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CCP: Fix Asteroids... UPDATE Fixed Ret 1.1 !!!

Author
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-02-13 16:17:50 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
I have a memory of a video... fan fest possibly of asteroids flying about, breaking up n bouncing off a sansha carrier... something to do with this maybe?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXYeNiXHWmc

Truly epic.

Tessellation will fix all your problems.


Tessellation!!! thats the ticket!

No Worries

Flag Bravo
#22 - 2013-02-13 18:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Flag Bravo
Not to mention the space krap that you get stuck on. What make's the mind boggle is why have mission rats flying around space krap with hit boxes twice the size of the object in question. How many more years before this get's fixed?
Maybe never, just like the eye-bleed fog.
Whitehound
#23 - 2013-02-13 18:49:56 UTC
Halete wrote:
Whitehound wrote:

It requires a lot more computations to detect a collision of two complex objects than to taking only their estimated radii.


Okay...

Whitehound wrote:

The improved accuracy does not add very much to the game. It might even be possible to get two ships entangled into one another. Imagine the tail of a Scorpion getting hooked in-between the panels of a Tempest...


Wait, did you just shoot down your own premise?

It is not a premise. It is an explanation for why the bounding boxes are as simple as they are.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#24 - 2013-02-13 19:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
There are two issues here: Shape and size. Complex objects have a shape that is not well represented by a collision sphere. You either need to use multiple spheres, accept one big one that causes annoying collisions, or accept one smaller one that allows for intersections. (The Domi use to stick out of its collision sphere, allowing small ships to get "inside" its tail.)

But the other issue is size. Most roids are roundish and would fit well into spheres. But the collision sphere they are given is far far bigger than it needs to be to insure you do not see a ship intersecting with it.

The issue the OP brings up is size, some collision spheres are far bigger than they need to be.

Maybe a bug report?

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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#25 - 2013-02-14 00:33:35 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Asteroids are horrible. Yesterday I warped into an asteroid field, got stuck on the warp-in spot at 30Km, and had to spend 10 minutes to pry the ship loose trying various angles. In lowsec. Urgh.


10 minutes? lrn2eve


Yeah that might be a little exaggerated, but seriously... if you end up smack in between a bunch of them you are pretty much at the grace of the physics engine for a while. Dying like that just plain sucks. The solution would perhaps lie in looking at how they spawn. When each asteroid or structure had enough room around it, had a smaller hitbox, or it would lie a little lower on the 'plane'... I dunno, I just think it's stupid you can pretty much end up smack inside what's supposed to be a solid object. But since players can have a gazillion approach vectors it's a hard problem to solve. I solve it by belt-ratting in short / medium ranges, it's just a shame weapon X keeps me safer then weapon Y because of jump-in range.
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#26 - 2013-02-14 00:34:06 UTC
YES, FOR THE LOVE OF XENU.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-02-14 05:00:37 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Asteroids are horrible. Yesterday I warped into an asteroid field, got stuck on the warp-in spot at 30Km, and had to spend 10 minutes to pry the ship loose trying various angles. In lowsec. Urgh.


Try it in a carrier. There's one Haven filled with asteroids and usually your carrier gets stuck right in the middle. Not fun when your local suddenly spikes with 15 neuts. Your only option then is to jump to a cyno. Hopefully your alliance had a beacon or you had an alt with a cyno ready...

Not that I rat in carriers. People who rat in carriers are horrible bad people.


This is why you dont warp to at anoms with collidibles ;)
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#28 - 2013-02-14 06:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Musashi Date wrote:
Methinks CCP uses collision spheres, not boxes. Wrapping the collision code to mesh with any object will be tough, splitting the spheres into smaller ones will increase objects in space..


Actually, you don't want them to mesh with the object, and that is rather simple to do really. All you need to do there is use the object mesh as the bounding sphere. Unfortunately, that only works well if you actually have collisions, else the ship will unrealistically pass into the object before bouncing back out, or maybe it'll hang and snag on the edge of it, not knowing which direction to go.

Sphere is obvious, but it will be centered on the objects pivot point center, which means that if it happens to be off center to allow for interesting movement, then one side will extend well beyond the edge in order to keep the other within. Thus, unusual asteroid collision spheres.

I'm fairly certain nobody actually uses cubes; boxes being a reference to a container.

