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PvP training wheels - NPC mission type...
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Sedstr
#1 - 2013-02-03 15:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sedstr
The mission is to locate and eliminate X ships within a period of time.
The NPCs are:
.................locatable with locator agents.
.................locatable with dscan (ship names provided in mission description) .
.................probable. (sig id provided in mission description).

They will avoid being destroyed, level of difficulty is based on agent level.

The NPCs will use some of the tactics players use including\:
.................warping out to other celestials on player warping to location.
.................warping to safe spots, requiring the player combat probe them out.
.................playing station games, requiring organized alpha or bumping.
.................using gates, jumping and reapproaching and jumping or warping off based on aggression timers.

essentially playing the same games players play, either requiring help, or moving onto another target of the same name in another system..

NPCs will escalate and deescalate their tactics based on level of interaction, take on a cruiser in a belt with a kiting frig and take too long, it will start jumping to celestials, then perhaps dockup and warp to random sites, then start docking up and insta undocking giving you a chance to probe it down. to the point where it will bounce between safe spots making it almost impossible to get that rat till it starts deescalating its behavior.

Officer rats warp off, so code is already there to an extent, it would take some time and effort to write the AI to provide this type of mission, but I believe it would make peoples transition from non-PVP to PVP less problematic if they at least have some skills developed via a NPC mechanic like this.



It would all make for a fun mission that individuals and small groups could do and there are a few variables in there that could be tweaked either way to prevent excessive farming...

...
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-02-03 15:43:25 UTC
Sedstr wrote:
Add a mission type 'strategic offense'

The mission is to locate and eliminate X ships within a period of time.
The NPC rats are in DScanable ships with distinctive names.
They will avoid being destroyed, some more than others, including warping out and sitting in safe spots, requiring probing, and playing the same station games players play, either requiring help, or moving onto another target of the same name in another system - like the NPC start out using weak tactics and escalate...

Essentially providing a mission which is more like PVP and actually requires a PVP fit to achieve the objectives of the missions.



If they can be probed, can I come probe them down and kill them before you, thus ruining your mission?
Sedstr
#3 - 2013-02-03 15:52:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sedstr
Danika Princip wrote:
Sedstr wrote:
Add a mission type 'strategic offense'

The mission is to locate and eliminate X ships within a period of time.
The NPC rats are in DScanable ships with distinctive names.
They will avoid being destroyed, some more than others, including warping out and sitting in safe spots, requiring probing, and playing the same station games players play, either requiring help, or moving onto another target of the same name in another system - like the NPC start out using weak tactics and escalate...

Essentially providing a mission which is more like PVP and actually requires a PVP fit to achieve the objectives of the missions.



If they can be probed, can I come probe them down and kill them before you, thus ruining your mission?


yes, but it would be X number, make each constellation contain X number of these rats at any one time as a ratio of current missions of matching type being run in the constellation/region, and the NPC being probable, that is just one stage of the behavior depending on its escalation / deescalation stage, you could find it first in a belt just idling and instapop it, but its a mission target so doesn't need to drop any significant loot, because there are more than one, the player doing the mission just jumps a few systems to find the next one... perhaps players could harass the NPC rats, escalating their behavior, which would be a waste of time, but could be done...

CCP could also add a lot more scenery celestials for NPC's to warp to.

...
Iagus Damaclese
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-02-03 16:05:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Iagus Damaclese
Not a bad idea to be honest, it would help with the problem of PvE missions being so repetitive which is something has been needing some attention for a while, the only thing would that AI programing would be intensive for something like this however not impossible. Would be sometime before we actually saw the implementation of such missions.

I think it would be interesting if you set up a way for missions for an NPC faction or corporation to make targets of players that have negative standing with the faction/corp issuing the mission. Not saying I want the idea implemented, but it would interesting to see just how it played out and what affects it would have on the universe.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-03 16:11:04 UTC
The irony in this thread...Straight

You imply that pvp in Eve is limited to the ganker probing down carebear and the carebear warping out to safe. The fact this this is true is what makes it sad.
Iagus Damaclese
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-02-03 16:13:50 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
The irony in this thread...Straight

You imply that pvp in Eve is limited to the ganker probing down carebear and the carebear warping out to safe. The fact this this is true is what makes it sad.


