it:

Because you're afraid to take the risk. Because low and null sec don't tip the odds heavily in your favor. Every single one of you "agents" prattle on about growing a pair and moving out of hisec. Follow your own advice. Being a hisec miner carries with it about as much risk vs reward as being a hisec ganker.

You guys say that it's a miner's own fault for not fitting tank, yet your manifesto is built on flying disposable ships in hisec where you won't get podded for your actions. Strap on a battleship and try your luck in the asteroid belts of low and nullsec. There are certainly miners out there farming far more ISK within their cushy sovereign homes surrounded by blue neighbors.

If James 315 really wants to have a meaningful impact on the game, then move your operations to where they will do the most good.


Agree. They will preach all day long about how miners need to move to low and null, but they won't grow a pair and do it themselves.
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#111 - 2013-02-16 14:28:50 UTC
Xanthe Isgar wrote:


Because you're afraid to take the risk. Because low and null sec don't tip the odds heavily in your favor. Every single one of you "agents" prattle on about growing a pair and moving out of hisec. Follow your own advice. Being a hisec miner carries with it about as much risk vs reward as being a hisec ganker.


You really want to argue about the right and wrong of this. There is no right or wrong in Eve. There is what I can do and what you can stop me from doing.

You asked what I did before the New Order. I told you. I didn't ask for anybody's approval.

The bottom line is this. There was something I liked to do in Eve that was completely within the rules and spirit of the game. It was taken away because some other players couldn't or wouldn't protect themselves. I wasn't stopped by other players like things are supposed to happen in Eve. I was stopped by CCP changing the rules to suit a favored group.

I didn't like that. So I changed to bumping and ganking. The favored group once again is protesting my actions. But this time things are a bit different. James 315 and the New Order have educated the non carebear population about the danger that the highsec miners demands will again be catered to, and Eve nerted even more.

Despite the moaning and insults we receive here and in local, we aren't going to stop. The highsec miners hate us, belittle us, petition us but we keep right on bumping them and ganking them. And we have lots of support. The stockholders list at www.minerbumping.com is long and contains representative players from significant power bases in the game. The knights, who are mainly young alts, have long time experienced Eve pilots behind them. A quick look at the .CODE kill board shows 1105 ship and capsules, worth 121 billion ISK destroyed in February.

We are coming for you.

315 4 CSM8

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#112 - 2013-02-16 14:56:09 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Xanthe Isgar wrote:


Because you're afraid to take the risk. Because low and null sec don't tip the odds heavily in your favor. Every single one of you "agents" prattle on about growing a pair and moving out of hisec. Follow your own advice. Being a hisec miner carries with it about as much risk vs reward as being a hisec ganker.


You really want to argue about the right and wrong of this. There is no right or wrong in Eve. There is what I can do and what you can stop me from doing.

You asked what I did before the New Order. I told you. I didn't ask for anybody's approval.

The bottom line is this. There was something I liked to do in Eve that was completely within the rules and spirit of the game. It was taken away because some other players couldn't or wouldn't protect themselves. I wasn't stopped by other players like things are supposed to happen in Eve. I was stopped by CCP changing the rules to suit a favored group.

I didn't like that. So I changed to bumping and ganking. The favored group once again is protesting my actions. But this time things are a bit different. James 315 and the New Order have educated the non carebear population about the danger that the highsec miners demands will again be catered to, and Eve nerted even more.

Despite the moaning and insults we receive here and in local, we aren't going to stop. The highsec miners hate us, belittle us, petition us but we keep right on bumping them and ganking them. And we have lots of support. The stockholders list at www.minerbumping.com is long and contains representative players from significant power bases in the game. The knights, who are mainly young alts, have long time experienced Eve pilots behind them. A quick look at the .CODE kill board shows 1105 ship and capsules, worth 121 billion ISK destroyed in February.

We are coming for you.

315 4 CSM8

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable


No, they just made it harder for you to canflip. You can still canflip, you just don' want to take the risk. You only want to canflip targets you know you can beat, and thus satisfy your risk-averse style of pvp. Man up and live up to the Order's "Risk vs Reward" sermons.
Lord Ovuld Feish
Doomheim
#113 - 2013-02-16 15:00:05 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Xanthe Isgar wrote:


Because you're afraid to take the risk. Because low and null sec don't tip the odds heavily in your favor. Every single one of you "agents" prattle on about growing a pair and moving out of hisec. Follow your own advice. Being a hisec miner carries with it about as much risk vs reward as being a hisec ganker.


You really want to argue about the right and wrong of this. There is no right or wrong in Eve. There is what I can do and what you can stop me from doing.

You asked what I did before the New Order. I told you. I didn't ask for anybody's approval.

The bottom line is this. There was something I liked to do in Eve that was completely within the rules and spirit of the game. It was taken away because some other players couldn't or wouldn't protect themselves. I wasn't stopped by other players like things are supposed to happen in Eve. I was stopped by CCP changing the rules to suit a favored group.

I didn't like that. So I changed to bumping and ganking. The favored group once again is protesting my actions. But this time things are a bit different. James 315 and the New Order have educated the non carebear population about the danger that the highsec miners demands will again be catered to, and Eve nerted even more.

