These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

So CCP wants to change how clone cost works what next?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2013-02-12 14:56:48 UTC
luZk wrote:


Ahh I see.

But would'nt that mean CCP would have to offer them a special snowflake treatment now that their clones are as expensive as ours?


I expect it to arrive any day now. CCP are after all working on the ~medical clone issue~
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#142 - 2013-02-12 15:02:24 UTC
Zilero wrote:
luZk wrote:


Ahh I see.

But would'nt that mean CCP would have to offer them a special snowflake treatment now that their clones are as expensive as ours?


I expect it to arrive any day now. CCP are after all working on the ~medical clone issue~



Yes indeed it has been a issue for years and years.
Thank god we have a CSM as The Mittani to make these changes happen. He's is a true servant of the game and the community and in no way only lobbying his own interests.

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2013-02-12 15:05:51 UTC
luZk wrote:
Zilero wrote:
luZk wrote:


Ahh I see.

But would'nt that mean CCP would have to offer them a special snowflake treatment now that their clones are as expensive as ours?


I expect it to arrive any day now. CCP are after all working on the ~medical clone issue~



Yes indeed it has been a issue for years and years.
Thank god we have a CSM as The Mittani to make these changes happen. He's is a true servant of the game and the community and in no way only lobbying his own interests.


Thank god he is not currently a CSM you mean?

Then again, a large majority (if not all) CSMs are part of the 0.0 ~blue friends~.... so the difference is probably not that big.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2013-02-12 15:08:14 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
fukier wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dev says, "We're not happy with clone COSTS" and nothing to say beyond that.

Where did they say they aren't happy with how clones work?

How do any of your suggestions have anything to do with how clones "work"? It's looks like a suggestion on how clones would be distributed, but not a thing about how they "work".

Why would they remove an ISK sink like clones?

Can you use a fork?



jesus you guys are like sharks jumping on the first sent of blood in the water...

i have updated the op to better reflect what i meant to say...

"You guys"? Did we all sit around and brainstorm this response or something?


Considering the way that clone costs are calculated, I'm making an assumption that CCP has a particular line of reasoning.
As if they:

Assume that as an older player you'll have access to easier ISK generation, and therefore need higher sinks.

Assumed that we would self regulate, by not training a single character to excessive SP levels to keep clone replacement affordable.

And then there's the really geeky ****, like:
Lore.

Clones are fine the way they are, what it eventually ends up costing you isn't.
How clones are distributed doesn't really have anything to do with how much you can potentially lose when you replace a clone. It would be easier for CCP to control the cost of clones on their own; not have it governed by the market, which is run by the players.

Clones are supposed to be a penalty for getting podded, not discourage PvP. The curve is broken.

You're hardly an original thinker when it comes to this topic.


so your original idea for clones is to reduce cost?

wow that must have taken allot of grey matter to come up with there duder.

if you have ever lived in souther stain you would understand why distribution is a problem. (though this could be solved by revamping the clone vat bay)
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#145 - 2013-02-12 15:13:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Zilero wrote:

Now Goons are the ones with the expensive clones.... Big smile

Ahh that makes sense, they prolly just finished running the numbers on that little dust up in Asakai the other day.

Test will destroy the CFC in a battle of attrition just on clone costs. Hordes of lowskill pilots from Test just smashing into the ubber clones on the Goon side. Interesting.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-02-12 15:13:07 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Not a massive change for overall game, but a huge change for higher SP players now able to have fun flying a cheapo throw away T1 frig for fun since it doesn't use any more SP to fly it than a lower SP character.


Use an alt if you want cheap throw away combat. Or jump clone to empire space to fight. You are asking for a huge increase in the versatility and power of your character and offering nothing to mitigate that effect or to replace the sink.



You might be defending your business of toons selling I don't know and actually don't care.

This clones mechanic is bad, Marlona Sky explained it quite well even if I disagree with some points from his explanation.
You clearly disagree with anyone for illogical reasons and perpetuate strawman arguments.

The point is, this is known by CCP and for us who do care about, have the feeling that finally the stupidity (in our opinion) of penalizing characters for training skills and force them to train alts, is about to change.