What?

Failing to see the relevance of what you just said in relation to the above discussion.
Sedstr
#7 - 2013-02-06 10:00:56 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
The irony in this thread...Straight

You imply that pvp in Eve is limited to the ganker probing down carebear and the carebear warping out to safe. The fact this this is true is what makes it sad.



There was no implication, this is just another suggestion.

The OP describes a PVE mission type that at least emulates PVP in some ways, rather than the current PVE which really is nothing like PVP.

Providing a hunt and kill mission which emulates to an extent, a PVP instance where one party is trying to escape being killed.
Perhaps the storyline missions for these type would deploy smarter NPC which are a lot harder and which seek out the player as well as running away...

This is just a suggestion for a mission type which may provide experience in at least some aspects of PVP which can only be a good thing... currently there is no transition from PVE to PVP, its all in.

...
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#8 - 2013-02-06 10:42:28 UTC
To make things more realistic and betetr prepare platyers to PvP we could also have these misison rats scripted to smacktalk in local like

"lolz me p0wned U", "l00sEr geTaliFe", "you are good only outnumber me 2 vs 1" and so on...

or, why not, maybe also having them posting some whine on the forum about cloacking and hotdrop.
Anthar Thebess
#9 - 2013-02-06 11:00:32 UTC
PVE is pve.
If you want PVP mission go to nullsec , find a WH ... i guarantee that the "mission" loot will be grater , and there will be more fun!.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#10 - 2013-02-06 11:22:28 UTC
They already exist. I undock from station after talking to my agent [My Conscience] and after realizing I have more morals, proceed to kill people as if it was PvP; except I pretend like they are Rats. So its like i'm PvEing while I PvP.
Sedstr
#11 - 2013-02-07 04:45:14 UTC
bump, only 1 like, WTF!

...
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#12 - 2013-02-07 06:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
i like the idea. I think it has great potential and is also in line with the plans CCP has to make pve less repetitive and reduce the gap between pve and pvp. Locator agents could be even used if you want to speed the search up by paying a small fee.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Sedstr
#13 - 2013-02-07 06:11:50 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
i like the idea. I think it has great potential and is also in line with the plans CCP has to make pve less repetitive and reduce the gap between pve and pvp. Locator agents could be used if you want to speed the search up by paying a small fee.


nice - and via locator agents, good point.


...
FoxFire Ayderan
#14 - 2013-02-07 06:41:33 UTC
Sedstr wrote:
bump, only 1 like, WTF!


Make that 2 .

Sounds good to me.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-02-07 06:56:29 UTC
Sedstr wrote:
Add a mission type 'strategic offense'

The mission is to locate and eliminate X ships within a period of time.
The NPCs are:
.................locatable with locator agents.
.................locatable with dscan (ship names provided in mission description) .
.................probable.

They will avoid being destroyed, level of difficulty is based on agent level.

The NPCs will use some of the tactics players use including\:
.................warping out to other celestials on player warping to location.
.................warping to safe spots, requiring the player combat probe them out.
.................playing station games, requiring organized alpha or bumping.
.................using gates, jumping and reapproaching and jumping or warping off based on aggression timers.

essentially playing the same games players play, either requiring help, or moving onto another target of the same name in another system..

NPCs will escalate and deescalate their tactics based on level of interaction, take on a cruiser in a belt with a frig and take too long, it will start jumping to celestials, then perhaps dockup and warp to random sites, then start docking up and insta undocking giving you a chance to probe it down. to the point where it will bounce between safe spots making it almost impossible to get that rat till it starts de escalating its behavior.

Officer rats warp off, so code is already there to an extent, it would take some time and effort to write the AI to provide this type of mission, but I believe it would make peoples transition from non-PVP to PVP less problematic if they at least have the skills developed via a NPC mechanic like this.



why not make missions that ARE pvp. Hunt down and repeatedly pod player "x". Return with 47 corpses from this player and recieve 100 loyalty points for your trouble, and a handful of isklets of course !

