These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Transport ships / align times

Author
Stella Toralen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-08 15:41:31 UTC
Hi,

Relatively new to the game. Been training the skills for a blockade runner as I'd like to add some excitement to trade runs by visiting lowsec.

Reading around, most recommended fits seem to really minimize align times to get into warp as quickly as possible, BUT all include either a MWD or afterburner. If these modules increase the mass of the ship, won't they also increase the align time? Or maybe that's true but the usefulness of being able to escape if caught outweighs that drawback.

Thanks in advance for advice!
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#2 - 2013-02-08 16:10:57 UTC
Welcome to the game Stella,

Having a prop module (MWD, MJD and/or AB) is a bit of habit with most pilots. Almost all ships, well over 90%, have a prop module so that sort of thinking just trickles down to other hulls that might not necessarily need them. For blockade runners you never use the prop mod when going from gate to gate. With deep space transports you might actually use one (look up "MWD cloak trick").

The times that a blockade runner needs a prop mod is when landing on a station for dock and there might be a few thousand meters away from docking range. Some station models in game have weird 'hitboxes' around them so this does happen. It is extremely bad when a sniping Tornado just happens to be there. In this situation you can try to uncloak and dock with AB or MWD (if you are feeling ballsy about the sig bloom). If you have the proper docking bookmarks set up, you will not need a prop mod while operating in lowsec.

Still, pilots like options...and that is exactly what a MWD is. On the random chance you do get tackled by a ship that only has an AB, then the MWD will allow you to escape. I personally think this chance is extremely low in occurrence but I am sure it has happened before.

Most blockade runners are fitted with Nanos and/or iStabs (even warp stabs). Your cloak is your defense, so most don't really bother with it since a large weapon fitting BC can alpha kill you in one shot regardless of defense mods.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka

Stella Toralen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-08 16:39:21 UTC
Thanks for the reply Karash.

Hadn't considered the issue about landing at a station outside of docking range. I guess it's best to pick a few systems that you know well and bookmark them properly! Hopefully that's at least one expensive mistake avoided!
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-02-08 16:43:23 UTC
the best way to get through a gate camp is still to cloak....

No Worries

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-08 16:59:04 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
For blockade runners you never use the prop mod when going from gate to gate.


Never say never.

In 0.0 in a bubble. Hit align cloak MWD. You will cloak and get one cycle off of the MWD, greatly reducing the chance that someone will burn in and decloak you

In LS, jumping through a gate and landing too close to another ship object to cloak. Same method can get you out of range hopefully fast enough to cloak and get away.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#6 - 2013-02-08 17:16:53 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
For blockade runners you never use the prop mod when going from gate to gate.


Never say never.

In 0.0 in a bubble. Hit align cloak MWD. You will cloak and get one cycle off of the MWD, greatly reducing the chance that someone will burn in and decloak you

In LS, jumping through a gate and landing too close to another ship object to cloak. Same method can get you out of range hopefully fast enough to cloak and get away.



1. Question was about Lowsec, not Null. I think it is pretty obvious even for new people that a MWD or at the very least an AB is required operating in Null due to bubbles.

2. Jumping into a new system in Lowsec and actually being within 2km of potentially hostile ship is such a rare event it's not even worth mentioning since any gate camp you run into will not be 15km from the gate. Lowsec gate camps are on top of the gate so they have the option of using the gate if a large roam comes in (you would be surprised how many 'pirate' gate camps have no scouts around). Any sniper camp will not be 15km from gate either for obvious reasons. Even then you have a full 60 seconds of immunity cloak to assess the situation.

I think statistically speaking you are correct that the word "Never" should have not been used, but in all my time of using BR Transports I can't think of the last time a prop mod saved me from ship destruction. The only time it would be used is during the inevitable "Welp" move and you miss your cloak or some external factor makes you commit a serious mistake...which happens.

Never say never. Sure. This axiom can be applied to many things...such as a rookie ship killing a battle cruiser, doesn't mean it's terribly useful.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-08 17:25:58 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
For blockade runners you never use the prop mod when going from gate to gate.


Never say never.

In 0.0 in a bubble. Hit align cloak MWD. You will cloak and get one cycle off of the MWD, greatly reducing the chance that someone will burn in and decloak you

In LS, jumping through a gate and landing too close to another ship object to cloak. Same method can get you out of range hopefully fast enough to cloak and get away.



1. Question was about Lowsec, not Null. I think it is pretty obvious even for new people that a MWD or at the very least an AB is required operating in Null due to bubbles.

2. Jumping into a new system in Lowsec and actually being within 2km of potentially hostile ship is such a rare event it's not even worth mentioning since any gate camp you run into will not be 15km from the gate. Lowsec gate camps are on top of the gate so they have the option of using the gate if a large roam comes in (you would be surprised how many 'pirate' gate camps have no scouts around). Any sniper camp will not be 15km from gate either for obvious reasons. Even then you have a full 60 seconds of immunity cloak to assess the situation.

I think statistically speaking you are correct that the word "Never" should have not been used, but in all my time of using BR Transports I can't think of the last time a prop mod saved me from ship destruction. The only time it would be used is during the inevitable "Welp" move and you miss your cloak or some external factor makes you commit a serious mistake...which happens.

Never say never. Sure. This axiom can be applied to many things...such as a rookie ship killing a battle cruiser, doesn't mean it's terribly useful.


While rare, it can and does happen. I've had it happen before. Heck now with BR cargo's being unscannable I've had it happen on HS gates, where i landed right next to a concord ship. I treat these the same way as I have been targeted under these conditions as well.

I've had several times, most often when running the Aridia pipe, where the locals have put a crapton of decloaking items around the gate.

Either way, even if rare, it seemed good to point out that you can still use the same kind of procedure as the MWD cloak trick to get you out of a bind even with a blockade runner. I for one, never knew at first that you could hit cloak and then MWD quickly and both cloak and get one MWD cycle off safely.
Stella Toralen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-02-08 17:37:18 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Heck now with BR cargo's being unscannable I've had it happen on HS gates, where i landed right next to a concord ship. I treat these the same way as I have been targeted under these conditions as well.


Interesting that the cargo isn't scanable. At work the security guys always say that the best anti-theft device for a car is to make sure that you clearly display there's nothing of value in it and that it will be difficult to steal (i.e. steering lock). What's true IRL is also true in EVE :)
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#9 - 2013-02-08 17:38:20 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:


While rare, it can and does happen. I've had it happen before. Heck now with BR cargo's being unscannable I've had it happen on HS gates, where i landed right next to a concord ship. I treat these the same way as I have been targeted under these conditions as well.

I've had several times, most often when running the Aridia pipe, where the locals have put a crapton of decloaking items around the gate.

Either way, even if rare, it seemed good to point out that you can still use the same kind of procedure as the MWD cloak trick to get you out of a bind even with a blockade runner. I for one, never knew at first that you could hit cloak and then MWD quickly and both cloak and get one MWD cycle off safely.


You know, that is a good point about Highsec, I have not thought about that much since the changes but I do cloak GtG in Hisec as well. Most likely this would only occur if CONCORD had spawned in that general area recently before your arrival. Also good point about decloaking items...but too many can lead to GM interference. I assume you see this in Hier in your Aridia travels.

One thing that needs to be pointed out about Mass to the OP however is this: Your ship will not increase in mass until the module is activated (both AB and MWD I believe), so it sitting there equipped but not active will not affect your align time. Forgot to mention that before.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-02-08 17:52:20 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:


While rare, it can and does happen. I've had it happen before. Heck now with BR cargo's being unscannable I've had it happen on HS gates, where i landed right next to a concord ship. I treat these the same way as I have been targeted under these conditions as well.

I've had several times, most often when running the Aridia pipe, where the locals have put a crapton of decloaking items around the gate.

Either way, even if rare, it seemed good to point out that you can still use the same kind of procedure as the MWD cloak trick to get you out of a bind even with a blockade runner. I for one, never knew at first that you could hit cloak and then MWD quickly and both cloak and get one MWD cycle off safely.


You know, that is a good point about Highsec, I have not thought about that much since the changes but I do cloak GtG in Hisec as well. Most likely this would only occur if CONCORD had spawned in that general area recently before your arrival. Also good point about decloaking items...but too many can lead to GM interference. I assume you see this in Hier in your Aridia travels.

One thing that needs to be pointed out about Mass to the OP however is this: Your ship will not increase in mass until the module is activated (both AB and MWD I believe), so it sitting there equipped but not active will not affect your align time. Forgot to mention that before.


It may have been Hier or Sadana. It has been a long time since I ran that pipe.

Yea my recent loot run I flew fine through FW lowsec, passing through Tama without incident, only to land next to concord like 2 jumps out from Jita. Got targeted as I warped away, since I wasn't able to cloak (caught me off guard). I was just waiting for the explosion but luckily it didnt happen (Had 3bil of sleeper loot in cargo at the time).
Stella Toralen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-02-08 17:58:52 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
One thing that needs to be pointed out about Mass to the OP however is this: Your ship will not increase in mass until the module is activated (both AB and MWD I believe), so it sitting there equipped but not active will not affect your align time. Forgot to mention that before.


Was using an (online) fitting tool - so maybe I went wrong because it assumes all the modules are active when calculating things like align time?
Shadowschild
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-02-08 18:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowschild
Stella Toralen wrote:
Hi,

Relatively new to the game. Been training the skills for a blockade runner as I'd like to add some excitement to trade runs by visiting lowsec.

Reading around, most recommended fits seem to really minimize align times to get into warp as quickly as possible, BUT all include either a MWD or afterburner. If these modules increase the mass of the ship, won't they also increase the align time? Or maybe that's true but the usefulness of being able to escape if caught outweighs that drawback.

Thanks in advance for advice!



The align time is not your biggest concern, it's hitting F1 for the cloak in time. Also you better hope someone isn't sitting with 2400m of where you uncloak from the gate. There are no bubbles in low sec & you can;t dock at stations in player controlled sov.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#13 - 2013-02-08 18:49:46 UTC
Stella Toralen wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
One thing that needs to be pointed out about Mass to the OP however is this: Your ship will not increase in mass until the module is activated (both AB and MWD I believe), so it sitting there equipped but not active will not affect your align time. Forgot to mention that before.


Was using an (online) fitting tool - so maybe I went wrong because it assumes all the modules are active when calculating things like align time?


A lot of tools, both local and online, have settings set the module to an "off" state. Most people do this to see how much capacitor savings having a module running and not running will be...but modules often affect more than just capacitor. If I remember correctly mass is applied when a prop module is active only, but this is just from memory. Someone can come in and correct me if I am wrong.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka

Mia Restolo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-02-08 19:43:38 UTC
Yes, the mass change from prop mods is only when active. It forces ships that are flying faster than normal due to a MWD or AB to make wider turns rather than turning on a dime at high speed.