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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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"Negative" bonus Amarr ships?
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Eunice Huang
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-02-11 09:56:12 UTC
Help, I'm confused.


Omen traits: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
Question How is this a bonus? If it takes more capacitor energy to fire my guns, I will run out of capacitor a lot faster. Is there some sort of mechanic that I don't know of? A skill that will increase turret's damage the more capacitor they use?

Harbinger traits: 10% reduction in Medium Energy Turret capacitor need
Prophecy traits: 10% reduction in Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
QuestionWhat's the difference here? Why the use of two different verbs and what does that mean?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I'm genuinly confused. English is not my native language and it's not the first time I've misunderstood game mechanics because of this. Hope someone can enlighten me.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#2 - 2013-02-11 10:09:26 UTC
i belive CCP will be clearing up and unifying how things are stated soon, but it does mean it takes LESS capacitor to fire guns on the omen per level, prime example is that insted of rate of fire like everyting else the stabber uses " bonus to fireing speed" it can be annoying i admit
Dheeradj Nurgle
Hoover Inc.
Snuffed Out
#3 - 2013-02-11 10:28:43 UTC
They are confusing, but it is safe to assume that it's ALWAYS a reduction in capacitor need. I think they are writing by different teams who had different ideas on how it should be displayed.

There are plans to make it less confusing IIRC.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#4 - 2013-02-11 11:11:42 UTC
For years CCP has used negative bonuses and positive penalties in their ongoing quest to make the UI and info as ****** as possible. Just apply logic and in most cases you'll work it out.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#5 - 2013-02-11 12:43:09 UTC
Eunice Huang wrote:

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I'm genuinly confused. English is not my native language and it's not the first time I've misunderstood game mechanics because of this. Hope someone can enlighten me.


They're not stupid questions, and English isn't the first language of the CCP guys either, so the kind of mistakes that you've pointed out are very common in the text inside and surrounding EVE Online.

Rest assured that in all cases it actually means a reductive modifier to weapon capacitor use. Otherwise players would have complained loudly and collectively, and CCP would have fixed the mechanics. So it's merely a documentation issue.
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-11 16:16:14 UTC
They should probably read something like "X% less capacitor.." "X% shorter rate of fire.."
Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#7 - 2013-02-11 18:01:54 UTC
Eunice Huang wrote:
Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I'm genuinly confused. English is not my native language and it's not the first time I've misunderstood game mechanics because of this. Hope someone can enlighten me.


You don't need to apologise. :)

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#8 - 2013-02-11 18:10:25 UTC
Maire Gheren wrote:
They should probably read something like "X% less capacitor.." "X% shorter rate of fire.."


Well, in the case of "rate", a greater rate means a larger quantity of whatever per unit of time, so positive is correct.
Oraac Ensor
#9 - 2013-02-11 22:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Maire Gheren wrote:
They should probably read something like "X% less capacitor.." "X% shorter rate of fire.."


Well, in the case of "rate", a greater rate means a larger quantity of whatever per unit of time, so positive is correct.

Except, of course, that this is another area where CCP get their terminology in a twist.

When they quote 'rate of fire' they don't actually give the rate of fire because, instead of the correct quantity over time format, they give a time in seconds, which is the firing interval, not the rate of fire.

So a firing interval of 5 secs is a rate of fire of 12 rpm and the terms longer/shorter can't actually be applied. The firing interval can be longer/shorter but rate of fire can only be greater/lesser or faster/slower.
Oraac Ensor
#10 - 2013-02-11 22:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Salpad wrote:
They're not stupid questions, and English isn't the first language of the CCP guys either, so the kind of mistakes that you've pointed out are very common in the text inside and surrounding EVE Online.

I'm pretty sure that CCP Unifex is a Brit and I believe CCP Greyscale is too, unless I'm getting confused over names.

There must be others, so they ought to have plenty of opportunity to get things properly vetted.

For instance, there should be no excuse for the error I encountered last night when I accidentally clicked 'Lock Target' on a Customs Office. This produced a pop-up saying "You failed to target nothing" when I had, of course, totally succeeded in targeting nothing.
Merouk Baas
#11 - 2013-02-11 22:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
You should have seen the error messages and ship/skill descriptions circa 2003-4.

Also, in all fairness, failure to target nothing is the same as success at targetting nothing. It's because of the nothing. Similarly to mathematics: whether or not you add 0 to a number, the result is the same - the number remains unchanged.
Oraac Ensor
#12 - 2013-02-11 22:38:55 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
You should have seen the error messages and ship/skill descriptions circa 2003-4.

Also, in all fairness, failure to target nothing is the same as success at targetting nothing. It's because of the nothing. Similarly to mathematics: whether or not you add 0 to a number, the result is the same - the number remains unchanged.

Not quite.

I could only fail to target nothing if I was attempting to target nothing, which wasn't the case. So failure to target nothing would have to mean I targeted something, which I didn't.

Marvellous thing, language. Big smile
Merouk Baas
#13 - 2013-02-11 23:11:47 UTC
I promised to eat nothing for 2 hours, and I failed - means you ate something.
I failed to say nothing - can mean you remained silent, unable to utter the word "nothing".

Would the error message be ok to you if they enclose the word "nothing" in quotation marks? It's what the computer means, anyway.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-02-11 23:27:16 UTC
This has nothing to do with EVE. Its about spaceships, not grammar or language.

Nothing to see here, please move along (and stay on topic)

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Oraac Ensor
#15 - 2013-02-11 23:37:56 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
I promised to eat nothing for 2 hours, and I failed - means you ate something.
I failed to say nothing - can mean you remained silent, unable to utter the word "nothing".
Exactly my point.

J'Poll wrote:
This has nothing to do with EVE. Its about spaceships, not grammar or language.
The OP's questions are very specifically about language and its meaning.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-02-12 22:16:26 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Merouk Baas wrote:
You should have seen the error messages and ship/skill descriptions circa 2003-4.

Also, in all fairness, failure to target nothing is the same as success at targetting nothing. It's because of the nothing. Similarly to mathematics: whether or not you add 0 to a number, the result is the same - the number remains unchanged.

Not quite.

I could only fail to target nothing if I was attempting to target nothing, which wasn't the case. So failure to target nothing would have to mean I targeted something, which I didn't.

Marvellous thing, language. Big smile


Comparisons against null always returns false or exceptions, depending on your language.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#17 - 2013-02-13 01:11:23 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
For years CCP has used negative bonuses and positive penalties in their ongoing quest to make the UI and info as ****** as possible. Just apply logic and in most cases you'll work it out.


I've heard "t2 ammo is supposed to be better so it is a tracking bonus!" a few too many times.

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Keno Skir
#18 - 2013-02-13 06:19:52 UTC
It's called a BONUS.

Use your head..

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