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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Ship/skill progression

Author
Grav Crucible
Starline Enterprises
Watch This
#1 - 2013-02-06 20:54:16 UTC
Hey guys,

I started a week ago and have dabbled with a few things on a couple of characters. I sort of have a medium-long term goal - I want to do higher level PvE missions, with the aim of ending up in PvP at some point in the future. I flew a Catalyst destroyer with a bunch of railguns and recently upgraded to a Vexor, but I really don't like the drone mechanics. I much prefer blasting things myself. A couple of questions on that note, then..

What sort of skill/ship progression can I take that'll get me into bigger and better ships for higher level missions? What do I want to be training that's best for the long term? Bearing in mind..

.. should I cross train for another faction? I hear Gallente are quite drone based, and I don't really like it. Lasers sound cool. Turrets are fun.

The sheer number of options is a bit daunting, so some direction or suggestions would be awesome of things that might fit what I want to do.

Thanks a lot,
Crucible
Ronix Aideron
Zymurgy Corp.
#2 - 2013-02-06 20:59:08 UTC
Not matter what she says bigger is not always better.Big smile

A destroyer can easily do level three security missions. There is no need to jump up to a larger ship right away. I would recommend getting your core skills up which will translate to any ship that you desire.

You can look at the certificates and see what it takes to get to roughly standard level on gunnery, core and defense. These alone will make you much more effective at PvE and PvP.

Start the day off slow and taper off from there.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ronix_Aideron

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-06 21:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Grav Crucible wrote:
Hey guys,

I started a week ago and have dabbled with a few things on a couple of characters. I sort of have a medium-long term goal - I want to do higher level PvE missions, with the aim of ending up in PvP at some point in the future. I flew a Catalyst destroyer with a bunch of railguns and recently upgraded to a Vexor, but I really don't like the drone mechanics. I much prefer blasting things myself. A couple of questions on that note, then..

What sort of skill/ship progression can I take that'll get me into bigger and better ships for higher level missions? What do I want to be training that's best for the long term? Bearing in mind..

.. should I cross train for another faction? I hear Gallente are quite drone based, and I don't really like it. Lasers sound cool. Turrets are fun.

The sheer number of options is a bit daunting, so some direction or suggestions would be awesome of things that might fit what I want to do.

Thanks a lot,
Crucible


1.) Bigger does NOT mean better in EVE. A proper flown small ship with be WAY better then a rushed big ship.

2.) You don't HAVE to do anything up to high end PvE if you want to PvP. You can do PvP when ever you feel you are ready for it, however you will need to have a source of income to fund that PvP.

3.) As for skills, it depends which ships you intend to fly and what kind of PvP / PvE styles you like.

4.) General idea of race / tank / weapons.

Amarr / Armor / Lasers
Gallente / Armor / Blasters (hybrid guns) or Drones
Caldari / Shield / Railguns (hybrid guns) or Missiles
Minmatar / Both (some shield, some armor) / Projectile weapons.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#4 - 2013-02-06 21:06:32 UTC
Guns : Incusus - Catalyst - Thorax - Brutix/Talos - Hyperion/Megathron

Drones: Tristan - Algos - Vexor - Myrmidon - Dominix

The Drake is a Lie

Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#5 - 2013-02-06 21:08:40 UTC
I would suggest working your way up to battleship.
As you work your way up you can check out the different kinds of ships.

Personally, I am a strategic cruiser fan.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Grav Crucible
Starline Enterprises
Watch This
#6 - 2013-02-06 21:19:42 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


3.) As for skills, it depends which ships you intend to fly and what kind of PvP / PvE styles you like.

4.) General idea of race / tank / weapons.

Amarr / Armor / Lasers
Gallente / Armor / Blasters (hybrid guns) or Drones
Caldari / Shield / Railguns (hybrid guns) or Missiles
Minmatar / Both (some shield, some armor) / Projectile weapons.