I see no further reason to keep hammering strawman arguments like "train an alt" or "buy an alt" or "buy plex", it does not support in any shape or form your ideal of Eve.
Gaming must be a fun experience even when the loss is "total", many changes including the increasing number of higher SP characters playing the game will have an impact on this positive change so that login to Eve does not enforce the feeling of having a second job or require microtransactions (I already pay my sub with real money and it's clearly enough)

Now I can understand some important change like this doesn't hit someone loosing occasionally a pod here and there, therefore can't understand the impact for "the others" who do loose a lot of pods on a month, week or even daily basis.

The point of this discussion is not about having the choice to train an alt but to to have fun with acceptable risk/loss the character you spend so many years dedicating money to upgrade it.

Not everything about Eve has to be negative for the silly sake of it.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#147 - 2013-02-12 15:15:51 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Zilero wrote:

Now Goons are the ones with the expensive clones.... Big smile

Ahh that makes sense, they prolly just finished running the numbers on that little dust up in Asakai the other day.

I bet the numbers there reveal that Test will destroy the CFC in a battle of attrition just on clone costs. Hordes of lowskill pilots from Test just smashing into the ubber clones on the Goon side. Interesting.



Once again you're jumping on someone comment and state silly things. Roll

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#148 - 2013-02-12 15:17:51 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Gaming must be a fun experience even when the loss is "total", many changes including the increasing number of higher SP characters playing the game will have an impact on this positive change so that login to Eve does not enforce the feeling of having a second job or require microtransactions (I already pay my sub with real money and it's clearly enough)



So now "Eve is Dying! We need to make clones cheaper." Go on tell me more.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#149 - 2013-02-12 15:23:38 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Gaming must be a fun experience even when the loss is "total", many changes including the increasing number of higher SP characters playing the game will have an impact on this positive change so that login to Eve does not enforce the feeling of having a second job or require microtransactions (I already pay my sub with real money and it's clearly enough)



So now "Eve is Dying! We need to make clones cheaper." Go on tell me more.



Reading you it's already a funny experience I don't need to make jokes about, you're doing it yourself at each of your posts.

But was entertaining Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#150 - 2013-02-12 15:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Zilero wrote:

Now Goons are the ones with the expensive clones.... Big smile

Ahh that makes sense, they prolly just finished running the numbers on that little dust up in Asakai the other day.

I bet the numbers there reveal that Test will destroy the CFC in a battle of attrition just on clone costs. Hordes of lowskill pilots from Test just smashing into the ubber clones on the Goon side. Interesting.



Once again you're jumping on someone comment and state silly things. Roll



Its not silly, two of the biggest coalitions in Eve were on the brink of outright war a few weeks ago. Test backed down and they blew off some steam in Asakai. But Montolio was forced to publicly admit the superior position of Mittens, even though by my estimation HBC had the upper hand.

That leaves Goons v Test and the clone expense for Goons will be a lot more than the cost for HBC. Maybe enough for Test to win the fight, and certainly enough to get Mittens to beg for a reduction in clone prices.

Haven't you been wondering where all the goon damage control guys are?
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#151 - 2013-02-12 15:27:04 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Its not a bad game design feature. It is a very important sink and it is a character limitation that rewards good character planning. Every voice to the contrary thus far has just been some variation of "make Eve easier."


it doesn't make it easier, it just abolishes the convoluted workaround of having two or three characters to do the job of one which either requires more time or more money for additional accounts.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2013-02-12 16:03:51 UTC
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Its not a bad game design feature. It is a very important sink and it is a character limitation that rewards good character planning. Every voice to the contrary thus far has just been some variation of "make Eve easier."


it doesn't make it easier, it just abolishes the convoluted workaround of having two or three characters to do the job of one which either requires more time or more money for additional accounts.


this guy gets it!
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#153 - 2013-02-12 18:17:06 UTC
fukier wrote:
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Its not a bad game design feature. It is a very important sink and it is a character limitation that rewards good character planning. Every voice to the contrary thus far has just been some variation of "make Eve easier."


it doesn't make it easier, it just abolishes the convoluted workaround of having two or three characters to do the job of one which either requires more time or more money for additional accounts.


this guy gets it!

