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Ancillary Armor reppers listed, but not seeded yet. stats inside.

Author
mental maverick
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#41 - 2013-02-11 22:09:05 UTC
Reppyk wrote:
So it's basically a regular armor repair that reps a bit more the first ~40s, then you must take a choice : stopping it for 60s (lol) or keeping using it but it's worst than a T2 rep.

It's... bad. Most of the active/armor fights I experienced lasted (a lot) longer than 40s. And the charges are way too expensive, making it a truely PVP module that carebears farming lvl4 will never ever use.

Half the paste & [cap while eating paste nanites] consumption and maybe it could be used.


I agree somewhat, it's not bad but what would really make it shine is if the use of nanite paste could be turned on and off since like you say, you rairly need the extra rep boost in the beginning of a fight when your in an armor tanked ship. Your just not doing enough dmg to be able to charge in and kill something while you still have nanites like you can do with the ASBs. The way to do it in armor tanking ships is split targets up and chew through the first one while his friends are on they're way and then use the nanite paste to survive long enough to kill off the first target you tackled. Repair amount seems pretty fine to me as is. Active tanking in general could use a boost in order to make active tanks on ships that don't have a tanking bonus viable but as long as Legion and Tengu links are around that isn't going to happen because it would make boosted active tanking retardedly OP in a small scale environment imo.

Making the AARs not require cap at all is just a really bad idea tbh and would only serve to make it an armor ASB which is just plain dumb and boring. I think it was a bad idea to make the ASBs capless since basicly the only way to counter it is more dps, as in more ppl. Lately I have kind of had a change of heart though because like a lot of ppl have discovered even though having a capless tank is really awesome, without any source of cap you are still extremely vulnerable to neuts since mobility, tackle, hardeners all require cap. I would rather they tried to tweek the ASBs properties and bring them down in performance in some way but still having them require no cap. Making it possible to only fit 1 ASB might be a solution but a rather boring one imo, I'd rather see them nerfing them a bit instead but still keep them a viable choice both single and double fit. Maybe make them use larger cap charges so you wont be able to tank forever and ever and ever... or make it harder to oversize them. The latter probably being the best solution.

For armor tanking I would like to see it go more towards being a efficient way of tanking, more rep/cap then shields but less rep amount per cycle. Since dmg mods are allways a pain to fit on an active armor tank you are basicly slowly grinding your targets down and therefor need a tank that is sustainable for a longer amount of time then you would in a shield tanked ship with lots of dmg mods in the lows. I like the changes to armor tanking so far but a cap reduction across the board is sorely needed especially on the large reppers.
Nesteh Rotsuda
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-02-11 22:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nesteh Rotsuda
I am no fit expert but I was thinking brawling frigates that would already consider using MASB to begin with. The SAAR might buy enough time for a reload on the MASB? Even if it didnt the amount of hp it would restore while overloaded for 6 cpu and 6 grid is quite alot.

I prefer using a regular shield booster on the breacher but this could give you an idea.

[Breacher, New Setup 4]
Small Armor Repairer II Replace with SAAR
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I

Rocket Launcher II,
Rocket Launcher II,
Rocket Launcher II,

Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x1

2% or 4.25 cpu short but that can be made up a couple ways.

Im thinking even a shield buffer fit might benefit from putting this in one of its lows.

Edit: quick Merlin buffer fit i threw together:

[Merlin, New Setup 3]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Small Armor Repairer II Replace with SAR

Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Light Neutron Blaster II,
Light Neutron Blaster II,
Light Neutron Blaster II,

Would this become a standard fit? WOuld it be OP?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#43 - 2013-02-11 22:54:33 UTC
Nesteh Rotsuda wrote:
I am no fit expert but I was thinking brawling frigates that would already consider using MASB to begin with. The SAAR might buy enough time for a reload on the MASB? Even if it didnt the amount of hp it would restore while overloaded for 6 cpu and 6 grid is quite alot.

I prefer using a regular shield booster on the breacher but this could give you an idea.

[Breacher, New Setup 4]
Small Armor Repairer II Replace with SAAR
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I

Rocket Launcher II,
Rocket Launcher II,
Rocket Launcher II,

Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x1

2% or 4.25 cpu short but that can be made up a couple ways.

Im thinking even a shield buffer fit might benefit from putting this in one of its lows.

