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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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Xaero Petraeus
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#81 - 2013-02-07 14:53:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Xaero Petraeus
meh Roll
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#82 - 2013-02-07 14:56:33 UTC
Looks great!!

Now get back into ship rebalancing haha Pirate
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp
#83 - 2013-02-07 14:57:57 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:

Can you please answer directly: do we have to train skill prerequisites to progress in that skill?
To level Freighters V without Advanced Spaceships Command V, or to maximize Command ships V without all those useless links?
I dont worry about "you will able to fly" thing. I want to know if I need to maximize skills now to skip useless skills that you introduced as prerequisites for command ships today.


Independent of ships if the skill training requirements change, then yes. In order to train those skills after the expansion hits you will need those skills trained.

So for the Fenrir you will need to first have Advanced Spaceship Command at level V before you can start training Minmatar Freighter, but the prerequisite for that skill has changed.

Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
Ethan Revenant
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#84 - 2013-02-07 14:59:00 UTC
Irregessa wrote:
If you are going to be flying a command ship in a fleet, you really already should have all those skills to V anyway, to provide those benefits to your fleet.

The problem is that what are called the field command ships (absolution, sleipnir, astarte and nighthawk) are often flown as combat ships, not as support ships. What I would like to see done (though this would add yet more sp to clones) would be to make the fleet command ships the only command ships, and make the field command ships a separate ship entirely, like a heavy assault battlecruiser - that is essentially how they are used now in everything but the alliance tournament. I'm sure someone will jump in and say how they use the nighthawk in place of the vulture for some kind of fleet, or something similar, but outlying cases don't disqualify the larger issue at hand.


If this devblog comes to pass, the distinction between fleet and field command ships will vanish. (I hope this only means that the fleet command ships will get a full set of highs of their weapons and not have their other bonuses nixed in favor of combat bonuses. I can dream, okay.)
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#85 - 2013-02-07 14:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldari 5
OMFG People in this thread need to learn about nested skills !!!!!!!!!!!!

Skill 1
- Nested Skill 2
- Nested Skill 3
- - Nested Nested Skill 3-2

If you have Skill 1 already you don't have to train the Nested Skills. Unless you are going to try and train that skill after the changes, then you will need to train them.

You will not get the Nested Skills added to your toon as part of the change.
Phobos Vortex
#86 - 2013-02-07 15:02:42 UTC
Quote:
While we are fine with time sinks, they should be related to the field you are specializing into and not push you into hulls you are not interested in.


But we are still forced to specialize in small weapons before we can specialize in large ones. Tis doesnt make sense and it was stated earlier that this issue will be discussed. So when we now can specialize directly into the ships we want, why are we still pushed into weapons we are not interested in?
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#87 - 2013-02-07 15:03:18 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
CCP RubberBAND wrote:

Correct!

Can you please answer directly: do we have to train skill prerequisites to progress in that skill?
To level Freighters V without Advanced Spaceships Command V, or to maximize Command ships V without all those useless links?
I dont worry about "you will able to fly" thing. I want to know if I need to maximize skills now to skip useless skills that you introduced as prerequisites for command ships today.


Straight answer?

You simply don't understand how skills work! Prerequisites are checked when you are trying to inject the skill from its skill book. Once it is in your skill queue - even at 0 - you are free to skill as far as you want.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-02-07 15:04:10 UTC
Phobos Vortex wrote:
Quote:
While we are fine with time sinks, they should be related to the field you are specializing into and not push you into hulls you are not interested in.


But we are still forced to specialize in small weapons before we can specialize in large ones. Tis doesnt make sense and it was stated earlier that this issue will be discussed. So when we now can specialize directly into the ships we want, why are we still pushed into weapons we are not interested in?


Very much this, time to split them up too.
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#89 - 2013-02-07 15:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Irregessa
So, someone I know is saying that when they had Large Railgun Spec 2 trained and happened to lose Large Hybrid Turret 5 due to dying in an insufficient clone, he could not continue to train Large Railgun Spec until he got Large Hybrid Turret back up to 5 again.

If that is how it works, if I have a character who presently knows Command Ships 3 but doesn't have the leadership skills to 5, he won't be able to train Command Ships 4 until he does?

edit: I now have had multiple people tell me they have had the above situation happen to them.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#90 - 2013-02-07 15:13:57 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:

Can you please answer directly: do we have to train skill prerequisites to progress in that skill?
To level Freighters V without Advanced Spaceships Command V, or to maximize Command ships V without all those useless links?
I dont worry about "you will able to fly" thing. I want to know if I need to maximize skills now to skip useless skills that you introduced as prerequisites for command ships today.


Independent of ships if the skill training requirements change, then yes. In order to train those skills after the expansion hits you will need those skills trained.

So for the Fenrir you will need to first have Advanced Spaceship Command at level V before you can start training Minmatar Freighter, but the prerequisite for that skill has changed.


this suck.

i currently have all the * warfare to III, warfare link specialis IV and Command Ship to 4

this means that even if the skill is injected and already trained up to IV, after the expansion i'll need to get ALL the *Warfare ti V BEFORE i can even resume training the Command Ship V?

if yes, this is bullshit
ORCACommander
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#91 - 2013-02-07 15:18:00 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
ORCACommander wrote:
You need a blurb in there about where to apply for reimbursement and when you want us to apply.


