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Myrmidon Overhaul -> 100m³ or 125m³
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Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#1 - 2013-02-01 01:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Destriouth Hollow
I have read several articles that mentioned the new Myrmidon overhaul will give it 125m³ and other articles stated it to be 100m³- (I can supply some of those posts if wished for)
This might be a total non-issue for regular eve-players, but nobody said that I would be normal (:

I'm a complete and utter drone-nerd!
I don't know how many thousand articles I have read regarding Eve Online, but I estimate arround 70-80% of them beeing drone or drone-boat related. (counting those i read multiple times ^^)

I really love the new tristan as a cheap alternative to the ishkur and worm, the sheer power of the dominix and rattlesnake (even if the rattlesnake does sub-par damage compared to the other Pirate-BS. it's tank is epic)
I love Carriers, Supercarrier and everything about them.

Now enough of my childish behavior and wetting myself (:
I like to produce most of my damage using drones and am therefore happy for the vast amount of capable ships.
I would however like a ship between cruiser and BS-size with fitting drone-bandwith.
Currently 125m² is the maximum amount of drones a normal Ship can support. Obviously, since BS are the biggest regular ship-size there are 2 BS having 125m².
Frigates are currently capped at 25² which works quite fine.
Regular T1/Navy-Faction Cruisers are in between at 75m²-100m²

What I find disturbing is having two cruisers at 125m² (Gila and Ishtar) and the best Battlecruiser (Myrmidon) at 75m². Putting it to 100m³ will make this less weird but it will still feel akward.
I think Eve should have a Battlecruiser with 125m² Bandwith as long as 2 cruisers have 125m³.
Additionally there should be a difference between BS and Cruisers. (Bandwrith, Damagebonus, additional Drone-Boni)

So here my main question:
Which information is right?
a) Myrmidon is going to have 100 bandwith
b) Myrmidon is going to have 125 bandwith
?

I strongly hope for the later as I would really like to fly BCs too. I can however not feel warm with a BC that is so much less dedicated than a small cruiser. A Tech-2-Drone-BC would alternatively make me happy too.

If a) is the case I will sadly have to stick with Tristan/Ishkur/Worm/Gila/Ishtar/Dominix for PvP, but I would always wish for a capable BC. If b) would the the case I would totally be looking forward to this summer's BC changes and I would use the Myrmidon as one of my main-ships. Again: Screw Turret-DPS! I rather have 0 turret-slots and 125m³! I know that this might not make the Myrmidon stronger for PvP, but this is not about buffing or nerfing it. I just want to be the most supporting host I can be for my drones (: And if my little dronies have to stay home because the garden isn't big enough I have to buy a different house (:

If anyone could answer me I would deeply appreciate this (:

Ah and Btw:
Supercarriers are too small!
Their volumue/material/hp and everything else puts them at 1/3 to 1/2 of a titan. Yet they are only like 3 times bigger than a Battleship and smaller than a freakn dreadnaught. A Dread should pale next to a mothership!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-01 01:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
The Myrmadon is a tech 1 battlecruiser and really shouldn't be expected to have the same functional capacity as drone dedicated battleships, tech 2 ships or pirate ships. I've not seen and information suggesting an increase to 125mbit, but last check the F&I thread on BC balancing feedback listed 100mbit.

There are also more than 2 BS's with 125mbit drone bandwidth, 3 of which (Domi, NDomi, Rattlesnake) have drone bonuses.

As far as a 125mbit BC, there may be hope for the Eos to fill that role come the command ship balance, but anything there is highly speculative at best.

Edit: Totally forgot about the Sin as it has 125 band and a drone bonus, so 4 BS's.
Leetha Layne
#3 - 2013-02-01 01:50:37 UTC
Myrm with dual reps and ACs is a fun PvP ship as it is!
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#4 - 2013-02-01 02:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Destriouth Hollow
@Tyberius Franklin
Sorry, I didnt mention the Sin and Navy Dominix as they are basicly just slightly modified Dominixes. And yes I know what Black Ops do (;
I understand your concerns about myrmidons beeing too "cheap" to have 125m but I don't think it would actually change that much.

