These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Myriad decloak items: What is ok, and what is not? We got unfairly CCPd last nite!!
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2013-02-07 10:33:10 UTC
Some time ago I got caught in a clever little bubble and killed. The owner of the bubble had left hundreds of tech-1 drones there to decloak the likes of me. Thinking this was a bad thing I petitioned. The response was, at least after the 'tough ****' bit, that many items dropped iike that were not an exploit or likely to upset the GMs unless they were intended to cause lag or were numerous enough to cause lag.

I cried a little and then got on with things.

Two nights ago we were camping IPAY-2 and got sick of those nulli-T3s sliding on by. So we orbited the gate at 10 - 15km and dropped jet-cans. We had a pretty nice little sphere-of-doom around the gate when a T3 scout came thru ... and got away. He did not, however, bring his main guy in behind ... and I now assume he did also petition our camp.

Soon afterwards a neut appears in local, having managed to avoid the eyes of our scouts. We wonder where he came from then noticed that his name began with 'GM'. 15 seconds later he disappeared ... along with all our hard-placed decloaking cans.

Our setup was not causing lag, and was certainly not intended to cause lag, so now I am mightily confused about when decloak cans are ok, when not, how many etc? On the one hand my death due to hundred of decloak drones was ok, but on the other my threatening others with a decloak sphere on a gate is not. I'm gonna start feeling victimised here soon.
Is this just a random thing depending on the whim or mood of the particular GM at that time, or is there some more concrete guidance material we can work from?

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#2 - 2013-02-07 10:42:36 UTC
Often a few well places cans on bubbles ect tend to do the trick.

If you want to see if it causes lag and might be petitionable. Jump to the other side of the gate and jump into your 'camp' if it screws the hell out of your client you may want to lay back abit on the amount of cans you have.

 ♥ 
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-07 11:17:58 UTC
I was under the impression drones no longer decloak, there is also a set max number of cans you are allowed to deploy. If a mod removes yours it is safe to assume you had to many.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-07 12:01:44 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
I was under the impression drones no longer decloak, there is also a set max number of cans you are allowed to deploy. If a mod removes yours it is safe to assume you had to many.


Drones do decloak AFAIK. We use them in our camps sometimes.

Dropping a lot of cans is petitionable I think, but you can drop a few. More often than not, a couple of them per bubble will do the trick if you know where to place them.
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#5 - 2013-02-07 14:58:04 UTC
So your complaining that GM took your can spam with it? Thats been known for years that your not allowed to spam containers to form a decloak minefield....

You are allowed to use active drones, bubles, few well placed can in buble, etc...

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#6 - 2013-02-07 15:33:24 UTC
Corpse decloakers, best decloakers.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-02-07 17:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
ok so, so far we have people pretty well repeating what i already said ... and throwing in some patently incorrect stuff.

Someone said there is a set number, but no reference or anything to back that claim up. Is there a st number ... I very much doubt this is true? If so what is it? where's it mentioned / posted?

Yes *everyone* uses decloak items ... jet cans, anchored cans, drones, corpses, even ships ... but when is enough too many??
Does anyone actually know the answer to this?

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Rock Bitter
Bitter Bitter
#8 - 2013-02-07 20:11:34 UTC
The Issue is not the number of Cans / Drones / Etc.

The issue is the GM's do not apply the rule consistent. When you have two different GM they can and do say the exact opposite on the exact same issue. Until the GM's apply the rules fair and consistant in the gray areas you will alway get different answers.

Life in the sand box is not fair, its a fact of life in eve.
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#9 - 2013-02-07 20:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Casidy
In our experience it seems to be determined by which gm gets the call and what mood he's in, which is annoying as hell but seems to be pretty much the rule. We've had no issiue running camps with 50+drones floating around and then gotten written warnings for leaving 20 lying around.

.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-02-07 20:48:30 UTC
Thanks guys. Much as I suspected ... but did want to check whether there was something useful out there as guidance.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Ginger Barbarella
#11 - 2013-02-07 21:05:52 UTC
Fickle are the moods of women, gods, and GMs.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#12 - 2013-02-07 22:53:14 UTC
PROTIP: use corpses for decloaking. almost no one has biomass added to overview,they dont have brackets, they dont pop after an hour, and are excellent decloakers. plus you can usually scoop your fill at many major hubs or gatecamped systems.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-02-07 22:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
**everyone** has overview set to see biomass where we live. Leave a corpse in space and within 15-minutes it'll be picked up.
Corpses have their place (not a huge one) but when you have a gang setting up a decloak-sphere on a gate it's much easier to use jet-cans and live with the 3-minute delay and 2 hour lifespan. To do that you need several hundred decloak items ... not just the dozen or so people pop at a warp-in spot in a bubble.

ofc a decloak sphere on a hostile jump bridge requires a lot less, but it's the same basic concept.

corpses also useful for gridfu work but, again, not always the best. Probes are much better because they cannot be warped to or bookmarked ... so no bastard tackles you while you're setting up.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#14 - 2013-02-07 23:58:41 UTC
It seems I should petition all the POSs I see in w-space with, no lie, 300 mining drone I's spewed out through their decloak bubbles. Except, I've done it before, and got no response from anyone. Guess I wasn't the right kind of whiny nullbear and didn't put "Q.Q" after every one of my self-indulgent poorly grammatically constructed bleatings.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-02-08 00:50:55 UTC
I think the "too many decloaking items causes lag" argument is bullshit. If we can have massive fleet battles with thousands of ships all at once, I'm sure the server can deal with a few hundred drones or ships floating around.