No need to apply, the new skills will be done and placed in your head automagically.



AHHHH GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!!!!!!


*runs head first into a wall*


hmm might want to clear that up on the end of the blog then
Wiu Ming
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-02-07 15:18:02 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
2. Let's assume I want to fly Domination...


I flew a Domination once.
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-02-07 15:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: tgl3
seth Hendar wrote:
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:

Can you please answer directly: do we have to train skill prerequisites to progress in that skill?
To level Freighters V without Advanced Spaceships Command V, or to maximize Command ships V without all those useless links?
I dont worry about "you will able to fly" thing. I want to know if I need to maximize skills now to skip useless skills that you introduced as prerequisites for command ships today.


Independent of ships if the skill training requirements change, then yes. In order to train those skills after the expansion hits you will need those skills trained.

So for the Fenrir you will need to first have Advanced Spaceship Command at level V before you can start training Minmatar Freighter, but the prerequisite for that skill has changed.


this suck.

i currently have all the * warfare to III, warfare link specialis IV and Command Ship to 4

this means that even if the skill is injected and already trained up to IV, after the expansion i'll need to get ALL the *Warfare ti V BEFORE i can even resume training the Command Ship V?

if yes, this is bullshit

As far as I know, as long as the skill is already injected, you can keep training it further. It's the injection of the skill that is affected by the prerequisites. However, I could be wrong, and would appreciate a CCP response on the matter.
Aineko Macx
#94 - 2013-02-07 15:19:08 UTC
Dedicated supercap chars should get their skillpoints for racial BS 4 and 5 reimbursed.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Sarmatiko
#95 - 2013-02-07 15:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Straight answer?

You simply don't understand how skills work! Prerequisites are checked when you are trying to inject the skill from its skill book. Once it is in your skill queue - even at 0 - you are free to skill as far as you want.

Yeah, you saying this like training injected skills with one or more missing prerequisites is a common case.
Guess I just need to pod myself few times without clone just to test this out?

I'll better ask for direct answer and doublecheck because I don't want to train another pack of useless skills for another 60+ days in addition to now irrelevant Assault/Heavy assault ships.

Anyway I just started to train CS V so problem is solved.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#96 - 2013-02-07 15:20:25 UTC
tgl3 wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:

Can you please answer directly: do we have to train skill prerequisites to progress in that skill?
To level Freighters V without Advanced Spaceships Command V, or to maximize Command ships V without all those useless links?
I dont worry about "you will able to fly" thing. I want to know if I need to maximize skills now to skip useless skills that you introduced as prerequisites for command ships today.


Independent of ships if the skill training requirements change, then yes. In order to train those skills after the expansion hits you will need those skills trained.

So for the Fenrir you will need to first have Advanced Spaceship Command at level V before you can start training Minmatar Freighter, but the prerequisite for that skill has changed.


this suck.

i currently have all the * warfare to III, warfare link specialis IV and Command Ship to 4

this means that even if the skill is injected and already trained up to IV, after the expansion i'll need to get ALL the *Warfare ti V BEFORE i can even resume training the Command Ship V?

if yes, this is bullshit

As far as I know, as long as the skill is already injected, you can keep training it further. It's the injection of the skill that is affected by the prerequisites. However, I could be wrong, and would appreciate a CCP response on the matter.


that's what i was thinking prior to CCP Ruberband answer, stating:

Quote:
Independent of ships if the skill training requirements change, then yes. In order to train those skills after the expansion hits you will need those skills trained.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#97 - 2013-02-07 15:22:06 UTC



Many people in situations similar to mine can currently fly the Archon with these skills:
BS at V, JDO at 1, and Amarr Carrier at I.....

After this change, I will not be able to fly the Archon, as I wont have JDO V, let alone JFC or JDC

CCP CLEARLY state "if we can fly it today, we can fly it tomorrow.... "

Are you planning to address this?
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-02-07 15:23:56 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:



Many people in situations similar to mine can currently fly the Archon with these skills:
BS at V, JDO at 1, and Amarr Carrier at I.....

After this change, I will not be able to fly the Archon, as I wont have JDO V, let alone JFC or JDC

CCP CLEARLY state "if we can fly it today, we can fly it tomorrow.... "

Are you planning to address this?

You will still have the Carrier skill trained, so you can fly the ship.
What you may NOT be able to do, is train the Carrier skill further.
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#99 - 2013-02-07 15:24:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Irregessa
Beaten by the post above
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#100 - 2013-02-07 15:24:42 UTC
So, when are the guns/launchers going to get the same treatment?
Those skill trees have the same derpy 2-dimensional non-sensical requirements as the ships had.

For example, with hybrid weapons, It's pretty dumb that in order to train Large Blaster Specialization you have to train the smaller specializations to 4 as well as all of the hybrid weapon skills to 5. By the time you can even upload the Large BLaster Spec skill, you'll already have "specialized" in everything, making the term "specialization" a bit moot ;)

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