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Counter Counter Counter Hotdrop

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Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-02-08 00:27:02 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Its not like you can't see a hot drop coming a mile off if you have even a shred of common sense... don't get in scram range, switch to kiting setups and/or bump them over 500m/s so they can't light cyno or something instead of taking the unimaginative route of trying to get something nerfed purely because you lack the creativity to combat it.

when you say that you can even go along the slippery slope and say scrams aren't necessary so as long as you have the creativity to bump it

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#22 - 2013-02-08 01:03:52 UTC
Bumping was just one example of many possible ways to deal with a hot drop, infact bumping isn't a very reliable method tho it works in some circumstances.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#23 - 2013-02-08 14:18:08 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Its not like you can't see a hot drop coming a mile off if you have even a shred of common sense... don't get in scram range, switch to kiting setups and/or bump them over 500m/s so they can't light cyno or something instead of taking the unimaginative route of trying to get something nerfed purely because you lack the creativity to combat it.

You support the status quo.
It is much shorter and to the point if you open up with this, rather than try to imply what we have now is somehow the best possible version of things.

Without amazing intel to make the population spike free and open knowledge for everyone, noone in their right mind chooses the additional risks associated with a hot drop.

It's simply a one trick pony that only exists to counter amazing intel.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#24 - 2013-02-08 14:31:17 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Its not like you can't see a hot drop coming a mile off if you have even a shred of common sense... don't get in scram range, switch to kiting setups and/or bump them over 500m/s so they can't light cyno or something instead of taking the unimaginative route of trying to get something nerfed purely because you lack the creativity to combat it.

And then what? Don't get into the webbing range of Loki-boosted Rapier and Lachesis combo, which can get you pinned from 100 km?

Might as well have put it this way: don't undock!11oneone

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#25 - 2013-02-08 14:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Its not like you can't see a hot drop coming a mile off if you have even a shred of common sense... don't get in scram range, switch to kiting setups and/or bump them over 500m/s so they can't light cyno or something instead of taking the unimaginative route of trying to get something nerfed purely because you lack the creativity to combat it.

And then what? Don't get into the webbing range of Loki-boosted Rapier and Lachesis combo, which can get you pinned from 100 km?

Might as well have put it this way: don't undock!11oneone


As you mention lachesis rather than arazu and loki links I assume your talking about a fight with numbers on each side that then escalated via cyno rather a single bait cyno ship - which is another story as your gonna lose stuff thats long range tackled however reinforcements arrive whether cynoing in or jumping in via gates.

Backup fleet arriving with skirmish links and rapier/arazu via cyno are going to take a few moments to be able to lock anything and get links up - if you on the ball theres a good enough margin to get most sub battleship stuff out that aren't in scram range of the bait.


EDIT: Keep in mind I'm not suggesting any one method as a magic pill just saying theres a variety of methods that can be used to anticipate and/or counter/reduce risk from hot drops its not like its a completely one way street.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#26 - 2013-02-08 15:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Lachesis, Arazu - whatever. You miss the fact how the fight can get started with half ships already present in the grid rather than 1 liting a cyno for the 20 others. Why would anyone sane miss an opportunity to fight in more or less equal numbers? Right, hardly anyone would. And ganktards exploit that with ease, while in normal circumstances it would take them at least a minute to arrive to the battlefield even if they somehow managed to remain unrevealed.

In no way gankers are commited to devote just one ship to initial baiting. It can easily be 3 or even 10. In that case the entire rhetorics degenerates into 'don't fight at all' or 'don't undock', as I said above.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-02-10 03:36:49 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Its not like you can't see a hot drop coming a mile off if you have even a shred of common sense... don't get in scram range, switch to kiting setups and/or bump them over 500m/s so they can't light cyno or something instead of taking the unimaginative route of trying to get something nerfed purely because you lack the creativity to combat it.