Edit: quick Merlin buffer fit i threw together:

[Merlin, New Setup 3]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Small Armor Repairer II Replace with SAR

Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Light Neutron Blaster II,
Light Neutron Blaster II,
Light Neutron Blaster II,

Would this become a standard fit? WOuld it be OP?


It is a bad idea to try to dual tank a ship. It ends confused and performs badly. Both of these shield tanking ships have horrible armour stats. There is little buffer for them to try to stay ahead of. You'd be better served by damage modules, tracking enhancers, or even speed modules....
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#44 - 2013-02-11 23:02:37 UTC
I'm looking forward to the AAR. I think that if everyone thought them great they would quite possibly be overpowered. I remember threadnaughts on the projectile buff and supercarriers. 'Moar, moar, moar' on one and 'They're fine, we tested them. Put them in the game' on the other. Roll

The other end of the spectrum is the grand old metagame. Of all the combat and attack cruisers, only two still have dedicated utility slots - the Rupture and Stabber. Of the proposed rebalanced BC, most have to downsize something to fit a same size neut. I found myself slapping small neuts on the Harb, Ferox, Brutix, etc.... over on the test server. Even the Cyclone can only fit a medium and a small with it's two utility slots.... HAMs and one X-LASB take up the rest of the fitting.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#45 - 2013-02-11 23:03:23 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Nesteh Rotsuda wrote:
I am no fit expert but I was thinking brawling frigates that would already consider using MASB to begin with. The SAAR might buy enough time for a reload on the MASB? Even if it didnt the amount of hp it would restore while overloaded for 6 cpu and 6 grid is quite alot.

I prefer using a regular shield booster on the breacher but this could give you an idea.

[Breacher, New Setup 4]
Small Armor Repairer II Replace with SAAR
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I

Rocket Launcher II,
Rocket Launcher II,
Rocket Launcher II,

Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x1

2% or 4.25 cpu short but that can be made up a couple ways.

Im thinking even a shield buffer fit might benefit from putting this in one of its lows.

Edit: quick Merlin buffer fit i threw together:

[Merlin, New Setup 3]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Small Armor Repairer II Replace with SAR

Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Light Neutron Blaster II,
Light Neutron Blaster II,
Light Neutron Blaster II,

Would this become a standard fit? WOuld it be OP?


It is a bad idea to try to dual tank a ship. It ends confused and performs badly. Both of these shield tanking ships have horrible armour stats. There is little buffer for them to try to stay ahead of. You'd be better served by damage modules, tracking enhancers, or even speed modules....


Plate the **** out of a battle ship, plug in an XL-ASB. Dual tanking works well enough due to ASB's mechanics...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#46 - 2013-02-11 23:04:02 UTC
The Stabber has two missile slots IMO. They actually work out fairly well.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Nesteh Rotsuda
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-02-11 23:30:53 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Nesteh Rotsuda wrote:

Snip


It is a bad idea to try to dual tank a ship. It ends confused and performs badly. Both of these shield tanking ships have horrible armour stats. There is little buffer for them to try to stay ahead of. You'd be better served by damage modules, tracking enhancers, or even speed modules....


SAAR reps 135 > overloaded 148.5 > 8 reps 1188 > 1553 ehp vs exp or 2795 ehp vs em for the Merlin buffer fit. That doesnt include any unboosted reps you might get lucky to throw in. Pretty nice for 1 slot i think.

It just appears this will be a bigger boost to shield frigates then the armor ones.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#48 - 2013-02-12 01:25:35 UTC
Nesteh Rotsuda wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Nesteh Rotsuda wrote:

Snip


It is a bad idea to try to dual tank a ship. It ends confused and performs badly. Both of these shield tanking ships have horrible armour stats. There is little buffer for them to try to stay ahead of. You'd be better served by damage modules, tracking enhancers, or even speed modules....


SAAR reps 135 > overloaded 148.5 > 8 reps 1188 > 1553 ehp vs exp or 2795 ehp vs em for the Merlin buffer fit. That doesnt include any unboosted reps you might get lucky to throw in. Pretty nice for 1 slot i think.

It just appears this will be a bigger boost to shield frigates then the armor ones.


