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[Discussion] T2 Production
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#21 - 2013-02-10 23:01:05 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

There are actually 264,611 mineable moons. You're having trouble finding accurate, public information, because there is no accurate, complete list of moons anywhere.


the issue there is if i tried to collect the data myself, say i launched a survey probe 1 a minute (a massively tall order tbh), 24 hours a day (pretty much impossible due to downtime) itd still take me close to 6 months to do so. thats not even considering itd cost me approximately 20Bil in survey probes.

with that knowledge alone i can understand why accurate and complete moon data is a closely guarded secret.

the questions rolling around in my head are:


  • Why does it appear (even with less than totally accurate info) that r8's and r16's are not exactly matched in location with what theyre used to make racially.
  • Why is it only r 8's and r16's contribute to the racial differences to t2 ships?
  • Can the proposed ring mining help alleviate any issue with this, if there even is one?



I'm not suggesting that you collect the data yourself. I would never wish that on my worst enemy. I'm just trying to explain why there is no accurate and complete moon data, secret or otherwise. GSF probably has the most complete listing, and I honestly wouldn't be totally shocked if they were willing to give you a rough statistical breakdown of moons by region if you asked the right people, but I would be shocked if it were anywhere close to being considered "complete."

To answer your questions (in an accurate, but mostly not exactly useful way):
1) Because that's how it turned out when CCP seeded the moons back in the Castor expansion. Or it's an artifact of the very non-random incompleteness of your data.
2) Because that's how CCP decided to balance T2 production in 2003.
3) There really is no issue with R8s, they're too common. The primary issue is with one regional R32 being thrust into the position of absolute bottleneck by a combination of r64 alchemy and a "rebalancing" of the material costs of components (and the componant costs of ships). Alchemy on its own would have probably reduced the value of r64s sufficiently to deal with the complaints of the time.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
DrBmN
Lippstadt Creed
Solyaris Chtonium
#22 - 2013-02-10 23:16:27 UTC
If you are lucky and find a harvestable moon somewhere in low sec or 0.0, and if you are even more lucky and its not a gas moon, iam preety sure you can make some profit out of it.

But be aware, it takes alot of planning, hauling, effort.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#23 - 2013-02-11 19:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
RubyPorto wrote:


To answer your questions (in an accurate, but mostly not exactly useful way):
1) Because that's how it turned out when CCP seeded the moons back in the Castor expansion. Or it's an artifact of the very non-random incompleteness of your data.
2) Because that's how CCP decided to balance T2 production in 2003.
3) There really is no issue with R8s, they're too common. The primary issue is with one regional R32 being thrust into the position of absolute bottleneck by a combination of r64 alchemy and a "rebalancing" of the material costs of components (and the componant costs of ships). Alchemy on its own would have probably reduced the value of r64s sufficiently to deal with the complaints of the time.


thanks ruby for trying to answer them to the best you can. #1 i cant really build upon for obvious reasons, unless i decide to do something mental and do the most tedious thing in eve for such an extended length of time that i could quite possibly go insane or become suicidal!

#2 however has depth and room for a discussion though as it is a system that could do with updating and possible re-balancing.

if r32's are moved into the area of "required materials for racial t2 components" instead of a component of the shared pool of t2 components used by all races, it will alleviate the bottleneck, but not remove it entirely. Tech would be needed for all caldari t2 stuff (ships/missiles/some shield mods etc...) and the others could be racialized (:S) in the same way.
Plus the location of most of the tech moons will make sense too!

#3 most people dont moon mine r8's or at least go straight past them when looking for moons to mine, 90% of that is because material mined needs to offset the POS fuel and logistics required to move it.

Can r4's/8's be considered to be the main drops from a ring mining mechanic?
Do many null sec corps make money on small POS's mining r8's?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#24 - 2013-02-12 03:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
I don't think racializing R32s the way R8s are is the way to go.

R32s were spread out the way they were in a vain attempt to foster interregional trade in Null (everyone shipped it to Jita instead), while R64s were intended to be the bottleneck (and thus spread all over the map, with differing concentrations to provide for "better" and "worse" space). Rejiggering everything to return R64s to their intended place as bottlenecks is, IMO, the best option (with Alchemy remaining as a pressure release, ofc).

From my reaction spreadsheet:
Material Mining Gross Income (MIL)
Atmospheric Gases 5.41
Cadmium 166.81
Caesium 168.01
Chromium 189.86
Cobalt 237.89
Dysprosium 638.42
Evaporite Deposits 39.31
Hafnium 135.48
Hydrocarbons 11.02
Mercury 446.88
Neodymium 3,360.37
Platinum 574.56
Promethium 313.57
Scandium 111.37
Silicates 57.15
Technetium 5,644.88
Thulium 117.47
Titanium 133.74
Tungsten 45.77
Vanadium 211.82

Selling to buy orders (via EVE-Central), and monthly income working on a 28 day month. Judge for yourself what's worth running a small tower on (because I'm too lazy to :math:).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#25 - 2013-02-14 04:38:30 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Hey all!


Just wondering... are there are any t2 producers that read this part of the eve forums that actually work through the entire chain for t2 production?

ie. from moon goo all the way to the final product.

Understandably this may mean null sec indys so if u wanna post via an alt im cool with that too.

thanks! \o/


In actuality its more along the lines of Economy, you can say own a platinum moon or 3 but will still need different mats others produce, so you would sale your excess platinum for their excess cobalt, kind of an exchange but ISK being the Medium.

as for producing EVERYTHING, that's kind of tough for a single person, besides I think CCP would make sure something bad happens, because its simple, if you don't share some of your monopoly with others here, then expect a nerf shortly thereafter.
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