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FW: Fix AWOXing!!!!!

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Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-02-06 08:20:52 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I will warn you right now that AWOX-ing already has a tried-and-true, player-driven solution. Wardec the offending individuals if they are in a player corp, set standings and overview to view them as red, and eke revenge as necessary. I personally do not believe in an any kind of contrived mechanic to prevent purple-on-purple attacks. This is EVE Online, unsolicited PvP is everywhere, Faction Warfare should be no exception.

That being said, the OP has a point in that labeling two factions the same color while having differing standings penalties is confusing, and against the stated purpose of Crimewatch 2.0 which is to make rules and penalties crystal clear. I will speak to CCP about this and in the meantime, situational awareness is everything. Remember - no amount of visual distinction between militias will tell you who's about to AWOX you. I think the solution here lies more in the standings penalty than trying to encourage people to rely on someone's color to warn you of danger.



My biggest problem with awoxing is that it does not generate kill rights. Why doesn't it do this?

Also, does crimewatch consider awoxing a criminal act? As it really is because someone engaging someone who isn't in their corp or is at war with is, as I understand it, an illegal act.

Like I say, I have no problem with them doing it but standings hits and kill rights need to be generated.
Fabio Bittar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-02-06 15:30:34 UTC
There is no such thing as unsolicited PvP.

Read the rules again.

You undocked.
Ginger Barbarella
#43 - 2013-02-06 21:41:01 UTC
Douche-bags exist in all places in life, intarwebs spaceships games. Just make a note of who they are, spread the news when you can, and never forget. Personally I'm thinking about setting up GSCs outside places like Hek/Boundless with the names of the AWOXers/Spais just to annoy them and make them flip.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Theron Urian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-02-07 05:07:36 UTC
Ok all of the unsolicited pvp blah blah blah aside, you are signing up with a militia group to further your empires interests and have an ally of another militia group as well.

Does no one find it kind of odd that the militia doesn't really give two poops about you shooting the allied militia and only gives you a slap on the wrist for shooting your own?

You joined in to a mechanic that endorse objective based group play to further the goals of your and the allies militia, sorry but it would make sense to have a large standing hit for shooting both your own militia and allies.

If you want to shoot neutrals go ahead, if you want to shoot evrey one then go pirate.

I understand eve is dangerous and all the "I am so L33T" jabber but this does not make sense from a game play or lore stand point.

You shoot a corp or alliance mate in a player corp, buh bye your booted. I don't see going to that extreme in this case but there should be some strict penalty's, that will eventually end up in a boot.
B55
#45 - 2013-02-08 16:02:00 UTC
So.. since I mainly operate in Gallente space I was thinking of joining my POS corp into the fw so I have something to do while production lines do their work. However what I read here is troubling.

Besides being able to attack me with no drawback (save a standing loss) can other members Militia members attack my High Sec POS without any previous war dec and no drawback?

Am I better just creating an alt for this?
Theaty Chelien
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-02-10 03:12:13 UTC
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
As the greatest practitioner of the art said:

[ 2012.01.15 18:36:17 ] Adolf Ehrnrooth > you were in fully armed combat ship



Oh adolf...that moda_____ awoxes me any time any spot he meets me Pirate
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#47 - 2013-02-10 03:22:11 UTC
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
As the greatest practitioner of the art said:

[ 2012.01.15 18:36:17 ] Adolf Ehrnrooth > you were in fully armed combat ship



Yeah as if getting your range and surprise is no advantage. Awoxing is definitely a way to pad your bc killboard but its about as legit as killing your own alts.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Fireflyb1
Walden 2.0
#48 - 2013-02-10 05:26:16 UTC
[quote=Aldrith Shutaq]not experienced enough to know of this.quote]

Unfortunately, this means absolutely nothing in Eve...
Agustice Arterius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-02-10 23:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Agustice Arterius
So the ingame message says

"We are at war with the Caldari State, and their allies the Amarr Empire"

That is actually false? Since according to this forum, Caldari State should treat the Amar as neutrals instead?

"We are at war with the Caldari State, and their sorta kinda not friends Amarr Empire"?
Makavelia
National Industries
#50 - 2013-02-11 10:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Makavelia
Omg ;p. I was thinking on giving FW a try but glad i read this. It's funy how the people killing say ''part of the game'' ''hardcore yo''. That's not real pvp lol ;p.. attcking somebody you are suppose to be allied with o0. As the other guys said, it's about as valid as killing your own alt.

And CCP are imo a bad company to dress up FW as allied combat. It appears to be nothing more than a place for vets to gank unsuspecting ''allies'' with no punishment. If you wanted to offer players more pvp with less punishment theirs easier ways to go abou it than dressing it up so newb players take the hit. That's such a bad policy and their is nothing ''hardcore'' or ''fun'' about it other than for the delushional EVE fanboys who think they are ahead of the curve.

But w/e, you can hide bad ideas with the ideals that eve is suppose to be a harsh place.. it's a load of bs though ;p.
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#51 - 2013-02-11 11:29:18 UTC
Just throwing this out there: I have been in FW for over three months now and I have witnessed an AWOX only once...due to an overview problem regarding a pilot's security status overriding their ally status. No ship losses were incurred. So yeah...I hear about AWOX'ers and what not on here but I have yet, in the tens of fleets I am in weekly, ever witnessed a true one. Nor have I overheard griefing or complaining about someone being AWOX'd.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
Lin Suizei
#52 - 2013-02-11 11:43:26 UTC
Makavelia wrote:
And CCP are imo a bad company to dress up FW as allied combat. It appears to be nothing more than a place for alts in cloaky stabbed ships to generate tremendous amounts of LP defensive plexing while at zero risk to themselves


I see you made some spelling errors in your post, I have fixed them for you. Besides, if someone's flying a ship worth awoxing, someone will probably have a go at that individual, war target or not.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-02-11 11:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dante Uisen
Makavelia wrote:
Omg ;p. I was thinking on giving FW a try but glad i read this. It's funy how the people killing say ''part of the game'' ''hardcore yo''. That's not real pvp lol ;p.. attcking somebody you are suppose to be allied with o0. As the other guys said, it's about as valid as killing your own alt.


I play faction warfare on my main character, and friendly killing don't seem to be a huge problem, i have not yet been killed by "friendly" fire. I'm fighting for Amarr, and i have not had any problems with the Caldari players i meet, so don't let the chance of friendly fire keep you from trying factional warfare.

I would personally prefer if they removed allied status, instead of changing the colors. Either you are allied with same color and don't shoot each other, or you are not. Having different colors, is the same as saying "don't trust that guy", so there is no reason for the allied status.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-02-11 13:53:53 UTC
Morgan Torry wrote:
Just throwing this out there: I have been in FW for over three months now and I have witnessed an AWOX only once...due to an overview problem regarding a pilot's security status overriding their ally status.


Heh, I nearly shot at a friendly yesterday because of the same overview problem. How embarassing.

I've only been doing FW for a day but I don't think its especially common. Certainly the fleet I was operating with was happy not to worry about any purples/blues in local. And I'd imagine word would travel fast following a blue on blue kill.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#55 - 2013-02-11 18:27:50 UTC
CCPs default overview is really bad and needs to be fixed. I think it places the negative sec status background as a priority over someone being in your militia. So most attacks on miliita are not from awoxing and ccp should give us a better default overview.

That said I have lost ships ot awoxers. I guess my combat ship was fully armed but I wasn't even thinking of attacking the 2 cruisers until they had me scrammed and webbed. I have seen other people getting awoxed as well.

I would agree that it is not so common that it should keep someone out of faction war now. But it is common enough that the "top ranked recent" battleclinic pvper is a fw awoxer.

Its rare that people in fw will refer to this as some sort of "art" or give them any credit like Cynthia Nezmor seemed to do. I will say local can be pretty funny from these guys. But on the whole ccp should stiffen the penalties and make the militias more aware of who is doing this.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#56 - 2013-02-11 18:58:03 UTC
Agreed, this happened to me just this weekend, purples land, point me, so I blapped them. Found out later their FC saw me only as red and ordered engaging. It's annoying and while it does provide some "surprise" pvp and kills, I always feel a bit guilty afterwords.

Cearain wrote:
CCPs default overview is really bad and needs to be fixed. I think it places the negative sec status background as a priority over someone being in your militia. So most attacks on miliita are not from awoxing and ccp should give us a better default overview.

nom nom
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#57 - 2013-02-11 19:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
A possible solution that would help deter awoxing as well as still allow people to join who don't have good faction standing could be as follows:

You can join a corp if you have poor standing: However, if you perform any action that decreases your faction standing, if you do not have the individual standing to remain in FW you are removed from corp and cannot reapply to any FW corp in that faction for say a week.

That way, people who otherwise maintain good fw standings and make some mistakes won't have any issues. Those who join a FW corp to repair their standings can do so as long as they are careful. Those who merely awox others can only do so once a week per faction.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#58 - 2013-02-13 23:22:34 UTC
Removed an off topic post. Please do not attempt to sell characters unless you are selling them in Character bazaar. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#59 - 2013-02-14 21:54:57 UTC
Everybody does it.
Yes we should get standings hit for it but we don't

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#60 - 2013-02-14 22:48:41 UTC
von Khan wrote:
AWOXing in Faction War:;

As i understand the term its, When a player of an millitia attacks the other allied millitia player without provocation or as an act of piracy. They dont get standing penalty for their respective millitia. This is flawed, they should be penalized somehow, or dont appear purple at all.

ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Clarifying what's going on...

The root of the issue: Retribution changed the "in my militia" overview state to "in my militia or one allied to mine".

What the issue is:

  • Shooting neutrals gives you a Suspect Flag (used to be GCC) .
  • Shooting people in your own militia (blues) gives you Suspect Flag (used to be GCC) and docks your standings with your militia to discourage shooting allies.
  • Shooting people in an allied militia (now also blues) only gives you a Suspect flag (used to be GCC), and does not penalize you for shooting allies.


Previous to Retribution, the third bullet point did not exist, as allied militia just showed up as neutral. The lack of differentiation between "my militia" and "allied militia" is making it unclear who is shootable and with what consequences.


Umadbro?
sowwee
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