Take your Merlin fit, replace your meta MSE with the T2 version and the SAAR with a magstab. That Merlin in a comparison to yours, assuming both are fit with Null, does 161 DPS with 6085 EHP vs 131 DPS and 5691 EHP. Your SAAR has to cover an 11 second time-to-live hole with a kinetic resist in the 30's. In most circumstances the addition of rigs makes the dual tank Merlin's situation more desperate.

I prefer the extra DPS because in most situations I have to kill the target and GTFO before his friends arrive. The DPS on that gimmick fit is too low for me to consider it viable.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#49 - 2013-02-12 01:28:09 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Stabber has two missile slots IMO. They actually work out fairly well.

-Liang


It's Minmatar. I say PO-tato, you say po-TAT-o. Big smile
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#50 - 2013-02-12 18:56:49 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Stabber has two missile slots IMO. They actually work out fairly well.

-Liang


It's Minmatar. I say PO-tato, you say po-TAT-o. Big smile


choose 4 bonused guns and 2 unbonused missiles or 5 bonused guns and 1 unbonused missile.

Yea, thought so.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-02-15 22:12:29 UTC
so it uses cap in addition to charges instead of just charges like the asb, and it's charges are crazy expensive. So basically the same as the shield tanking variety but worse? In a patch to correct shield tanking being far superior to armor tanking. Anyone else find this ironic?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-02-15 23:07:38 UTC
Gitanmaxx wrote:
Anyone else find this ironic?


It's good for business, most of my materials to build that nanite past gets sold fast and way expensive than ever.
(schhhht don't say anyone Fozzie said somewhere there would be some changes on materials cost for those)

I don't know if any changes are going to be made about nanite paste components but as far as I'm concerned it's nothing really hard to build for self consumption, hell even the BPO can be made out of PI !!

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Cartheron Crust
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#53 - 2013-02-15 23:13:09 UTC
Terrible module that adds nothing to the game.

I would have been more satisfied with making all the existing armor repairers less cap hungry perhaps so you don't have to use as many moduless to viably active tank. Thus making it blatently obvious at the difference between shields and armor. This way you could use the extra fitting for either upgrading gun tiers or extra ewar.

This module is just trying to bandaid something that needs actual surgery. The other armor changes however are great. Smile

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-02-15 23:32:51 UTC
Cartheron Crust wrote:
This module is just trying to bandaid something that needs actual surgery.


Agree with this.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Whitehound
#55 - 2013-02-15 23:40:35 UTC
For how long can the AAR use repair paste? How does this compare to the ASB when cargo size is factored in?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#56 - 2013-02-16 00:28:08 UTC
For small gang / solo stuff in medium to small ships the difference in shield v armour is much less with the new AAR coming into play.

The ASB has silly tank numbers for a very short time period then you eiher reload and hope you have enough buffer to last or you cap yourself out in very little time as it keeps boosting then you wait for reload.
With the AAR you get a great burst tank for armour that lasts longer (due to slower cycle time) than ASB and when you run out of loaded nanite paste you still get a decent tankd ongoing. Cap is not an issue cos you fit to cap usages as an armour tanker anyways. The AAR just closes the gap somewhat in the 'burst' tanking.

FFS people stop trying to make shield tanking and armour tanking identical! they are different and operate in a different manner. With the changes to penalties and rigs for armour tanking they will be even more viable for the smaller ship classes. This is a good thing.

The tank differently if you can't see how to use it then don't use it!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#57 - 2013-02-16 00:53:14 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Stabber has two missile slots IMO. They actually work out fairly well.

-Liang


It's Minmatar. I say PO-tato, you say po-TAT-o. Big smile


choose 4 bonused guns and 2 unbonused missiles or 5 bonused guns and 1 unbonused missile.

Yea, thought so.


Or neuts. Which is the point. Of all the combat and attack cruisers out there only the Stabber and Rupture still have utility highs in the form of unbonused weapon slots. If you're making the point that they're silly not to fit said missile weapons - then you are supporting my larger point. Neutralizers are going to be the domain of specialized ships more and more as the rebalance goes on. Even the battlecruisers which have utility highs are being forced to sacrifice either tank or gank to get medium neuts fitted. More often you'll see them downsize the neut to small or skip it altogether. The metagame is changing and most don't even realize it.

Roll the damn thing out. Get a measure of the metagame. Make adjustments. This is their plan. I support it.
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