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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Security Status

Author
Susan Black
Ice Fire Warriors
#1 - 2013-02-07 18:02:31 UTC
Originaly Posted HERE

The Plan

Crime
Security Status is no longer percentage based, but ticks up and down in discrete amounts.

  • -Performing a criminally flagged act will instantly drop you 1 point of security status


  • -Performing a suspect flagged act will instantly drop you 0.1 point of security status



Sec should be straightforward and intuitive. Get rid of the four digit decimals, the rounding issues, and the percentages that make it hard to see how much you will get punished for various actions.

Punishment

CONCORD care about criminals. The Faction Police care about people with low Faction standings.

  • -The speed in which CONCORD responds to a situation is based on the security level of the system AND the security status of the individual performing the crime.


  • -The Faction Police only shoot enemies to their Faction.



The primary point of locking criminals out of highsec is achieved –and more accurately and efficiently so. Consequences for crimes will directly impact the ability to further commit more crimes.

However, the problems that arise from locking players from high-sec are eliminated. Players can freely visit trade hubs, (though they still bear the risk of being shot by players since they are still perma-flashy) and can freely shoot legal targets in high-sec, such as wartargets. This will open the door on a vast amount of legitimate consensual pvp that is currently being deterred due to risk via NPCs.

Regaining Security Status
There’s no perfect way to do this, so I settled on solving one key issue:

  • -Players shouldn’t have to travel to null-sec to pay for crimes committed in low-sec and high-sec.

Furthermore, I think that a player regaining security status is an opportunity for unique, interesting, and fun gameplay. While I’m not explicitly against ‘tags for sec’ or other such notions, I think we can do much more.
How about:

Level-less CONCORD agents scattered, in-space, throughout low-sec and high-sec. These agents would offer missions, each of which give a player 0.1 security status.


  • -The missions would be similar to FW missions in that they pop a public beacon when opened, are relatively easy, and require some traveling


  • -Agent locations would be prime places for players to ‘camp’ –both other pirates and anti-pirates.


  • -Players could hunt pirates inside the public missions


  • -Regaining sec may incur pvp in and of itself, as opposed to mindless grinding in null-sec

www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42

Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2013-02-07 18:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
So if I don't commit a crime, travel through high sec is easier. How is that locking me out exactly?

Not sure I understand why this change is needed.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

AyayaPanda
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-02-07 18:43:24 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So if I don't commit a crime, travel through high sec is easier. How is that locking me out exactly?

Not sure I understand why this change is needed.


Guess OP's idea is:

Even you are negative 10, you can still fly your ship through hs freely. (No faction police aggressing, but any pilot is free to shoot you without concording)
(Maybe in concord system concord faction police will engage you?)

The moment you commit a crime, the concord will show up in 1 sec, and blow your ship up.
If you are negative 9, the concord will spawn be 2 sec,
If you are negative 1, the concord will spawn in 10 sec

As for negative 10, basically you can't successfully perform crime in hs anymore. That kind of "lock out"?
AyayaPanda
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-02-07 18:49:41 UTC
Personally I don't think it make any sense building up your sec status by ratting at null. Why the hell should concord bother what you did in 0.0? That's what pirate faction police should worry about!


If you can gain sec status by hunting pirate player, then there'll be pirate alts everywhere raise up their master's sec status.


Only ratting in low/hs would grant you sec status plus, and you can get some tags in low (Jester's blog:http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2013/01/pirates.html). That would buff low sec a bit as well.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#5 - 2013-02-07 19:14:25 UTC
AyayaPanda wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So if I don't commit a crime, travel through high sec is easier. How is that locking me out exactly?

Not sure I understand why this change is needed.


Guess OP's idea is:

Even you are negative 10, you can still fly your ship through hs freely. (No faction police aggressing, but any pilot is free to shoot you without concording)
(Maybe in concord system concord faction police will engage you?)

The moment you commit a crime, the concord will show up in 1 sec, and blow your ship up.
If you are negative 9, the concord will spawn be 2 sec,
If you are negative 1, the concord will spawn in 10 sec

As for negative 10, basically you can't successfully perform crime in hs anymore. That kind of "lock out"?

The thing is people can already shoot anyone -5 and below, without Concord intervention. Also his idea wouldn't stop me commiting a crime. It simply makes life in high sec easier for me. Which is why I'm not getting it.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

AyayaPanda
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-07 20:20:38 UTC
Mag's wrote:

The thing is people can already shoot anyone -5 and below, without Concord intervention. Also his idea wouldn't stop me commiting a crime. It simply makes life in high sec easier for me. Which is why I'm not getting it.


As for now if you a -5 and below, you'll be attacked by faction police in hs right?

From OP's proposal, you wont. (player can attack you in hs/low, but i guess you'd like that)

As for now if you suicide gank ppl in 0.5 hs, it took around 15~20 sec for concord spawn

From OP's proposal, it would only take 1 sec (or little more) for concord spawn if you are -10; 5 sec if you are -5... etc
Susan Black
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2013-02-07 22:42:45 UTC
I probably should have given basic info about current mechanics, as there's a lot of confusion as to what actually happens to pirates.

Right now, if you are -10, you are NOT CONCORDed going into highsec. The Faction police shoot you, making it pretty much impossible to actually roam and etc. in HS. However, it's not impossible to run around in thrashers and such.

(Note: the Police shooting you as a pirate is not the same as the police shooting you as FW pilot either...)

Anyone who commits a crime get's CONCORDED, no matter what your sec is.