Despite the moaning and insults we receive here and in local, we aren't going to stop. The highsec miners hate us, belittle us, petition us but we keep right on bumping them and ganking them. And we have lots of support. The stockholders list at www.minerbumping.com is long and contains representative players from significant power bases in the game. The knights, who are mainly young alts, have long time experienced Eve pilots behind them. A quick look at the .CODE kill board shows 1105 ship and capsules, worth 121 billion ISK destroyed in February.

We are coming for you.

315 4 CSM8

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable


No, they just made it harder for you to canflip. You can still canflip, you just don' want to take the risk. You only want to canflip targets you know you can beat, and thus satisfy your risk-averse style of pvp. Man up and live up to the Order's "Risk vs Reward" sermons.

The risk vs reward sermons are also false.

The only reason they are suiciding againsg CONCORD with those Catalysts is because they are doing it with other players' ISK. Rest assured, if they had to work for that ISK, the New Order would not exist.

James is not for risk vs reward. He merely likes drama and shooting ships that do not shoot back. He would rather miners run for the docks whenever someone unknown enters Local.
Xanthe Isgar
Doomheim
#114 - 2013-02-16 16:18:34 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
You really want to argue about the right and wrong of this. There is no right or wrong in Eve. There is what I can do and what you can stop me from doing.

The bottom line is this. There was something I liked to do in Eve that was completely within the rules and spirit of the game. It was taken away because some other players couldn't or wouldn't protect themselves. I wasn't stopped by other players like things are supposed to happen in Eve. I was stopped by CCP changing the rules to suit a favored group.

I didn't like that. So I changed to bumping and ganking. The favored group once again is protesting my actions. But this time things are a bit different. James 315 and the New Order have educated the non carebear population about the danger that the highsec miners demands will again be catered to, and Eve nerted even more.


No. I'm not arguing about what's right and wrong, because I agree that there is none. Not in a game that openly promotes piracy, thieving, and scamming. I have a lot more respect for those players. At least they make no excuses for what they do, and it takes a certain level of skill to pull it off. Hisec suicide ganking is for bottom-feeders.

The real bottom line is this. You're a butthurt wannabe. You continue to talk nonsense about carebears without realizing that you're the worst kind of carebear. Your ganking safety net was pulled out from under you by CCP and instead of stepping up your own game, you've opted to sink even lower on the food chain. You WERE stopped by those other players, whether you choose to accept it or not.

There are players like you in every game. You're the same players who spawn camp, kill newbies, use aimbots, cheat, and exploit. And all for the same reason: you have no skill. It's not "fun" unless you have an advantage over someone else. That's fine, it is what it is. But don't call it something else, because no one is buying it.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#115 - 2013-02-16 16:52:24 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:

No, they just made it harder for you to canflip. You can still canflip, you just don' want to take the risk. You only want to canflip targets you know you can beat, and thus satisfy your risk-averse style of pvp. Man up and live up to the Order's "Risk vs Reward" sermons.


Find them some miners that are still jetcan mining and they'll flip them, since the exhumer changes it's very very rare to find people mining into cans.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#116 - 2013-02-16 17:36:58 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:

No, they just made it harder for you to canflip. You can still canflip, you just don' want to take the risk. You only want to canflip targets you know you can beat, and thus satisfy your risk-averse style of pvp. Man up and live up to the Order's "Risk vs Reward" sermons.


Find them some miners that are still jetcan mining and they'll flip them, since the exhumer changes it's very very rare to find people mining into cans.


You don't have to flip a can, you can also flip a wreck they killed.
Xanthe Isgar
Doomheim
#117 - 2013-02-16 17:44:36 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
No, they just made it harder for you to canflip. You can still canflip, you just don' want to take the risk. You only want to canflip targets you know you can beat, and thus satisfy your risk-averse style of pvp. Man up and live up to the Order's "Risk vs Reward" sermons.


/thread

/New Order
Leonardo Esil
Miner Pinball INC
#118 - 2013-02-16 23:58:25 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:

No, they just made it harder for you to canflip. You can still canflip, you just don' want to take the risk. You only want to canflip targets you know you can beat, and thus satisfy your risk-averse style of pvp. Man up and live up to the Order's "Risk vs Reward" sermons.


Find them some miners that are still jetcan mining and they'll flip them, since the exhumer changes it's very very rare to find people mining into cans.


You don't have to flip a can, you can also flip a wreck they killed.


Yes, because a miner is going to attack a flashy over belt rat loot. The linchpin of can flipping was that the miner had to either flag themselves for battle or lose some ore.
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-02-17 00:17:14 UTC
Xanthe Isgar wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
No, they just made it harder for you to canflip. You can still canflip, you just don' want to take the risk. You only want to canflip targets you know you can beat, and thus satisfy your risk-averse style of pvp. Man up and live up to the Order's "Risk vs Reward" sermons.


/thread

/New Order


/Xanthe Isgar

(she biomassed, look at her corp name)

http://crossingzebras.com/2013/02/17/csm8ripardteg/
Lord Ovuld Feish
Doomheim
#120 - 2013-02-17 01:19:27 UTC
Wescro wrote:
Xanthe Isgar wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
No, they just made it harder for you to canflip. You can still canflip, you just don' want to take the risk. You only want to canflip targets you know you can beat, and thus satisfy your risk-averse style of pvp. Man up and live up to the Order's "Risk vs Reward" sermons.


/thread

/New Order


/Xanthe Isgar

(she biomassed, look at her corp name)

I wish every single avatar with those shades did the same...ugh.