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EVE universe too large
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Col Arran
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-02-12 06:39:39 UTC
With the other topic that just recently popped up on how EVE is too small, EVE Universe too small , I'm making a counter thread that proposes the notion that the universe is too large.

Firstly I'm sure at least most of us are aware of the vastness of Low and Null Security space. I'm not going to get into Unknown space at this time as that is an entire discussion in and of itself. Anyway back to nullsec, its too large for the number of players that live in it. Right now you can fly through many many systems and not find anyone in them. Personally I think nullsec should be, well more dense with players.

The problem in my mind is that there isn't enough incentive to fight over space in nullsec right now. However if nullsec was cut to half its size I'm sure there would be much more warring going on over territory. Its just too easy for the separate blocs to just avoid each other. I don't really know but I think the EVE universe should be filled with more war. Granted territory war is stale right now because of how much of an unnecessary headache it is but again that's a discussion for another time.

Anyway in closing EVE, particularly nullsec, is too large; anyone have any thoughts?
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#2 - 2013-02-12 06:41:50 UTC
If we get rid of high-sec, EVE will be smaller. I think this satisfies your desire for a smaller EVE.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-02-12 06:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Col Arran
Karl Hobb wrote:
If we get rid of high-sec, EVE will be smaller. I think this satisfies your desire for a smaller EVE.


Well I'm glad someone mentioned it I didn't really want to just start out a thread in GD with the time old get rid of high-sec but now as the subject has been broached.....yes, get rid of high-sec. Take out low-sec too just remove the factions and concord from the game put all new players in a single corp with a ceasefire treaty for one month with all players then after that time they either stay in the corp but are no longer under the treaty, or they join with one of the player corps who owns space.

But this is going on a tangent that is a whole thread in and of itself.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#4 - 2013-02-12 06:45:28 UTC
Col Arran wrote:
Well I'm glad someone mentioned it I didn't really want to just start out a thread in GD with the time old get rid of high-sec but now as the subject has been broached.....yes, get rid of high-sec.

Bonus: High-sec wouldn't need to be nerfed if we removed it.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Heathyy
Absolute Order IX
Wrecking Machine.
#5 - 2013-02-12 06:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Heathyy
I'm torn on this, I wouldn't call myself a seasoned vet, but i have seen enough to know that i can say that fights don't happen over space, noone is ever happy with the space they take and ppl fight, because they want to fight and because its the only thing there is to do once you've carved yourself a foothold.

if an alliance is serious about pvp they will even forego the space they've taken to move to a place where they can get good fights.. again i say its not about the space its just about being in range of ppl to fight. if null sec was smaller, it would be even harder for new alliances to take the step from highsec to low or null.

then again if your alliance wants good space to recoup losses, you don't want to be butting heads with your enemies all the time, if all your space is in jump range of your enemy you don't get any peace and so your always fighting.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-02-12 06:56:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Col Arran
Heathyy wrote:
I'm torn on this, I wouldn't call myself a seasoned vet, but i have seen enough to know that i can say that fights don't happen over space, noone is ever happy with the space they take and ppl fight, because they want to fight and because its the only thing there is to do once you've carved yourself a foothold.

if an alliance is serious about pvp they will even forego the space they've taken to move to a place where they can get good fights.. again i say its not about the space its just about being in range of ppl to fight. if null sec was smaller, it would be even harder for new alliances to take take the step from highsec to low or null.

then again if your alliance wants good space to recoup losses, you don't want to be butting heads with your enemies all the time, if all your space is in jump range of your enemy you don't get any peace and so your always fighting.


You are correct about space, right now PL is taking sov in the North East because they are bored. There is really no benefit to the space, its not laden with Tech its not really in a strategic area its just there and people are fighting over it because they are bored.

I guess this could lead into a discussion on how CCP could make all space more coveted and valuable.

As for always fighting well I want you to take a look at Africa and the Muslim/Israeli conflicts that have been going on since...well as long as I know. The world is harsh the EVE universe is hyped up to be harsher, its not. The EVE universe is relatively stable compared to what it could be. Personally I like the idea of constant war with your sworn enemies, like you said you want space to recoup your losses so it makes what little you have that more valuable. Right now my alliance was just given space because the previous owners didn't want it, hell we got a couple stations in the deal too cause it wasn't worth it. That's a problem a big one and it should be fixed ASAP.

As for new alliances well I go back to my previous point, my alliance is 17 days old (just started using it, just had it up to reserve the name) and we were just given a chain of 5 systems because the previous owners didn't want to pay the sov bills on it. There is so much unclaimed space out there still and there are alliances who want to just get rid of their space but don't want it falling into enemy hands. All a new alliance needs to do is find out who these people are, make contact get a treaty set up and they are pretty much set. Its not really hard for new alliances to make their way, people just don't want to do the small amount of work that is required.
Heathyy
Absolute Order IX
Wrecking Machine.
#7 - 2013-02-12 07:09:03 UTC
The big problem is no alliance wants its members to become complacent, so leaders do whatever they can to make sure there is a stream of fights to be had.

I liked the ideas of making space more personal, i don't know exactly what they could do, but i think it would make more sense if space was defended because it meant something to the ppl using it, not just some throwaway that can be replaced in a week or 2 if lost.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2013-02-12 07:16:19 UTC
No

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#9 - 2013-02-12 08:10:22 UTC
Col Arran wrote:
Anyway in closing EVE, particularly nullsec, is too large; anyone have any thoughts?
If you make it physically smaller the people there will get crushed together and some will leave, making it even less populated.

