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Themepark Eve
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Mr Pragmatic
#1 - 2013-02-07 18:58:49 UTC
Most people know the difference between a theme park and a sandbox. A few things to discuss.

1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?

2)How would eve be able to accomplish a theme park style of play?

3)If the theme park element was extremely difficult, would it be acceptable to bitter vets?

4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a
way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.

5)For be a social game there is not a whole lot of socializing, or getting together in fleets.

6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that
attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.

I don't believe Eve is dying, its in a form of slow growth. However if one plays other games, you realize
that eve is lacking in some things.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#2 - 2013-02-07 19:00:19 UTC
After reading this, i got vomit all over my keyboard and in my lap.

The Tears Must Flow
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3 - 2013-02-07 19:09:04 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
would it be acceptable to bitter vets?


By definition, nothing is acceptable to them. Why please bitter people?

Mr Pragmatic wrote:
4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a
way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.


WoW. Its that way ------->

Mr Pragmatic wrote:
6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that
attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.


No. Why even skill up a toon then? Oh thats right, you should partially be able to gain SP by afk mining or running around a forest killing boars with your +3 axemace of.... just no. Also, your hatred of the flavor Vanilla disturbs me.

Mr Pragmatic wrote:
I don't believe Eve is dying,


I don't believe you.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#4 - 2013-02-07 19:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
Most people know the difference between a theme park and a sandbox. A few things to discuss.

1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?

2)How would eve be able to accomplish a theme park style of play?


Theme parks are incredibly labor intensive treadmills, because their content is inevitably consumed faster than it can be produced. CCP is a small company. The effort they would have to dedicate to developing a theme park, and the neglect they would have to demonstrate toward the existing game, would make Incarna look like Apocrypha.

There are other games that do theme parks very well.

Mr Pragmatic wrote:
4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a
way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.

5)For be a social game there is not a whole lot of socializing, or getting together in fleets.

6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that
attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.

I don't believe Eve is dying, its in a form of slow growth. However if one plays other games, you realize
that eve is lacking in some things.


4) Generally, the reward for constant playing is ISK--if you're smart about it. Also, there are the implicit rewards of, you know, having fun playing a game.

5) This problem seems to be more particular to you. I spend a fair amount of my time online in fleets.

6) So you'd take off-grid boosting to new heights just as CCP is trying to get rid of it altogether? Mining corps will have boosting Orcas and Rorquals. PVP corps will have boosting command ships and T3s. This is nicely modular, and relatively well contained.

Design is about compromises. No game is good at everything. EVE is very good at being a PVP sandbox game. Anything it does to enrich that aspect of its gameplay helps (and yes, harvesting and industry enrich it greatly). Anything it does to dilute that is simply a waste of effort. The dedicated theme park MMOs do theme parks far better than CCP ever will.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-02-07 19:20:11 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
Most people know the difference between a theme park and a sandbox. A few things to discuss.

1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?


I do not see why the universe can not be split into different regions with different sets of rules. Sure, EVE may have some balance issues right now. I wouldn't mind seeing some rebalance. Make the rocks in low sec yield 2x the mins of high, and null yield 2x low... for example. Make rats in high sec pay half low/null rats. Stuff like that.

Exploration sites, PI, and many other things have this drastic scale of reward to them, so I see no reason mining and ratting should not as well.

But I see no reason that a game can't have both a "mostly safe" and a "kill anything you want to" areas.




Mr Pragmatic wrote:

4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a
way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.


No need. There are other things than SP that a hyper-player gets, like getting good at the game, more ISK to buy more pretty things, more interactions and opportunities to meet more people.

One of the things I love about EVE is that it is not about grinding EXP all the time at low level. If I want to just hang out with friends, mining, or run build them some rigs for below market, or haul a freighter load of stuff for them, I can, without worrying about how many SP I won't be getting while off doing these mundane chores.



Mr Pragmatic wrote:

5)For be a social game there is not a whole lot of socializing, or getting together in fleets.


I'm going to assume you mean a PVP fleet where you expect to be trading ammo with other ships in a destructive way. PLENTY of socializing goes on in my PVE/mining fleets.