It's interesting to see the cov-ops pilots cry foul over mass-decloaking, while the null-bears call for cloak nerfs and more anti-cloaking defenses.

In my opinion, the system as it is works brilliantly, and does what it is intended to do: Defenders have a hard time catching cloaked ships without supreme amounts of effort, and well-piloted cloakies can severely disrupt a defender's space.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#16 - 2013-02-08 01:00:25 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I think the "too many decloaking items causes lag" argument is bullshit. If we can have massive fleet battles with thousands of ships all at once, I'm sure the server can deal with a few hundred drones or ships floating around.

It's interesting to see the cov-ops pilots cry foul over mass-decloaking, while the null-bears call for cloak nerfs and more anti-cloaking defenses.

In my opinion, the system as it is works brilliantly, and does what it is intended to do: Defenders have a hard time catching cloaked ships without supreme amounts of effort, and well-piloted cloakies can severely disrupt a defender's space.

The difference here is that when you do it in some random-ass camp, you're doing it on an older sol node that's probably hosting 15, 20 different systems; these big fleet battles happen on dedicated prototype blades with really fancy hardware that are many times more powerful.

For example, the Asakai fight. That happened on a random node and was not reinforced in any way, and it was a nightmare even with max TiDi. With no TiDi (as it will be when someone jumps into a quiet system where you're camping) there could potentially be enough of a delay involved to significantly hurt their chances for survival purely based on the load time of their grid.

If you don't want to get in trouble, use discretion. If you think it might cause a problem, don't put down that many.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
TotalRapeage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-02-08 01:32:05 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Some time ago I got caught in a clever little bubble and killed. The owner of the bubble had left hundreds of tech-1 drones there to decloak the likes of me. Thinking this was a bad thing I petitioned. The response was, at least after the 'tough ****' bit, that many items dropped iike that were not an exploit or likely to upset the GMs unless they were intended to cause lag or were numerous enough to cause lag.

I cried a little and then got on with things.

Two nights ago we were camping IPAY-2 and got sick of those nulli-T3s sliding on by. So we orbited the gate at 10 - 15km and dropped jet-cans. We had a pretty nice little sphere-of-doom around the gate when a T3 scout came thru ... and got away. He did not, however, bring his main guy in behind ... and I now assume he did also petition our camp.

Soon afterwards a neut appears in local, having managed to avoid the eyes of our scouts. We wonder where he came from then noticed that his name began with 'GM'. 15 seconds later he disappeared ... along with all our hard-placed decloaking cans.

Our setup was not causing lag, and was certainly not intended to cause lag, so now I am mightily confused about when decloak cans are ok, when not, how many etc? On the one hand my death due to hundred of decloak drones was ok, but on the other my threatening others with a decloak sphere on a gate is not. I'm gonna start feeling victimised here soon.
Is this just a random thing depending on the whim or mood of the particular GM at that time, or is there some more concrete guidance material we can work from?



I'ts not who you know, but rather who you blow.. I have seen the server do an emergency reboot during titan kills before......


true story bro
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-02-08 07:18:28 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
It seems I should petition all the POSs I see in w-space with ....


Absolutely. I didn't want to mention that little aspect of it all. My w-space POSes are almost self ****-caged with squillions of cans up near the forcefield where hapless investigators end up. Never got a complaint or, AFAIK, a petition ... just a few GF mails addressed to the POS.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#19 - 2013-02-08 07:56:34 UTC
I think the key is to be reasonable with how many jetcans and drones you litter about .

Some well placed ones at particular vectors or key spots at a bubble will probably be ignored by the GMs... a whole clusterfuck of them in every direction will draw a GMs ire.

How did you Veterans start?
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2013-02-08 10:59:16 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Some well placed ones at particular vectors or key spots at a bubble will probably be ignored by the GMs... a whole clusterfuck of them in every direction will draw a GMs ire.


es, I guess so .... if that's the type of bubble you're setting up.But we're setup to catch nulli-cloaky-T3s who jump thru the gate. If you divide the surface area of a 12 - 15km radius sphere into 2 - 2.5km separated points you will see that you need a whole lot more than a few strategically placed cans.

It's not the usual fare we're chasing, not ppl tard-warping directly into our bubble from another gate. We were working on reducing the advantage of those cloaky-nulli-T3s by at least increasng their uncloak period longenough to get lock-point. To do that on a gate you need a lot of decloak items ... and a lot less when it's an enemy jump bridge.

Anyways, it's no real drama. I just wanted to find out whether anyone was aware of any consistent CCP policy on this. It seems pretty much as we'd suspected ... whim of the GM-of-the-moment.

Thanks all.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
12Next page