The confusion surround this is one of the reasons I'm suggesting a change. I don't know how many people i've talked to who are utterly convinced that being -10 automatically get you CONCORDed when you go to highsec.





www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42

Susan Black
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2013-02-07 22:47:39 UTC
AyayaPanda wrote:
Personally I don't think it make any sense building up your sec status by ratting at null. Why the hell should concord bother what you did in 0.0? That's what pirate faction police should worry about!


If you can gain sec status by hunting pirate player, then there'll be pirate alts everywhere raise up their master's sec status.


Only ratting in low/hs would grant you sec status plus, and you can get some tags in low (Jester's blog:http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2013/01/pirates.html). That would buff low sec a bit as well.



The whole tag for sec idea seems cheap, honestly. Basically, you can pay to get your sec back if you're rich enough to buy the tags.

And I agree that giving sec for killing other players is way too exploitable.

Which, is why I suggested CONCORD missions you can get all over the place . I would expect that the agents' location would be highly camped places both in high-sec and low-sec ---similar to the old static DED plexes ;)

www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#9 - 2013-02-07 23:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Susan Black wrote:
The confusion surround this is one of the reasons I'm suggesting a change. I don't know how many people i've talked to who are utterly convinced that being -10 automatically get you CONCORDed when you go to highsec.

Why would the fact, that some players are unable to read about or do not want to understand game mechanics require a change to those mechanics?

Remove standings and insurance.

AyayaPanda
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-02-08 16:51:05 UTC
Susan Black wrote:



The whole tag for sec idea seems cheap, honestly. Basically, you can pay to get your sec back if you're rich enough to buy the tags.

And I agree that giving sec for killing other players is way too exploitable.

Which, is why I suggested CONCORD missions you can get all over the place . I would expect that the agents' location would be highly camped places both in high-sec and low-sec ---similar to the old static DED plexes ;)



Seriously I doubt any -10 would bother running CONCORD missions in hs/low. More likely they'll bait in mission site and kill more Pirate

A player with single toon might like to keep his sec status above -2.0, the usual way is ratting in null/mission in hs. Even ratting in null is painful and not efficient enough.

In hs there's an interesting standing service group: they join your corp, run missions for the faction so you can have enough standing to set up your pos without grinding the missions by yourself.
So if the price is right, why not letting ppl repair their sec status? The drop rate of tags can only happen in low-sec, the dropping rate can be relatively low. So ratting in low might be a new profession (replace the static DED) that's profitable. Some anti-piracy/priracy group can get a isk source in low as well.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#11 - 2013-02-08 17:16:27 UTC
part of the idea of the whole sec status thing is that as soon you are an outlaw.... well you are an outlaw.

outlaw -> GTFO highsec. If there would be no penalty or you would have to fly missions in highsec to get the sec status back... it would totally miss the point of the sec status system.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2013-02-08 17:28:49 UTC
AyayaPanda wrote:
Mag's wrote:

The thing is people can already shoot anyone -5 and below, without Concord intervention. Also his idea wouldn't stop me commiting a crime. It simply makes life in high sec easier for me. Which is why I'm not getting it.


As for now if you a -5 and below, you'll be attacked by faction police in hs right?

From OP's proposal, you wont. (player can attack you in hs/low, but i guess you'd like that)

As for now if you suicide gank ppl in 0.5 hs, it took around 15~20 sec for concord spawn

From OP's proposal, it would only take 1 sec (or little more) for concord spawn if you are -10; 5 sec if you are -5... etc
Yes -5 and below. But we travel through high sec and if you're fit correctly it's no issue. This idea means I have far better fits and no problems traveling.

Not only that but it wil not lock me out, or stop me commiting crimes. Just make crimes harder.

The not so hidden agenda here, is the Concord buff. Wrapped in some bull regarding pirates and faction police.

Bad idea that fixes no problem.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Vrykolakasis
Sparrowhawks Corp
#13 - 2013-02-08 17:42:21 UTC
I tend to think CONCORD is omnipotent enough. You have 100% guaranteed death for criminal activity in hs already, and it's already so rapid that you have to carefully plan ganks and whatnot, run some numbers, etc in order to be successful, not to mention invest some isk that you may or may not make back from the gank.

I also don't really like the idea of losing the same volume of sec status for shooting at a ship as I would for killing it, shooting at the pod, or podding the pilot.

And consensual pvp... yeah, I want to consent when someone wants to pvp me, because I'm selfish and want the odds always stacked in my favor. But I don't think the game really needs too many more mechanics that add to consensual pvp and reduce the ease of non-consensual pvp, because the possibility of suddenly being attacked or being able to suddenly attack someone, just because I want to or don't like them or whatever (or vice versa), is very much amongst the main attractions of the game for me.
AyayaPanda
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-02-08 17:52:37 UTC
Like what the true mighty pirate stated above, -10 don't care about their sec status anymore.
For those who engage neutral in FW, or for those who do some casual pew in low but still wanna fly an Orca in ha later, sec status is a stupid thing to keep up.

I do appreciate the growing of FW community, and I'd love to see the rest of the low sec get populated as well. More peeps living in low = more things to blow up = welcome to the real EVE.

The following number is pulling frome someone's @ss, not based on reality:
Ratting in null: let's say 40~60m isk/hr
No sec status award

Ratting in low: 30~40m isk/hr
sec status award, and tag drop

Mission lv4 in hs: 20~30m isk/hr
sec status award, no tag drop

When you hang in the tags to concord, you also need to bribe them with a certain amount of isk for the miracle sec status lift

As long as you are rich enough, you can buy tags from others and get your sec status back. That would cost you, let's say 50~80m isk/hr. Partial of that payment goes to low sec ratter, they can make as much isk/hr as null sec ratter; partial of that isk goes to concord and poof.