Thanks everyone, taking it all on board.

Regarding these 2 specifically - what are general advantages of lasers vs. railguns, for instance? I don't really have a style beyond liking shooting things. I'm sort of drawn to Amarr, though I'm not really sure why - I just the idea of lasers and armor tanking. Is there a reasonable Amarr ship that'll get me through level 2/3 missions, that I can buy and fit out to see if it works for me? I have the long weekend to train skills if I need to crosstrain much. I'm just trying to scope out options really and figure out where things end up - otherwise I can see myself in 2 months time with a bit of everything and good at nothing having made little progress.

And on destroyers doing level 3 missions - how? Maybe this'll give me an idea of where I can improve - when I was doing level 2s in my Catalyst I was able to clear all the frigates, but was usually left with a group of cruisers which just took way too long to kill relative to the amount of damage they were doing to me. My DPS was just feeble.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-02-06 21:21:34 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Guns : Incusus - Catalyst - Thorax - Brutix/Talos - Hyperion/Megathron

Drones: Tristan - Algos - Vexor - Myrmidon - Dominix


Thanks Xer. Gallente is the only race I never flown and likely never will cause they just totally don't match my game style

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Merouk Baas
#8 - 2013-02-06 21:40:04 UTC
Grav Crucible wrote:

Regarding these 2 specifically - what are general advantages of lasers vs. railguns, for instance?

Is there a reasonable Amarr ship that'll get me through level 2/3 missions, that I can buy and fit out to see if it works for me?

And on destroyers doing level 3 missions - how?


Lasers don't use ammo (they use focusing crystals). Hybrids and Projectiles do use ammo, so you are limited by the size of your cargo hold (for spare ammo), and you shoot shoot shoot shoot reload.... shoot shoot shoot shoot reload.... which reduces your DPS some. Laser ships are prefered in protracted big fleet battles because you can shoot for hours with no need for logistics to bring you more ammo.

Lasers, on the other hand, use a lot of capacitor energy to function, so they're best on the Amarr ships (which have bigger capacitors than other races). But you're still vulnerable to neutralizers and must have good cap recharge skills. Hybrids use ammo and a bit less capacitor, and Projectiles use ammo and no capacitor at all (in some PVP that's a big advantage).

Finally, all weapons have 2 varieties: short and long range. For lasers, the ranges are short/medium, and medium/long, so you have a bit of a leeway in your range-keeping. Hybrids are either point blank or super long range, and projectiles are short or long range, both of them kind of have a blind spot, so to speak, for medium ranges. People adjust by maneuvering their ship close or far, though.

For level 2 level 3 missions, you're typically looking at a cruiser. Both the Omen and the Maller are quite "reasonable" combat ships.

Several possible ways for a destroyer to do level 3 missions:

1. It's a short delivery mission or it's a combat mission where you already have a spare item to hand in (basically, complete the mission without fighting).

2. Use a speed tanking setup (a small and fast ship can actually get damage reduction by being small and fast - the enemy just can't hit you). The higher level missions have some heavy ships attacking you, mixed in with smaller frigates, if you are in a super-fast destroyer, it's designed to kill frigates so you take out the frigates and you're left with just the enemy cruisers and battlecruisers on the field. Those are bulky slow ships that have big turrets that can one shot you if you stand still, but since you're orbitting at 1000 m/s at 500m radius around them, they just simply cannot track your ship.

3. He possibly used electronic warfare to disrupt the targetting of the enemy ships. This is somewhat hard to do as the NPCs are so many in a site, but with small fleet player PVP engagements it's very effective.
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-02-06 23:23:36 UTC
Grav Crucible wrote:
with the aim of ending up in PvP at some point in the future. I

If you want to do PVP then go out and do PVP. You dont need to wait till you can 'afford all teh purples', you just need the courage to take out a cheap frigate or cruiser that you can watch blow up and giggle, and start finding people to shoot at with said ship. Player skills and situational advantage are huge.