I don't really know any of the above; it is all speculation, assumption, and only partially based in potential fact. I don't work in game development, so that is all I can really do. I did some 3D art once though.

Code isn't wrapped either, afaik; there can't possibly be any such thing in reality. What really happens is that code responds when something happens, such as a player model intersection a collision model.

The reason for spheres is simple. If you try to make collision objects to fit every possible shape and envelop them equally, you have to use each base model and inject hundreds of new models into the game that serve that purpose. A Sphere can be expanded as needed to envelop any model, and it can be told to do so by code based on the object it is intended to envelope. It is easy to define and manipulable. It requires one model.

Again, theoretical, but partially base on fact. I've read enough development discussion to gather at least something over the years.

PhysX and Tesselation could potentially change this, allowing collision 'boxes' to be generated from the models themselves, without any need for additional models or any great amount of code. The issue here, is that this would normally be generated client side, which does absolutely nothing in the game. Your Collision box likely wouldn't work.

Now, if you made a program that did this server side, and utilized GPU technology there to generate this, then it might work. We don't have anything like that though, so far as I know.

Instead, we have awkward bubbles that envelope objects and prevent us from intersecting with them, while having no visible structure themselves and no requirement for a physics model aside from where they define a parameter of another object, easily explained by autopilot and collision avoidance of the spacecraft.

edit: I might also add that spheres are ideal, as they have no faces that could reflect the surface of another of their faces, thus any push away from the collision sphere will be away from the collision sphere rather than into it. Unfortunately, this is where you get stuck between two or three of them as well.

Also, Stations have collision boxes somewhat like mentioned above, which is why you can get stuck on them. I imagine our ships do to, to some extent. Much less capable of being stuck in though. This might also explain why carriers are so small, despite that we'd like to see them realistically scaled.

tl;dr: someone needs to calibrate your ship sensors, they seem to be detecting a gravitational mass where there is none. P
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#29 - 2013-02-14 07:11:50 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The issue the OP brings up is size, some collision spheres are far bigger than they need to be.


The collision spheres are roughly the right size for what the asteroids used to be. Remember when Veldspar used to be huge grey space potatoes? Now it's that lumpy thing that looks like a cosmic sheep or rabbit took a dump. These new asteroids are much smaller than their predecessors (about 50-60% of the original size). It would seem to me that when the asteroids were reworked back in whichever expansion it was (Chribba would know), someone forgot to adjust the collision box.

It's probably a really minor technical change that simply got forgotten about.

And it's really nice that the big thing we have to complain about is collision boxes, rather than ships flying backwards, hulls spontaneously exploding, computers that can no longer boot (dot ini), or 1400mm artillery that somehow managed to get loaded with covetors for ammo and can no longer be unfit, reloaded or reprocessed.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#30 - 2013-02-14 07:41:58 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Try it in a carrier. There's one Haven filled with asteroids and usually your carrier gets stuck right in the middle. Not fun when your local suddenly spikes with 15 neuts. Your only option then is to jump to a cyno. Hopefully your alliance had a beacon or you had an alt with a cyno ready...

Not that I rat in carriers. People who rat in carriers are horrible bad people.



One of the many reasons why Sentry Carriers > Fighter carriers (esp now that we have DDAs). Warp to 70 will keep you clear of most all obstacles (and give you more time to escape that inty landing at 0.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-02-14 08:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Fix....Asteroids?

Serious reply: It's not just asteroids. Collision boxes on everything are messed up.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-02-15 23:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
CCP tried to fix an asteroid earlier today (15 February) --- the results were caught on cams all over Russia.

Or it was a demo of a new capital ship Orbital Strike for the summer release -- gotta love kinetic bombardment.

Very cool. Cool

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-02-15 23:31:39 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
I am currently WAY away from the asteroid... it actually shows 5km away on my screen but I am still bouncing off of it...

Asteroid collision boxes need reworked!


Infiltrated outposts, the roid directly between me and the warp gate.. has a HUGE box that extends far from it's model.


still better than getting stuck inside it aned wait for a miner to free you...shiver...

If you are in highsec, you only have to wait for about ten min after downtime and you're cut free.Smile

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#34 - 2013-02-19 16:36:35 UTC
CCP Fixed the Asteroid in Infiltrated outposts! =)

Now with 100% less Troll.

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