EVE General Discussion

Not the only one repeating myself. I'm repeating myself because others are, you just don't want to draw attention to the ones that are on your side of the fence :).

Also I said I judge by someone SHOWING that experience. CCP has very very clearly shown experience and skill with what they've done. While you describe it as this grand undertaking with only your own word to back it up... yeeeah.

I think at some point you stopped arguing about skill prerequisites.
I can't for the life of me figure out where that transition happened.

No, time is value and you got exactly what you wanted for that expenditure. If you want to get the same thing now, you will have to spend less time to get it, but that doesn't change how much it was worth in the past, nor does it mean that you should be reimbursed because the price has changed.

Again, if it was worth it at the time, it was worth it at the time, and it's current worth is largely irrelevant (especially in this case since that value doesn't change in any way among those who complain).

…or if the mechanic did not create any history of advantages. Had there been, say, a ”pink ship” skill that did what it said on the can, and then that skill and mechanic were removed and replaced by a simple drop-down in your fitting screen, then the skill pretty much never existed from an ability standpoint.

…and that's exactly what we have here. Getting into the ship takes less time now. Progress. Just like grinding to get a Drake takes less time now than it did in the past. Also progress. Having to walk in the snow, bare-foot, uphill, against the wind doesn't mean that now that I have a car, I should be allowed to ignore the speed limit to make up for all the time I lost during those walks. It just means that now I have a car instead — yay! Should I run out of petrol, I also know how long it takes to walk to the petrol station — so also yay!

The difference was that in that case, the idiotic and counter-productive meta-mechanic was rightfully removed. The time spent was turned into a black hole, and they had every right to have that time actually count for something. In this case, the time spent still counts for the same thing it did before.

This is different because after the change the learning skills had no purpose in the game anymore. Their function was removed. On the other hand the people with mining barge V will still to their utter joy still be able to fly a maxed out covetor.

The only time the reimbursement of this kind would make sense is if they removed the mining barge skill from the game entirely.

close brackets/parenthesis (sorry that bugged me)

ninja edit: also yes E

If you go and buy a car and then 2 months later you find out that the car is now 2 grand cheaper do you stand in the dealership and argue with the salesman? If you do, what do you think the response will be?

And before you come back with an arguement along the lines of "if he wants my repeat business, then he'll give me my cash back" then I'm not interested, because this has not happened in the history of people buying stuff ever. *

It is unfortunate (for some posters) that due to the changes CCP has in the pipeline, they perceive that they are getting short changed. I am sympathetic. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, the price for an Orca before was Mining Barge V. In the future it won't be. Thats the way of it. You could fly it before. You can now. In the future new players will have a slight advantage in getting to that skill.

However you are already [insert your number of skillpoints here] ahead of of Bob the day old newb, so I think you can probably let them have that relatively small advantage.


* On the advice of my lawyer, I will caveat this. It may of happened once, but the chances of it happening are so freakishly and outstandingly remote, that it's pretty much zero.

Again you keep using reasoning that can be applied to removed skills too. The ones removed were rightfully removed much like prereqs were rightfully adjusted but your entire reasoning for this, them not losing what they gained applies to both. Because more people get access to it than others? But wouldn't that just be the jealousy argument on a larger scale? Or "I spent my time on those skills, I want that time back." Well, people spent the time on the mining barges too. In fact, you could apply the learning skill removable as them reducing the time to train the skills to zero. For some pilots, its similar, the training time for the skills got reduced. So what it comes down to is what the end benefit of the changes were

Learning Skill owners: Got faster SP than others at the time and bonus SP they could use freely.
Ship skill affected by change: Can fly a ship they may or may not use better than someone else who trained up to the skill after the change...

Now my impression, of what your thinking is this:

Ship skill benefit >= Learning skill owner.

Some others though see it like this

Ship skill benefit < Learning skill owner.

I see it as kind of varying from person to person and situation. There ARE reasons to not give it. Especially since certain aspects can't be kept track of. I personally think its better for some to unfairly benefit than it is for some to be detrimented by being forced to keep skills that never applied to anything they did besides that which it no longer affects.
On the other hand, I can see it being argued that doing this would allow them to ignore even the previous prerequisites as well, which wouldn't be an acceptable at all.

What has this got to do with anything? It is bullshit.

Some players have trained for an Orca and trained all the skills they needed for it, knowing that they do not need/want all of them, but they did it because they had no other choice if they wanted to get into this ship. They accepted the nonsense knowingly and moved on so that they can continue with their game in the way they want to play it.

These players knew back then, and before CCP did, how stupid some of the requirements were.

Now does CCP finally come to realize this for themselves and fixes this.

Why would CCP not want to give these players their points back and to allow them to redistribute these points in whatever way they see fit?

You have to be a total douche to stand here and to argue that they cannot have this. It reminds me of someone having a God complex, believing they are the only ones who figured out how wrong this, everyone else is dumb and little, and only they have the power to fix this, and their players not deserving any kind of compensation for running around with the skill for years!

Why would ever assume anything in a video game is set in stone? Tweaks happen all the time, especially in MMO's.

That is somewhat silly on your part my friend.

Speaking as a total douche. I HAVE a toon that specced just for an Orca and I'm still not on your side. Calling it a god complex is a bit rich. I try and look at it more that I had the added bonus of having it for longer than the guys who will now rush for it. I really don't see the problem. maybe I'm just an idiot what with being a total douche and all.