In PVP corps, socializing is for off-duty time.


Mr Pragmatic wrote:

6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that
attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.


There are different types of corps, decided by the players that create and run the corps.


EVE is lacking for those that are used to the Call Of Duty/Halo type games where you master it in a day and get the ubberest equipment in a week. EVE is a lifestyle game, where you dedicate months to learning how to play it, and years getting the skills and equipment.

Another thing I really like about the game, thank you.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2013-02-07 19:20:12 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
Most people know the difference between a theme park and a sandbox. A few things to discuss.

1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?

2)How would eve be able to accomplish a theme park style of play?

3)If the theme park element was extremely difficult, would it be acceptable to bitter vets?

4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a
way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.

5)For be a social game there is not a whole lot of socializing, or getting together in fleets.

6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that
attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.

I don't believe Eve is dying, its in a form of slow growth. However if one plays other games, you realize
that eve is lacking in some things.



1) No, they are 2 totally different things. A theme park (in my opinion) is a place where everyone goes to have a pre-determined experience. And sand-box is a place you go to create your own experience.

2) I hope it never does, it will be my last day in this game that I love.

3) No. Its not about difficulty, its about being able to create your own game experience.

4) The skill system is fine. If you implemented some type of system that gave you skills for NPC kills, pvp would start to dwindle as everyone tried to grind NPC's (worse than they grind them for ISK now) You are supposed to ue your time in eve to have fun or to make ISK to get more stuff to have more fun. It is designed so you DONT HAVE TO grind SP.

5) You must hide under a rock. There are two forums sections dedicated to it and my fleet finder window is ALWAYS full of fleets. Maybe you need to get into a more active corp or alliance. I spend 90% of my in-game time in a fleet with corp mates or alliance mates.

6) Wtf are you talking about dude? People have been doing this since day 1. There are corps out there dedicated to just pve and some dedicated to just mining and some just for pvp. There are also some that do it all.


After reading, trying to understand what you are talking about I have determined that either:

A - you are a troll
B - you are part of the non-imaginative wave of people coming into this game passing judgement on it after giving an OBVIOUSLY MEAGER attempt at anything.

FC, what do?
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-02-07 19:22:44 UTC
The troll is strong with this one.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#8 - 2013-02-07 19:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?
Hahahahahahaaaaaahahahahaa..!
No.

2)How would eve be able to accomplish a theme park style of play?
See #1, above.

3)If the theme park element was extremely difficult, would it be acceptable to bitter vets?
See #1, above.

4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a
way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.
See #1, above.

5)For be a social game there is not a whole lot of socializing, or getting together in fleets.
Are you new here, or sumpin'?!

6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that
attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.
Are you new here, or sumpin'?!

I don't believe Eve is dying, its in a form of slow growth. However if one plays other games, you realize
that eve is lacking in some things.
Are you new here, or sumpin'?!

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#9 - 2013-02-07 19:29:41 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
...


1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?

The very existence of a theme park violates the core principles of a sandbox. People can try to include "micro sandboxes" in theme parks but it ultimately doesn't work very well as a sandbox. It's just one more "attraction" in the theme park.

2)How would eve be able to accomplish a theme park style of play?

It wouldn't.

3)If the theme park element was extremely difficult, would it be acceptable to bitter vets?

No.

4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.

Passive skill generation is a time based reengagement mechanic that rewards coming back to the game. Every time that someone logs on they have the opportunity to run a mission, do a roam, start a new research job, start a new industry job, fuel a POS, reset their PI, etc. It rewards people for continuing to pay despite not actively playing.

It is a fantastic thing that more companies should use.

5)For be a social game there is not a whole lot of socializing, or getting together in fleets.

I don't think you know what the words "social game" mean.

6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.

There is nothing stopping you from doing this already.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#10 - 2013-02-07 19:41:50 UTC
Just get out.
Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-02-07 19:50:48 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
Most people know the difference between a theme park and a sandbox. A few things to discuss.

1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?

2)How would eve be able to accomplish a theme park style of play?

3)If the theme park element was extremely difficult, would it be acceptable to bitter vets?

4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a
way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.

5)For be a social game there is not a whole lot of socializing, or getting together in fleets.