Who? me or Ankles?!
fukier
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2013-02-13 15:19:09 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
fukier wrote:
Ankles McGlashan wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Its not a bad game design feature. It is a very important sink and it is a character limitation that rewards good character planning. Every voice to the contrary thus far has just been some variation of "make Eve easier."


it doesn't make it easier, it just abolishes the convoluted workaround of having two or three characters to do the job of one which either requires more time or more money for additional accounts.


this guy gets it!

Who? me or Ankles?!


ankles... i dont like paying so much isk for loosing a frig
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#155 - 2013-02-13 15:35:29 UTC
fukier wrote:

ankles... i dont like paying so much isk for loosing a frig


Fair enough. I do like a lot of your ideas about making clones transportable, and making them a player made item. And I also think that we will see some kind of cost cut for high end clones.

I personally don't agree with it, but I'm not going to hold my breath and jump up and down if they bring those costs down.We shall see.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#156 - 2013-02-13 15:44:28 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Its not a bad game design feature. It is a very important sink and it is a character limitation that rewards good character planning. Every voice to the contrary thus far has just been some variation of "make Eve easier."
So you're saying I'm being penalized, because I didn't plan my character training correctly?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#157 - 2013-02-13 15:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Mag's wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Its not a bad game design feature. It is a very important sink and it is a character limitation that rewards good character planning. Every voice to the contrary thus far has just been some variation of "make Eve easier."
So you're saying I'm being penalized, because I didn't plan my character training correctly?


I'm saying that an account with all its SP's in one character has advantages and disadvantages. An expensive clone being a huge disadvantage that people want to go away. While keeping all of the advantages. It is an unfair adjustment that will unbalance the current power structure.

The thing is there are some players who planned on people having that disadvantage and built to take advantage of it. The case of Test v. Goons being the big one.

Most people look at this and see more pewpew, there are however very specific winners and some losers with a change of this magnitude. That is probably why CCP was so vague about "being unhappy with clone pricing." It needs some work, but its a big issue with far reaching consequences balance wise.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#158 - 2013-02-13 16:17:14 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Its not a bad game design feature. It is a very important sink and it is a character limitation that rewards good character planning. Every voice to the contrary thus far has just been some variation of "make Eve easier."
So you're saying I'm being penalized, because I didn't plan my character training correctly?


I'm saying that an account with all its SP's in one character has advantages and disadvantages. An expensive clone being a huge disadvantage that people want to go away. While keeping all of the advantages. It is an unfair adjustment that will unbalance the current power structure.

The thing is there are some players who planned on people having that disadvantage and built to take advantage of it. The case of Test v. Goons being the big one.

Most people look at this and see more pewpew, there are however very specific winners and some losers with a change of this magnitude. That is probably why CCP was so vague about "being unhappy with clone pricing." It needs some work, but its a big issue with far reaching consequences balance wise.
The only advantage is being able to use different ships. When you fly a frig, there are only so many skills you use. It's the same for everyone. This is what makes Eve's skill system so great.

People should not be punished for having one account or training only one character. As much as I agree with many things you say bud, that's simply illogical. You're basically saying sure you can fly anything you want, but to keep clone costs down, you must train multiple character and have multiple accounts.

The cost of replacing many of my clones, dwarfs the medical cost. This isn't simply about ISK, it's about balance and changing a mechanic that penalizes longevity. It's about allowing people to choose.

Test v goons is irrelevant to me and this tbh.
But CCP haven't been vague. Page 48 of the last CSM meeting will tell you exactly what they think of this and even the SP loss.

I'm all for sinks and would like more to be introduced. But this sink needs a rework.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kamden Line
Sovereign Citizen and other Tax Evasion Schemes
#159 - 2013-02-13 17:10:19 UTC
Remove Clone Costs = higher SP pilots get to run around in frigates without worrying about their absurdly expensive clones. More PVP is what has been agitated for - if we get rid of high clone costs, then one of the aspects that deter PVP is removed.
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#160 - 2013-02-13 17:18:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lower the cost so my clone is not more expensive than my ship would be nice.


Clone prices should be more even. Might make people think twice before clubing baby seals...errr i mean ganking miners or freighters in hi-sec.

Clone cost as much as your ship? Hell yea your actions now have more consequences...welcome to the sandbox.