If you wait until you can fit a huge death star, you will have no skills between keyboard and chair. As a result, you will have your shiny ultra-expensive ship destroyed by a feisty newbie in a frigate that is worth less, fittings and ammo and all, than even one of your DRONES or turrets let alone your whole shiny T2/faction ship.


The difference between you and that newbie is that HE said "Hey I can fly a ship whee! I'm gonna start learning to blow things up!" earlier that week.

On Monday, he picked a fight with a pirate and lost his first ship, said "That was cool, how can I get better at this?" to said pirate and got a bunch of advice. On Tuesday he figured how to use bookmarks and jumping to drop onto a target at a good range, along with some other nifty techniques that cost 0.00 ISK and 0 Skillpoints to learn.

Today is Wednesday, and he just appeared on top of you, under your guns, scrambled you and neuted your tank. You hit at least three wrong buttons in panic, don't have your overview set up right, and have no idea how to deal with any of the stuff he is throwing at you.

Before Thursday rolls around, he's going to be showing this awesome solo killmail to his pirate friends while YOU grump that pirates are OP and you obviously need to wait longer and buy an even fancier ship to deal with this "ancient pirate PVP dude with a zillion SP who you have no chance to catch up to that ganked you".

=)

So yeah. If you wanna PVP, be like the feisty newbie instead.
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-02-07 08:26:22 UTC
Unfortunately if you want to fly a battleship drones are going to be a must. Personally I hate pets/miromanagement to the point words can't even begin to describe my hatred for it.

Drone skills are important when flying a BS to kill those pesky frigates that get too close and web you!

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]

Kaethe Kollwitz
#11 - 2013-02-07 10:40:06 UTC
as others have said the core skills are your best bet right now:

there is an old post here in eve search that you should skim: read this

on a personal note while you are training those consider training up to battlecruiser V. CCP plan to split this skill into 4 racial skills at some point in the future so you could save yourself ~100 days training by having it at V.

[URL=http://runners-alliance.weebly.com/index.html]1. THIS IS NOT AN ALLIANCE!![/URL]  - [URL=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=202586&find=unread]2. FREE PRIZE GIVEAWAY[/URL]

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-02-07 11:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Cross training Minmatar will give you access to 3 new ship lines

Standard Minmatar ships
Angel Ships (Dramiel, Cynabal, Machariel)
Guardian Ships (Daredevil, Vigilant, Vindicator)

Hybrid & Projectile Gunnery skills will be required, along with shield & armour tanking skills.

It's the most SP efficient x-training strategy, as the combo is Gallente/Minmatar & Minmatar/Gallente
no other 2 faction combination results in 4 shiplines

the 3 other Pirate Faction combinations are
Gallente/Caldari
Amarr/Caldari
Amarr/Minmatar





not that the Devs have ever had a hardon for all things Minmatar ..........
Ixpha
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-02-07 15:40:07 UTC
just a heads up if ur sticking with Amarr, their ships are most effective to mission in amarr space or space that contains blood raider and sansha rats because of the laser dmg is EM/thermal, this limits you somewhat compared to a missile setup or minmatar wich can do all kinds of dmg. If you do missions anywhere else it will slow you down considerably over time.
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-07 15:44:58 UTC
Amarr are diversifying a bit with recent changes to include missiles and drones.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#15 - 2013-02-07 18:38:36 UTC
Battle cruisers are very flexible. Will do lvl 3s and 4s and with ease AND are good for pvp both solo and fleet. Wouldn't be bad goal to fly one efficiently by your 6 month mark imo.

Also the skill is about to be split into 4 races in a couple of months. People who have it maxed and have the race cruisers to lvl 3 will get the skill maxed for free. If you count destroyers as well this means about 6 million free sp so it would certainly be worth the effort to train it sooner rather then later.

Hope this helps and fly safe o/

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