What needs to be done is to make it harder to hold onto large swaths of space, so that gaps appear which new groups can move in to fill.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-02-12 08:14:34 UTC
Col Arran wrote:
With the other topic that just recently popped up on how EVE is too small, EVE Universe too small , I'm making a counter thread that proposes the notion that the universe is too large.

Firstly I'm sure at least most of us are aware of the vastness of Low and Null Security space. I'm not going to get into Unknown space at this time as that is an entire discussion in and of itself. Anyway back to nullsec, its too large for the number of players that live in it. Right now you can fly through many many systems and not find anyone in them. Personally I think nullsec should be, well more dense with players.

The problem in my mind is that there isn't enough incentive to fight over space in nullsec right now. However if nullsec was cut to half its size I'm sure there would be much more warring going on over territory. Its just too easy for the separate blocs to just avoid each other. I don't really know but I think the EVE universe should be filled with more war. Granted territory war is stale right now because of how much of an unnecessary headache it is but again that's a discussion for another time.

Anyway in closing EVE, particularly nullsec, is too large; anyone have any thoughts?


Some people like having some empty space to wander around in. If you like busy, there are planty of busy areas even in 0.0

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Signal11th
#11 - 2013-02-12 08:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Malcanis wrote:
Col Arran wrote:
With the other topic that just recently popped up on how EVE is too small, EVE Universe too small , I'm making a counter thread that proposes the notion that the universe is too large.

Firstly I'm sure at least most of us are aware of the vastness of Low and Null Security space. I'm not going to get into Unknown space at this time as that is an entire discussion in and of itself. Anyway back to nullsec, its too large for the number of players that live in it. Right now you can fly through many many systems and not find anyone in them. Personally I think nullsec should be, well more dense with players.

The problem in my mind is that there isn't enough incentive to fight over space in nullsec right now. However if nullsec was cut to half its size I'm sure there would be much more warring going on over territory. Its just too easy for the separate blocs to just avoid each other. I don't really know but I think the EVE universe should be filled with more war. Granted territory war is stale right now because of how much of an unnecessary headache it is but again that's a discussion for another time.

Anyway in closing EVE, particularly nullsec, is too large; anyone have any thoughts?


Some people like having some empty space to wander around in. If you like busy, there are planty of busy areas even in 0.0



As usual ^^ he speaks sense, really if anything it's like comparing the world in the 16th century to the world we have now.
It used to take months to get anywhere but now you can go anywhere in the world in around 24 hours.

Eve is not to big or to small it's just the technology we capsuleers have makes it small. And yes this is a veiled post about removing jumpbridges,titan bridges etc etc bite me Lol

E.g last night I moved all of my stuff from the south to the north, literally from the bottom to the top and it took me 15 minutes funnily enough through my perspective I see the Eve universe as way too small.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-02-12 08:34:57 UTC
Also I'd rather we made a concerted attempt to make 0.0 viable for more players to live in before we look at ways to shrink it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-12 08:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
The reason a lot of nullsec systems are empty is that there isn't that much to do there. Especially if there is no outpost to dock in. Check the moons for POS and the planets for POCO to see if there system is being used for that. People do fly around a lot probing down sites, but if they find one they will run it as quickly as possible and move on.

But most of nullsec is empty because there is just not enough stuff to do in them to keep people flying around in them 23/7.
Docter Daniel Jackson
Fleetworks Training
#14 - 2013-02-12 09:09:12 UTC
Eve is a growing game, with more players coming in over time, there needs to be space for them to grow into. 0.0 has no one out there because its owned by power blocks so it rely gets no great use.

If you want 0.0 to get more use make it more worth fighting over, then maybe people might try and fight the power blocks off for some space. Also making it more fun to fight over too.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#15 - 2013-02-12 09:17:16 UTC
We only need Jita anyway. Scrap the rest.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#16 - 2013-02-12 09:18:23 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
If we get rid of high-sec, EVE will be smaller. I think this satisfies your desire for a smaller EVE.

If we get rid of High-Sec, CCP would go bankrupt as the hordes of Highsec Carebears will unsub...
Ankles McGlashan
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-12 10:21:38 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
We only need Jita anyway. Scrap the rest.


So basically highsec sucks until some brave, libertarian nullsec dweller wants to go shopping?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-02-12 10:31:57 UTC
why would anyone want to fight over space if it's one gimped 0.0 system or ten?
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#19 - 2013-02-12 11:11:15 UTC
Col Arran wrote:

The problem in my mind is that there isn't enough incentive to fight over space in nullsec right now.


There is plenty of incentive to fight. However it's not enough of an incentive to surmount the gawd-awful hours and alarm clock ops for timers that need to be spent. Absolutely everyone is SICK of structure bashing. Even with dreads and supers it's a real PITA. Thus all the NIPs/NAPs that prevent real fights in nullsec. It's not about player density. It's about the horrible sov mechanics.

If you are being attacked now all you have to do is dock up and set your timers for your enemy's weakest time zone. Eventually your enemy will get fed up of waking up at 4am for timers, day after day, week after week. Defense not by attrition but rather by apathy. Some game mechanic.

Make space easier to take and then if you dock up and don't defend, you lose your space. No more blue-balling in a station waiting for the enemy to get bored, especially if he can roll over an entire region in a matter of hours. Fight, or be evicted. That is what nullsec needs.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-02-12 11:24:32 UTC
get rid of the forums
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