WE CAN see a hot drop coming , but even when we do , you MUST have the element of blob to have any chance to defeat a hot dropper , its a passive role.
That's why I'm suggesting the CYNO jammer .
Taking the initiative into our own hands and tackle the threat effectively.
EVERYTHING in this game has a counter , ECC. for ECM ,scram.ers for MWD, sensor disruptors for tacklers , tracking disruptors for snipers .
Now , cyno jammer for hot drop baits.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#28 - 2013-02-10 05:51:11 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Its not like you can't see a hot drop coming a mile off if you have even a shred of common sense... don't get in scram range, switch to kiting setups and/or bump them over 500m/s so they can't light cyno or something instead of taking the unimaginative route of trying to get something nerfed purely because you lack the creativity to combat it.


WE CAN see a hot drop coming , but even when we do , you MUST have the element of blob to have any chance to defeat a hot dropper , its a passive role.
That's why I'm suggesting the CYNO jammer .
Taking the initiative into our own hands and tackle the threat effectively.
EVERYTHING in this game has a counter , ECC. for ECM ,scram.ers for MWD, sensor disruptors for tacklers , tracking disruptors for snipers .
Now , cyno jammer for hot drop baits.


Hot droppers, like afk cloaking, are made to be an unstoppable and invincible strategy.

Welcome to eve, it aint changing
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-02-10 07:29:11 UTC
Iminent Penance wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Its not like you can't see a hot drop coming a mile off if you have even a shred of common sense... don't get in scram range, switch to kiting setups and/or bump them over 500m/s so they can't light cyno or something instead of taking the unimaginative route of trying to get something nerfed purely because you lack the creativity to combat it.


WE CAN see a hot drop coming , but even when we do , you MUST have the element of blob to have any chance to defeat a hot dropper , its a passive role.
That's why I'm suggesting the CYNO jammer .
Taking the initiative into our own hands and tackle the threat effectively.
EVERYTHING in this game has a counter , ECC. for ECM ,scram.ers for MWD, sensor disruptors for tacklers , tracking disruptors for snipers .
Now , cyno jammer for hot drop baits.


Hot droppers, like afk cloaking, are made to be an unstoppable and invincible strategy.

Welcome to eve, it aint changing


How did the Arab spring goes for ya ?
If you believe , its reality !!!

Change don't come from acceptance ,it comes from perserance and hope for change.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#30 - 2013-02-10 21:34:23 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Its not like you can't see a hot drop coming a mile off if you have even a shred of common sense... don't get in scram range, switch to kiting setups and/or bump them over 500m/s so they can't light cyno or something instead of taking the unimaginative route of trying to get something nerfed purely because you lack the creativity to combat it.


WE CAN see a hot drop coming , but even when we do , you MUST have the element of blob to have any chance to defeat a hot dropper , its a passive role.
That's why I'm suggesting the CYNO jammer .
Taking the initiative into our own hands and tackle the threat effectively.
EVERYTHING in this game has a counter , ECC. for ECM ,scram.ers for MWD, sensor disruptors for tacklers , tracking disruptors for snipers .
Now , cyno jammer for hot drop baits.

You are talking about a counter. That reference is not accurate.

If you must use it, use the full and correct version. You are talking about a counter to a counter.
In electronic warfare, for example, they call it ECM since it blocks an effect. The tools to stop this block are called ECCM.
Anything to counter hot dropping would equate to ECCM in that context.

Hot Dropping is one of the two counters to Amazing Intel™. It has no value unless the population spike caused by fleet entry is handed out for free by the instant Amazing Intel™.

If people did not have this free instant warning, all hot dropping would accomplish is placing the bottleneck for entry at risk towards the pilot with the greatest motivation to stop it at any cost. Or, the Target, for short.

A strategic cyno placing the attack ships in the same system, if not gating them in normally, would be more practical. But then, as it is right now, Amazing Intel™ reports that population spike instantly. This is more than enough warning to get a target safe with 100% success probability.
So they hot drop instead.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
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