6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that
attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.

I don't believe Eve is dying, its in a form of slow growth. However if one plays other games, you realize
that eve is lacking in some things.


This was accomplished in Ultima Online pre-Felucca/Trammel split.

You missed out.

Cheers m8
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#12 - 2013-02-07 19:54:06 UTC
Huh? Eve already has theme park elements. They are called missions, epic arcs, anomalies and cosmic signatures.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
TharOkha
0asis Group
#13 - 2013-02-07 19:54:27 UTC
Quote:
However if one plays other games, you realize that eve is lacking in some things.


And thats why every other MMO is going to Free to play model to sustain their playerbase, while EVE is growing..

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Myrissa Kistel
Planetary Logistics
#14 - 2013-02-07 19:57:55 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
Most people know the difference between a theme park and a sandbox. A few things to discuss.

1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?

2)How would eve be able to accomplish a theme park style of play?

3)If the theme park element was extremely difficult, would it be acceptable to bitter vets?

4)Passive skill generation is good, but it doesn't reward constant playing. would there be a
way to incorporate a hybrid system of passive skill generation and active skill generation.

5)For be a social game there is not a whole lot of socializing, or getting together in fleets.

6)Would it be nice for players to set different types of corporations. Not vanilla corporation that
attempt to specialize in something. IE Mining corp get more mining yield, PVP corps do more damage.

I don't believe Eve is dying, its in a form of slow growth. However if one plays other games, you realize
that eve is lacking in some things.


#1: Go play Everquest 2, closet thing I can think of. Better than WoW

#2: Go to Add or Remove Programs in Control Panel, find Eve, click uninstall. That will add a themepark for you.

#3: They are never difficult, I think the word you are looking for is tedious.

#4: EQ 2 is the game you arelooking for.

#5: I have no idea what you are talking about. I am pretty much a solo, hi sec dweller. I can log into my Faction Warfare character and find people to talk to pretty quick. Thats just in a the NPC FW corp. Player run corps are even better. Red V Blu are pretty active as well. You just aren't looking. Also if you type in local, lots of time people will talk back.

#6: We have ships and skills that do exactly that.
Josef Djugashvilis
#15 - 2013-02-07 19:59:26 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
After reading this, i got vomit all over my keyboard and in my lap.


It is your own fault for eating the pizza mentioned in another thread.

This is not a signature.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-02-07 20:06:45 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
1) Is it possible to have a theme park and sandbox in the same mmo?


No. An example of why this doesn't work is the fact that the current iteration of hisec is simply out of place with the sandbox that is the rest of the game.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#17 - 2013-02-07 20:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Callduron
Even if it is possible it's generally a really bad idea to change tack after setting out the gameplay. Eve has an audience who like the game the way it is (more or less).

Historically attempts to makeover a MMO into a different style of game have been disastrous. The Star Wars: Galaxies new player experience was an attempt to make a sandbox game into a themepark game and caused players to leave in droves without attracting new customers.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_101/560-Blowing-Up-Galaxies

Incarna which was a disaster could be seen similarly - an attempt to make a game about spaceships into a hybrid of spaceships and avatars. It was disastrous, led to player riots and saw CCP lay off 200 staff.

So your idea is definitely not one that Eve should try.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#18 - 2013-02-07 20:27:51 UTC
There are a vast many themepark games, but very few (if any) true sandbox games. I really do not understand this desire some people have to change Eve into something which is readily available elsewhere. Many people play Eve because it is not a themepark. Why can't we have this one game that's a little different from the rest?

No good deed goes unpunished
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-07 21:08:38 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

WoW. Its that way ------->


Referencing WoW is old and dumb. I wish people would stop using WoW as an exscuse for all the bad types of game play they don't like. I mean Christ... At least reference Star Trek Online once in a while.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-02-07 21:09:37 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
There are a vast many themepark games, but very few (if any) true sandbox games. I really do not understand this desire some people have to change Eve into something which is readily available elsewhere. Many people play Eve because it is not a themepark. Why can't we have this one game that's a little different from the rest?


Salem is probaly the ultimate sandbox MMO. It also has permadeath.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
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