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Sedstr
#16 - 2013-02-07 07:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sedstr
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Sedstr wrote:
Add a mission type 'strategic offense'

The mission is to locate and eliminate X ships within a period of time.
The NPCs are:
.................locatable with locator agents.
.................locatable with dscan (ship names provided in mission description) .
.................probable.

They will avoid being destroyed, level of difficulty is based on agent level.

The NPCs will use some of the tactics players use including\:
.................warping out to other celestials on player warping to location.
.................warping to safe spots, requiring the player combat probe them out.
.................playing station games, requiring organized alpha or bumping.
.................using gates, jumping and reapproaching and jumping or warping off based on aggression timers.

essentially playing the same games players play, either requiring help, or moving onto another target of the same name in another system..

NPCs will escalate and deescalate their tactics based on level of interaction, take on a cruiser in a belt with a frig and take too long, it will start jumping to celestials, then perhaps dockup and warp to random sites, then start docking up and insta undocking giving you a chance to probe it down. to the point where it will bounce between safe spots making it almost impossible to get that rat till it starts de escalating its behavior.

Officer rats warp off, so code is already there to an extent, it would take some time and effort to write the AI to provide this type of mission, but I believe it would make peoples transition from non-PVP to PVP less problematic if they at least have the skills developed via a NPC mechanic like this.



why not make missions that ARE pvp. Hunt down and repeatedly pod player "x". Return with 47 corpses from this player and recieve 100 loyalty points for your trouble, and a handful of isklets of course !



KM whoring... NPCs don't post KM and they don't pod you...

I'm suggesting CCP provide a way for players to learn some aspects of PVP outside of the public fora, I'm sure many players would be far more willing to lose ships to NPCs rather than have their 'stupid deaths' displayed for all to see.


Having said all this, one could ask, why not have players take on the role of these NPCs? but just not allow a KM system that would expose failure....

...
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-02-07 07:24:19 UTC
Sedstr wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Sedstr wrote:
Add a mission type 'strategic offense'

The mission is to locate and eliminate X ships within a period of time.
The NPCs are:
.................locatable with locator agents.
.................locatable with dscan (ship names provided in mission description) .
.................probable.

They will avoid being destroyed, level of difficulty is based on agent level.

The NPCs will use some of the tactics players use including\:
.................warping out to other celestials on player warping to location.
.................warping to safe spots, requiring the player combat probe them out.
.................playing station games, requiring organized alpha or bumping.
.................using gates, jumping and reapproaching and jumping or warping off based on aggression timers.

essentially playing the same games players play, either requiring help, or moving onto another target of the same name in another system..

NPCs will escalate and deescalate their tactics based on level of interaction, take on a cruiser in a belt with a frig and take too long, it will start jumping to celestials, then perhaps dockup and warp to random sites, then start docking up and insta undocking giving you a chance to probe it down. to the point where it will bounce between safe spots making it almost impossible to get that rat till it starts de escalating its behavior.

Officer rats warp off, so code is already there to an extent, it would take some time and effort to write the AI to provide this type of mission, but I believe it would make peoples transition from non-PVP to PVP less problematic if they at least have the skills developed via a NPC mechanic like this.



why not make missions that ARE pvp. Hunt down and repeatedly pod player "x". Return with 47 corpses from this player and recieve 100 loyalty points for your trouble, and a handful of isklets of course !



KM whoring... NPCs don't post KM and they don't pod you...

I'm suggesting CCP provide a way for players to learn some aspects of PVP outside of the public fora, I'm sure many players would be far more willing to lose ships to NPCs rather than have their 'stupid deaths' displayed for all to see.


Having said all this, one could ask, why not have players take on the role of these NPCs? but just not allow a KM system that would expose failure....


so PvP training wheels eh?

It would be hard to mimic the whole pvp experience, however, they could go a long long way towards teaching them to use specific tactics that would be useful in PvP, so they could build a basic tool-kit of things they know, then use actual pvp later on to encorporate them together.

I think it's a worthy goal. PvP can be an overwhelming prospect for newer players that jump right in to the deep end, and while some survive and do very well, there's no reason the client couldn't help teach some basics, making the player-teachers job a bit easier in the end.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde