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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

First post First post
Author
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#441 - 2013-02-08 11:57:30 UTC
Katarina Reid wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Just to clarify one valid question.


  • Even if the prerequisites change, you can still fly the ship as long as you had the main skill before the overhaul. This is not in question here.
  • However, if the prerequisites change, you cannot train the skill until the new prerequisites are met.

  • Ex:

  • You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence, but not train Amarr Freighter past 1 until you have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 trained.

  • We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.


I dont want to have to retrain new prerequisites just to increase my ship level of something i have already trained.


Well just wait and see, you may not have to. They're still deciding on that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Bubbleboylol
Militia Federation
#442 - 2013-02-08 12:04:04 UTC
Deliora May wrote:
Bubbleboylol wrote:
I know most of you have been here longer then me, but do these changes not worry you at all? I have played almost every MMO out there and this is the only one that me and my friends have stuck with through the years. Eve is slowly shifting to accommodate a different player base then there core players. I say that because if you look at the shift in popular games as World of Warcraft or age of conan both i have played for a long time, they made it so easy to do anything that it's not worth the wait or time to even play anymore. They have pushed out there core players be
cause it got overrun by the ( i want it now players ) and are now trying to make and keep them happy, that play get everything they want and then get bored and move on. i see this happening to EVE slowly and it is sad because working and building anticipation to own and or use a ship and know that anyone else has to put in same time or more time and effort to get the same or better. The whole reason the market is as successful as it is in EVE is due to the fact that it takes months to skill train a ship. Don't forget why there is all these ( stupid repeditive tedious ) little things you have to do is what keeps you ahead of other players and sets each player apart from each other and creates competition between others as most people get lazy, so if the game caters to that then people will get bored because the game will then be to easy and they will ask for ( more ) (new) etc and so on and never be happy. The point is no one will ever be happy so you have to decide when it is just pure laziness or if it really is a problem. ( most the time though it is just laziness ) I am not saying all the changes are bad but some are just way to easy... Mix it up add new skills etc do not take them away from any ship if anything add more. The realism of space and the depth of the skills that go into EVE is what is so intriguing to anyone that starts or is still playing EVE, Do you see pilots flying in real life 747 jets without first learning everything about most every plane including prop planes and small jets before they can even touch a 747? That is my point. I understand it is a game but how many space games offer the realism that EVE offers>?? We like the game hard to play as that is what keeps you and I coming back. If i want an easy game ill go download an app on the ipod or play COD etc. We have many options to play easy games. The people whining about how long it takes is just the type that ( want it now ) and have no patience. I know i would not keep playing if i could just get everything as easy as in WOW or other games the like. As that is why i do not play them anymore and why they have to keep screwing up other games so much because they did not know that they pushed there main player base out.

Good day fellow pilots! Be heard don't let them cater to the LAziessss!


Well I don't think training is going to be severely shorter. The requirements just make more sense now and I appreciate the way they change them - even if I trained myself to fly certain ships that I barely touch for another *grumble grumble* (dictor and HIC I am looking at you!).
The question that is on my mind is the one regarding freighters. I thought they were fine the way they were. Training Advanced Spaceship Command 5 for them ... well I won't say I can't see the reasoning behind it but it is still a serious pain in the arse. So far the freighter was expensive (it still is) but a relatively easy to access ship for pilots that had to move large amounts of items / ore through the universe. And it also made sense to train for it since you needed the industrial skill on 5 for the transports as well as the freighter. Thus my question: Is the change really necessary?




Well IMHO The skill sets as they are, are well thought out, as they did include ( learn how to fly this before this ) and some ships may require that you have to learn lvl 5 of another skill to operate said freighter as it has some of the same on board uses as other transport ships etc. If you skip the as it's called step ships i think then it will only serve SOLELY to bring in new players and cater to them. I am not against new players at all but if they want to play this game then they need to take on the responsibility and the patience it takes to be a capsuleer in EVE. Or we can like i saw in another post just disregard the prereq all together and just do what all other MMO's do now.

Asking to have more then one ( Option From CCP is like asking a chicken to cook it-self. )

FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#443 - 2013-02-08 12:07:10 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
I dont like these changes as well. But this is not a discussion thread, it's Q&A thread. Unlike Fozzie, who post in F&I forum to actually see the feedback. Here, the decision in made - just deal with it.

First post:
CCP Gargant wrote:
We would love to hear your feedback and comments on the coming changes in this thread.

If you say so Sinzor.
Aurora RedNova
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#444 - 2013-02-08 12:18:15 UTC
It is REALLY about time for revamping industrials. I mean Tech2 haulers with max skills and even tech2 Rigs like a Bustard a slow like hell but can´t even haul a battleship.
And plz why amarr and minmatar have superb ship models for their Tech2 haulers but caldari and galente not???

*Praying to big CCP god*
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
Desman Alliance
#445 - 2013-02-08 12:18:23 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
It's not stupid, it's actually part of the Tiericide initiative. A tech1 ship shouldn't require the corresponding skill at 5 to fly. There also shouldn't be such thing as "the best tech1 industrial".

While getting new players in remains a noble side-goal, the main reason this is being done is to give each and every single ship with a proper role, not to leave them as crappy transition steps. Transition steps don't work in sandbox MMOs.

1) What was the goal of "III->III" system?
2) Unless you set Freighter V as prereq. for Jump Freighters, I reserve my right to call that changes stupid, regardless of streamlining, tiercide and other fancy words.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#446 - 2013-02-08 12:18:46 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Flying Apocalypse wrote:
Regarding the part of
Carriers and Supercarriers:

Racial Carrier requirements on the Archon, Wyvern, Nyx and Hel have been reduced from 3 to 1
Capital Ships requirement on all Carriers and Supercarriers increased from 3 to 4
All racial Battleship requirements on Carriers and Supercarriers reduced from 5 to 3
Adding the Jump Fuel Conservation skill at 4 as prerequisite
Adding the Jump Drive Calibration skill at 3 as prerequisite (which itself requires the Jump Drive Operation skill trained at 5)

(And it's fancy archon picture with training times)

Will carriers be changed to have all those jump drive skills neccesary as well? Or just supercarriers? Because I feel that normal carriers don't require all those extra jump drive skills, while they do feel kinda, needed, for supercarriers. Seeing how dreads don't require them either.


Changes affect both Carriers and Supercarriers (not suppercarrier as I previously wrote it Lol) equally.



Remember to eat, and you'll avoid this problem.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#447 - 2013-02-08 12:25:04 UTC
Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.


Hope that's clear - trying my very best Sad
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#448 - 2013-02-08 12:29:13 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.


Hope that's clear - trying my very best Sad

I love you.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2013-02-08 12:29:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Beckie DeLey
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.


Hope that's clear - trying my very best Sad


In before you get flamed for dumbing the game down :D



By the way, the tiericide will hit the Industrial ships before this change to skill requirements goes down, right? I am really looking forward to what you guys do with the different T1 haulers to give them seperate roles.

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.

Villani Capelli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2013-02-08 12:33:05 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.


Hope that's clear - trying my very best Sad


You are the best dev. Big smile
Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#451 - 2013-02-08 12:38:55 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

As I neared the last page of the threadnaught (yes I read the whole thing) I was wondering if there would be something really good at the end. There was Big smile and thank you Ytterbium for getting that to us pretty darn quick. Of course this opens up a whole new round of minmax scenarios but the thread is already too cluttered so I won't go there right now. EVEMon skillplan day here I come.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#452 - 2013-02-08 12:45:55 UTC
Good day,

with everything else on my mind being stated already, I would like to point your attention to the prereq of Industry V for Mining Barges.

If I'd ever decide to skill for them in order to mine, does not mean I would also like to get into production. E.g. I'd rather be able to refine my own stuff and hence in my view a prereq of Refining 5 would fit better into that list then Industry will ever be.

I would even go as far as also removing the skill Industry 1 as prereq for Refining as an added bonus to the new specialization initiative.

Alternatively I'd even rather train spaceship command to 5 or something in that vein, than being forced to skill something I would not ever need to fly that ship effectively.


Thanks for your advertency.


Savira Terrant

.

Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Initiative Mercenaries
#453 - 2013-02-08 12:46:14 UTC
The changes look very good .. some tweaks may have to be done but over all it looks very promising.
Good work.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#454 - 2013-02-08 12:47:40 UTC
Not that I'm complaining, if I understand right, BUT:

If I Can fly the Nighthawk comand ship but not the vulture, due to their tetiary skills.

after the change those skill are removed, I can fly both because I have Caldari Battlecruiser 5 and Comand Ships 1 (being the primary and secondary skill requirement)

although I dont have all the warfare skills.

In wich case I'm actualy allowed to fly a 4 ships I wasn't able to fly beore the change.

Corect?
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#455 - 2013-02-08 12:51:49 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.


Hope that's clear - trying my very best Sad



Good news, everything else would have been really stupid
James1122
Perimeter Trade and Distribution Inc
#456 - 2013-02-08 12:52:33 UTC
James1122 wrote:
Hi,

The changes, after reading through the whole blog and the first 2/3 pages of dev posts, seem really good and well thought through.

My only question is, as I'm about to receive a bump of 6mil sp which will push me up a clone grade, is any thing going to be done about clone costs and the restriction/disincentive they impose onto active pvp ?

Please can i have a proper reply about this as i feel this is a real issue that penalizes older players.


Please can I get a Dev comment on this?
(even if its just a its something we are looking into / keeping and eye on/ we have no plans for this at the current time)

....

Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#457 - 2013-02-08 12:56:59 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
CCP Gargant wrote:
Almost one year ago, CCP Ytterbium announced plans to split the Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills into racial equivalents for each of the factions. This change will go through in the expansion planned for this summer and Ytterbium has penned all of the details into one dev blog.

You can read it all here.

Please remember that if you can fly it before the split, you can fly it after. This applies to all of the listed changes. We would love to hear your feedback and comments on the coming changes in this thread.



Ok i see some hole in case of skill reimbursement.
This char:
I fly electronic attack ships, and use them ... but i dont have Long Range Targeting LvL 5 - other skills where more important.
So if i fly this now - will i get Long Range Targeting LvL 5 ?


No , you wont. You will still be able to fly the ship but not train the ship skill. Best to train it to V now and you wont have any issues.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#458 - 2013-02-08 12:58:09 UTC
James1122 wrote:
James1122 wrote:
Hi,

The changes, after reading through the whole blog and the first 2/3 pages of dev posts, seem really good and well thought through.

My only question is, as I'm about to receive a bump of 6mil sp which will push me up a clone grade, is any thing going to be done about clone costs and the restriction/disincentive they impose onto active pvp ?

Please can i have a proper reply about this as i feel this is a real issue that penalizes older players.


Please can I get a Dev comment on this?
(even if its just a its something we are looking into / keeping and eye on/ we have no plans for this at the current time)


Clone costs in their current form are not something we as a design department are happy with. Beyond that we can't make commitments on the issue at this time.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Pinky Denmark
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#459 - 2013-02-08 12:59:51 UTC
James1122 wrote:
Please can I get a Dev comment on this?
(even if its just a its something we are looking into / keeping and eye on/ we have no plans for this at the current time)


It was written (by a dev) that you would have to check and upgrade your clone accordingly at your own cost. Try search for it...
Drosal Inkunen
Schwarzs-Children
#460 - 2013-02-08 13:08:38 UTC
Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:
Can we give some free SP to people who read the whole devblog or at least one or two comments before posting?

The level of RTFDB (read the dev blog) fail in this comment thread is epic.

I know what you mean. Though, even if they did decide they would actually do this, how would they know who read it first? ;)
Actually, I think it would be hilarious if they give everyone who evidently read it 1 skill point. XD