And for the other matter: I still find it weird that the Ishtar does the same (Drone-)damage as the Rattlesnake.

@Leetha Layne
Using less or smaller drones than I possibly can is not fun to me (:
You don't even want to know how often I wanted to fit my drone-boats in fleets where they didn't belong.
DRONES!!!! (:
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#5 - 2013-02-01 02:10:06 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191595&find=unread
Changes linked there say it'll be 100mbit bandwidth with 200m^3 dronebay. Honesly I'd rather see them reduce the bandwidth and up the bonus to medium drones to make them par with 3 heavies and 2 mediums/whatever other combination is top damage. It'd get rid of the damage application issues of heavies, while not increasing the power of lights.
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#6 - 2013-02-07 05:01:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Destriouth Hollow
Currently there are only 2 Tech 2 Ships with drone specialization.
Those are the Ishkur and Ishtar. (one of which can only use small drones)
The Proteus is also not a very good droneboat, so there is also no good tech 3 droneboat.
(I'm not counting the sin as it's the worst black ops ship, far weaker than a dominix, too expensive for anything but staying away from fights and not even intended vor fighting players directly anyway)

That means:
There isnt a single long-term skill-aim for drone users. It stops at cruiser size. If you want to get bigger than that you have no tech-variants. The only highend-tech-droneboat is the ishtar.

Thats why I'd like to see the Myrmidon becoming competitive, but having an Eos or Proteus with 125m³ would work as well. (where the Eos would be nicer, as it's a BC)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2013-02-07 05:57:55 UTC
I find 100mbit/s / 200m3 for Myrmidon perfectly acceptable, with 5 turrets it has more damage output than the cruisers and adequate drone bay.

What makes the Proteus a bad drone boat in your opinion?

Sin isn't currently anywhere near the worst BLOPS, at least not in terms of dps. They all have their issues, tho.

What long-term skill-aim turret users have then? Do you count marauders for them?

As what comes to Myrmidon's competitiveness, I find it's issue only related to active armor tanking, it has comparatively excellent damage output even in it's current form, and only improves in 1.1.

I'm also confident the Eos will have at least 100mbit/s and a proper drone bay when they rebalance command ships. Looking very much forward to that and buying hulls while they are cheap :)

.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-02-07 11:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
With drone damage mods available now, 100 mbits on the Myrm is fine.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#9 - 2013-02-07 11:34:51 UTC
Geddon: 125³
Dominix: 125³
Typhoon: 125³
Megathron: 125³

The issue with drones is that they dont use up slots. So having 350 drones DPS on a bonused 125³ uses no fitting and no slots... it's a tough one to balance.

The ishtar/Gila have low EHP and their PVP tank potential is low. The dominix has large tank potential but is less agile and has a large sig. The myrm is the mid ground in terms of good slot layout, fitting, ehp, active tank and drone dps.

I'm afraid to get 125³ you'd need to sacrifice a lot - and despite you loving drones, most people like the myrm the way it is
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2013-02-07 13:56:49 UTC
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
Currently there are only 2 Tech 2 Ships with drone specialization.
Those are the Ishkur and Ishtar. (one of which can only use small drones)
The Proteus is also not a very good droneboat, so there is also no good tech 3 droneboat.
(I'm not counting the sin as it's the worst black ops ship, far weaker than a dominix, too expensive for anything but staying away from fights and not even intended vor fighting players directly anyway)


So, there are only two T2 ships that have drone bonuses that you like? What happened to the Curse, Pilgrim, and Sentinel (not that anyone remembers the Sentinel, ever)? Legion has a drone sub as well.

Destriouth Hollow wrote:
That means:
There isnt a single long-term skill-aim for drone users. It stops at cruiser size. If you want to get bigger than that you have no tech-variants. The only highend-tech-droneboat is the ishtar.

Thats why I'd like to see the Myrmidon becoming competitive, but having an Eos or Proteus with 125m³ would work as well. (where the Eos would be nicer, as it's a BC)


We'll see on the Eos. Read up on how it used to be; that thing was a ******* beast before the introduction of bandwidth. It's been a joke of a ship ever since.

As for the Proteus.... Well, drone damage amps mean it now puts out as much drone damage as an Ishtar. There was an argument to be had before their introduction that the Proteus was gimped; not so much any more. Unfortunately, an appeal to symmetry only works when it also fits with game balance. In this case, it wouldn't work so well.
Songbird
#11 - 2013-02-08 07:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Songbird
Maeltstome wrote:
Geddon: 125³
Dominix: 125³
Typhoon: 125³
Megathron: 125³


+ their navy versions + the vindi :)

There's 3 races that have drone bonused boats :
Gallente , Amarr and Guristas:

Guristas have: worm, gila, RS.
Gallente have: tristan, ishkur, algos, myrm, vexor, navy vexor , ishtar, proteus, domi, navy domi
Amarr have: dragoon, arbitrator, curse, pilgrim, legion

Of course anything frigate sized doesn't have bonus to damage, just bonus to drone bay. The T3s get the standard +50% to drone damage but not the full 125, in fact legion is a lot like curse in it's drone guise.


So if you're a sub cap drone lover those are the ships you're looking at.

Of course, every other ship, even with 5mbps drone bandwidth will benefit from it's drone(s). So don't despair - you haven't wasted your skill points
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#12 - 2013-02-08 18:35:49 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:


The ishtar/Gila have low EHP



Erm what? The Gila can fit a pretty obscene tank for a cruiser
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#13 - 2013-02-08 19:43:39 UTC
100 bandwidth is great of the myrmidon and not for damage reasons. Question

Think outside of the box and you will see the myrmidon as a new tool. Shocked

Good luck.

Also 125 bandwidth would be way too much. Lets hope to see it on a command ship.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-08 19:55:48 UTC
Myrm needs its 5 heavy/sentries back. It got hit too hard by the nerfbat back then. It needs to be rolled back. Ishtar gets 5 heavy/sentries. Nowhere else does HAC outgank its racial BC counterpart. HACs are supposed to be faster than BCs, not gankier. The new changes don't go far enough in correcting this imbalance.
Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-02-08 23:58:28 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Myrm needs its 5 heavy/sentries back. It got hit too hard by the nerfbat back then. It needs to be rolled back. Ishtar gets 5 heavy/sentries. Nowhere else does HAC outgank its racial BC counterpart. HACs are supposed to be faster than BCs, not gankier. The new changes don't go far enough in correcting this imbalance.


You are comparing the wrong things here. The Cruisers have 50 to 75 bandwidth, the Battlecruisers have 50 75 and 100, the Battleships have 50 through 125.

I know we all want the perfect ship.. the max dronebay, max damage, dealer of megadeath... Won't happen. a 100 bandwidth Myrmidon is great. I would love 125 so I could fit 5 sentries on it, but 100 is fine.

What they do need to do is redo the gallente command ships and turn one of them into a mega droneboat (so you can now get your shiny ship with drones).
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2013-02-09 00:27:29 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Myrm needs its 5 heavy/sentries back. It got hit too hard by the nerfbat back then. It needs to be rolled back. Ishtar gets 5 heavy/sentries. Nowhere else does HAC outgank its racial BC counterpart. HACs are supposed to be faster than BCs, not gankier. The new changes don't go far enough in correcting this imbalance.


Ishtar does not outgank the Myrmidon. In fact not many ships outgank the Myrm.

.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#17 - 2013-02-09 08:26:10 UTC
Roime wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Myrm needs its 5 heavy/sentries back. It got hit too hard by the nerfbat back then. It needs to be rolled back. Ishtar gets 5 heavy/sentries. Nowhere else does HAC outgank its racial BC counterpart. HACs are supposed to be faster than BCs, not gankier. The new changes don't go far enough in correcting this imbalance.


Ishtar does not outgank the Myrmidon. In fact not many ships outgank the Myrm.



Ishtar specializes in drones, whereas the Myrm also has a tanking bonus (resists are stronger on T2, but not bonused). Standard T2 approach here.
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#18 - 2013-02-09 13:55:08 UTC
Sadly for Sentry-PvP your only real choices are the Dominix, Gila and Ishtar
There 2 two tiny ships and one big fat slowcow.
I just miss something in the middle (:

There is no real usefull shiny slowcow either btw (: