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Mining Barge SP Reimbursement

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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#461 - 2013-02-14 01:00:04 UTC
Glathull wrote:
I'm curious as to what solutions you would find acceptable, Kathern and rodyas.

What would you do to fix the problem. It's apparently easy, and CCP is just too lazy to do it.

So what is it they should do?


Well I mostly see the BC balance as a CCP attempt to meta game them really. They studied what it took to unlock certain ships and saw where places were too hard for them to want to deal with it. So they just meta gamed them so they would make sense. They did do work, and were clever. So its not entirely lazy what they are doing. But I was hoping for an improvement to the game form this. Seems CCP just wants us to level ships a certain way, and that is all we get to choose from really.

I know most people don't take balance or ship balance as seriously as I do, So it will be hard for me to really express why I am annoyed by it.

Easiest way I can though is the mining balance during the summer. In a way you could argue all CCP did was meta game the mining ships. But I always felt mining really needed logistics to shine. They did end up giving us logistics withe new ore bay, so I was happy with the changes, plus competing in a T1 ship is fun as hell. I did think the hulk was below average, but I thought they could do more, plus players did want it to be harder to use and to have one. So it kind of worked out well really.

With the BC change and CCP's new lvling philosophy especially towards new or players like me. It is a shaft, and on top of that shaft, there really isn't to much of a game improvement really.

Unless you count raising the games collective IQ apparently from reading the balancing comments as a game improvement.



Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#462 - 2013-02-14 01:04:38 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
rodyas wrote:

Well you make a lot of good points, the first comment that came to me from reading this was, that I take ship balance pretty seriously. Seems you guys at CCP like to do ship balancing, but you guys don't want to deal with all the variables really. Its kind of annoying to see people just start whacking at ships without really trying to deal with all the problems or issues.

It really seemed to boil down to CCP mission statement really. CCP only invests or works at things that don't consume too much resources and only does things, that keep their company afloat. That is the only reason you guys are giving back SP to the BC and destroyer changes. This is not a a full fair change or a good smart change. You guys just saw what would be good for the company or changes you can do, that won't take too much up or be much of an effort.

It is sad people trained the orca for logistics only, and it couldn't be made more fair sooner, as well its too sad that a SP reimbursement takes too much, and the CCP company can't afford do that. All I see happening is CCP taking the easy route and not caring for anyone, since doing that would hurt the bottom line. No wonder why you guys don't tell anyone to HTFU anymore.

After reading your post I can only think that there must be a great deal of truth to the idea that certain people only read what they want to read. Especially when faced with well reasoned arguments which state nothing in regard to effort, yet still determine that a decision was made purely based upon ease or cost.

Considering we are already doing a more complex move than a simple reimbursement with the actual split and cloning of levels from the BC and dessy skills to the Racial BC/dessy skills, it would be trivial to do the rest if they saw fit from a game balance perspective. But it doesn't to the point where they feel it a proper course of action. This is why they didn't do it. Not cost or effort, but the conscious decision that it shouldn't be done.


I imagine you already have BC trained to lvl 5 or are doing so right now, as well as the smaller cruiser lvls and stuff.

Good for you. You now know what what meta gaming feels like. And as far as you stating sayings are probably true. I have a counter argument, Since apparently you can teach old dogs new tricks. Well done CCP , well done. Always doing the impossible.

You did mention the only thing I probably take serious with this change and its how the BC skill was a generic skill and lacked flavor or spice to it. With CCP giving it racial skills, I suppose it will be more name brand now and away from that lame and luke warm taste we are so accustomed to.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#463 - 2013-02-14 01:31:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
rodyas wrote:

I imagine you already have BC trained to lvl 5 or are doing so right now, as well as the smaller cruiser lvls and stuff.

Good for you. You now know what what meta gaming feels like. And as far as you stating sayings are probably true. I have a counter argument, Since apparently you can teach old dogs new tricks. Well done CCP , well done. Always doing the impossible.

You did mention the only thing I probably take serious with this change and its how the BC skill was a generic skill and lacked flavor or spice to it. With CCP giving it racial skills, I suppose it will be more name brand now and away from that lame and luke warm taste we are so accustomed to.

I'm sorry, I am genuinely unable to interpret your meaning in this post. Though, I will try to address one thing I think I did understand: The BC and dessy skill changes were, as I understood them, made to eliminate out of class specialization training, eliminate cases where a single skill gave bonuses across 12 BC's including all 4 races and provide consistency within the skill tree. I'm not sure where adding "spice" came from.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#464 - 2013-02-14 01:51:32 UTC
So when I trained BC and all the others skills years ago, I meta gamed them?

I honestly thought I'd read it all, but those posts really topped the thread off quite nicely. I would like a pint of whatever he's drinking though.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#465 - 2013-02-14 02:12:05 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So when I trained BC and all the others skills years ago, I meta gamed them?

I honestly thought I'd read it all, but those posts really topped the thread off quite nicely. I would like a pint of whatever he's drinking though.


Lvling the skills then might not have been so much meta gaming really. Just the rush to now. Seems to mimic it.

Though with how easy it is to access so many of the commonly used ships in EVE the BC skill was, perhaps there could have been some meta gaming involved.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#466 - 2013-02-14 02:17:32 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
rodyas wrote:

I imagine you already have BC trained to lvl 5 or are doing so right now, as well as the smaller cruiser lvls and stuff.

Good for you. You now know what what meta gaming feels like. And as far as you stating sayings are probably true. I have a counter argument, Since apparently you can teach old dogs new tricks. Well done CCP , well done. Always doing the impossible.

You did mention the only thing I probably take serious with this change and its how the BC skill was a generic skill and lacked flavor or spice to it. With CCP giving it racial skills, I suppose it will be more name brand now and away from that lame and luke warm taste we are so accustomed to.

I'm sorry, I am genuinely unable to interpret your meaning in this post. Though, I will try to address one thing I think I did understand: The BC and dessy skill changes were, as I understood them, made to eliminate out of class specialization training, eliminate cases where a single skill gave bonuses across 12 BC's including all 4 races and provide consistency within the skill tree. I'm not sure where adding "spice" came from.


I meant the skill book itself, the name of it. As in the BC and destroyer skill or skill book has a racial tint to it now or will have one. Compared to one skill to rule them all type thing. Its not a very spicey one really, why I added name brand taste to it. But perhaps still better then a generic skill to learn.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#467 - 2013-02-14 02:44:26 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm sorry, I am genuinely unable to interpret your meaning in this post. Though, I will try to address one thing I think I did understand: The BC and dessy skill changes were, as I understood them, made to eliminate out of class specialization training, eliminate cases where a single skill gave bonuses across 12 BC's including all 4 races and provide consistency within the skill tree. I'm not sure where adding "spice" came from.


I meant the skill book itself, the name of it. As in the BC and destroyer skill or skill book has a racial tint to it now or will have one. Compared to one skill to rule them all type thing. Its not a very spicey one really, why I added name brand taste to it. But perhaps still better then a generic skill to learn.

There were reasons given for the split and the names are no more or less spiced than the other already racial ship skills, but that doesn't really matter as flavor wasn't a factor. I'm generally unsure where that came from. I didn't say it. I simply said they were putting effort into the skill allocations and prerequisites under the new system so laziness wasn't a good way to characterize the changes.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#468 - 2013-02-14 02:51:45 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm sorry, I am genuinely unable to interpret your meaning in this post. Though, I will try to address one thing I think I did understand: The BC and dessy skill changes were, as I understood them, made to eliminate out of class specialization training, eliminate cases where a single skill gave bonuses across 12 BC's including all 4 races and provide consistency within the skill tree. I'm not sure where adding "spice" came from.


I meant the skill book itself, the name of it. As in the BC and destroyer skill or skill book has a racial tint to it now or will have one. Compared to one skill to rule them all type thing. Its not a very spicey one really, why I added name brand taste to it. But perhaps still better then a generic skill to learn.

There were reasons given for the split and the names are no more or less spiced than the other already racial ship skills, but that doesn't really matter as flavor wasn't a factor. I'm generally unsure where that came from. I didn't say it. I simply said they were putting effort into the skill allocations and prerequisites under the new system so laziness wasn't a good way to characterize the changes.


In my original post I believe, I said they ignored issues or other variables. You are correct of the variables listed they did do well. But is that all the variables that deal with ships, or ships in the big picture, or how CCP stated their vision towards ships, players and SP and whether I agree with their vision. I only meant lazy in the big picture kind of way. Yes it is hard work to to lift a rock up. But when you want a home and all they do is pick one rock up. You kind of view them as lazy.

I also don't know where flavor came from either, but its in all our food, or things have it somehow.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#469 - 2013-02-14 03:06:56 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
trained mining boosting ship.
has no desire to mine.

i see the problem here, you're a bit of an idiot.

just so we're doubly clear, ccp should not refund your sp because you decided to use a ship for something other than it's intended purpose.


Don't think a reimbursement is going to happen.

But Orcas have a LOT of uses beyond mining, jackass.


sure they do, but why should ccp refund SP just because you decided to use an orca for a use other than the use for which it was created?


aside from mining drones, the orca isnt a mining ship anyway, and mining barge is not a requirement to even use a mining drone.

While im not taking a side on the matter, trying to claim that an orca is a mining barge and is used as a mining ship specifically, as opposed to a mining/fleet support ship/junk mover isnt especially accurate
Strike Severasse
#470 - 2013-02-14 03:17:20 UTC
Sadly, those that spent the time are getting punished without a compensation system for CCP's misjudgment 'adjusting' in favor of new players. I dont want compensation... i want content!!!!!

Its about the NEW CONTENT, !! not the RE-RUNS.

I'm for helping new players but Ocras? really!!

So many things to invest time on and CCP is playing ship adjustments.....???

Alas the days of expansions are gone, its about the ledge, the books, the banks accounts... err the 1%.. is it CPP?

CCP -> Get back to work and earn the damn monthly's again!
- Do something big, not tweaks.. do something


Remember worm holes, remember those expansions? I wonder again, i really do.

.
Sidrat Flush
School of Applied Knowledge
#471 - 2013-02-14 03:46:06 UTC
Strike Severasse wrote:
Sadly, those that spent the time are getting punished without a compensation system for CCP's misjudgment 'adjusting' in favor of new players. I dont want compensation... i want content!!!!!

Its about the NEW CONTENT, !! not the RE-RUNS.

I'm for helping new players but Ocras? really!!

So many things to invest time on and CCP is playing ship adjustments.....???

Alas the days of expansions are gone, its about the ledge, the books, the banks accounts... err the 1%.. is it CPP?

CCP -> Get back to work and earn the damn monthly's again!
- Do something big, not tweaks.. do something


Remember worm holes, remember those expansions? I wonder again, i really do.


So you want mire new content in a broken game?

Patience is a virtue and getting ships then mods balanced first is s very long overdue step.

New content should be created when the gap or opportunity for it exists, not just add new shiny for the sake of it.

Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.