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Miners. FORCE THE CHANGE
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The Apostle
Doomheim
#121 - 2011-10-25 11:48:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

If there is an eve-wide mineral shortage, why on earth would we throw away a strategic advantage by supplying minerls to our enemies?

PS, your estimate of nullsec population is out by a couple of orders of magnitude.

Malc. The 2 holes at the top of your head must be used first.

That's what I said...

And as for my "estimate", it's EXACTLY what I'd expect you to do. That's what I am HOPING for.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#122 - 2011-10-25 11:49:38 UTC
Two problems:

1. People who gank aren't miners.

2. People who can overcome personal greed for a common goal aren't miners.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#123 - 2011-10-25 11:54:58 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Isogen is limited to 2 roid types. Kernite, found in Amarr space 0.7 and below, and Omber in Minmatar and Gallente 0.7 and below.
…and that is why a miners' blockade on iso will have no effect: because they're not the primary (or even secondary) producers.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2011-10-25 12:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
The Apostle wrote:
Red Templar wrote:
How do you plan to enforce embargo for any significant amount of time?

Huge coalitions has a gaps when trying to gank only in few selected systems. And keep in mind, most of those gankers are experts in what they do.

How do you actually propose to embargo all highsec systems, with only a few carebear miners, who support this action, and who cannot sustain this kind of blockade for long. For them, ruining their security standing has much bigger consequences, since they want to continue living in high-sec. And who is going to pay for their losses during absolutely glorious miner on miner gankogeddon? You?
In the first few days people will loose security standing, and then, since they dont have organized bases, poses, logistic centers, it will all break down.

And dont get me wrong. I may think that this whole idea is stupid and ridiculous, but i still think it will be funny to see what you will be able to do. Just for the kicks, just to see what happens. Thats why we play the game, right?

Highsec miners outnumber G**ns currently doing ice interdiction ops. I know, I went and counted you G**ns today. And that same trip to Gallente ice today also showed the effectiveness of your campaign.

Isogen is limited to 2 roid types. Kernite, found in Amarr space 0.7 and below, and Omber in Minmatar and Gallente 0.7 and below. A concerted effort can be effective - granted, only if the majority of highsec miners join.

1) Most should refuse to mine in support for those 2 types and those that do must be stopped.
2) Blockading major hubs (we only want the Isogen transports) can be accomplished both by miners themselves, their alts or new 10 day alts. Don't discount using merc corps either.
3) Failing that, simply buying up and holding stock will also drive the prices up.

It's quite obvious that this NEEDS miners to participate. If not then they have only themselves to blame.


you seem to forget the hidden omber deposits that do spawn all over high sec and also you forget the omber roids that also spawn in mission dungeons.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#125 - 2011-10-25 12:37:40 UTC
BTW, 2 of my characters can fly Hulks, and Malc can also do a perfectly competent mining Rokh with T2 mining lasers and mining upgrades tyvm. (I am veteran enough to remember when you could make a good living mining Crokite). As late as Winter 2008, I occasionally shot Arkanor rocks.

Am I therefore a "miner" eligible to participate in this campaign of Apostle-Approved™ hi-sec ganking?

If not, please make the qualifications explicit for the benefit of all.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#126 - 2011-10-25 12:40:50 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

If there is an eve-wide mineral shortage, why on earth would we throw away a strategic advantage by supplying minerls to our enemies?

PS, your estimate of nullsec population is out by a couple of orders of magnitude.

Malc. The 2 holes at the top of your head must be used first.

That's what I said...

And as for my "estimate", it's EXACTLY what I'd expect you to do. That's what I am HOPING for.


You'd expect me to point out that tens of thousands of players live in 0.0? If not, then I'm confused.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2011-10-25 12:48:19 UTC
the only way to force a change in eve online is to unsub.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#128 - 2011-10-25 14:02:20 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

If there is an eve-wide mineral shortage, why on earth would we throw away a strategic advantage by supplying minerls to our enemies?

PS, your estimate of nullsec population is out by a couple of orders of magnitude.

Malc. The 2 holes at the top of your head must be used first.

That's what I said...

And as for my "estimate", it's EXACTLY what I'd expect you to do. That's what I am HOPING for.


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

No but seriously, why isogen over something else like mexallon?
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#129 - 2011-10-25 14:32:34 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:


YES MINERS! STOP SUICIDE GANKERS BY SUICIDE GANKING!

I endorse this product and or service..

Try reading the posts before you start shouting.

You might just have a reason not to say anything at all.



But then I wouldn't be able to hear the sound of my own voice, and I would be sad Sad

But seriously, I don't understand why you are against Insurance payouts for gankers. When does it stop? Will you be calling for no insurance for pirates that engage under gate guns next? Or insurance payouts in null because really, what insurance company would insure a car that hangs out in the space version of Papua New Guinnea?

Dissagree with WHY you want miners to suicide gank, but endorse any act of suicide ganking Big smile

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#130 - 2011-10-25 14:39:01 UTC
Bad plan. Are you getting so lazy you want the miners to start ganking themselves now?

The embargo would be fun to see happen, but since only a tiny percentage of players read the forums it would never work. In addition, since players have no apparent willpower when it comes to not selling out for ISK at every turn, it would fall apart as soon as one player sold their tritanium stash.

I like the idea, but you are asking EvE players to be disciplined....LOL.
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2011-10-25 16:58:48 UTC
The Apostle wrote:

And dont get me wrong. I may think that this whole idea is stupid and ridiculous, but i still think it will be funny to see what you will be able to do. Just for the kicks, just to see what happens. Thats why we play the game, right?

Highsec miners outnumber G**ns currently doing ice interdiction ops. I know, I went and counted you G**ns today. And that same trip to Gallente ice today also showed the effectiveness of your campaign.
.[/quote]

Not at all shocking that you don't understand how statistics and sample sizes work.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#132 - 2011-10-25 17:04:33 UTC
So how is the revolution going?
Veronica Kerrigan
Surgically Constructed L Feminist
#133 - 2011-10-25 21:37:01 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Veronica Kerrigan wrote:
So wait, you are advocating something that would make the Drone Russians even more money than they already are. Makes perfect sense to me...

Bingo.

They got it anyway. They got vast wealth anyway. We can't stop them.

So let's **** over the ones who haven't got it.

Make THEM vulnerable. Watch the change.


So wait, I want to make sure I have this correct. You are doing something to make the most powerful group of the players even more powerful than they already are? Seems rather counter intuitive to make the PvPers you are trying to "teach a lesson" also be the only people with enough isogen to continue doing what they are doing uninterupted.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#134 - 2011-10-25 21:51:10 UTC
ATTENTION ALL MINERS -

If you die to a suicide ganker, its your own fault.

You have a directional scanner - you click it, and it tells you who is nearby. If you're in a belt, there should not be Brutix's nearby, or thrasher gangs.

If you're mining, stay aligned. If you see stuff on close range scan, just WARP OUT.

This is a simple method, no CCP fix needed, no goon removal needed.

For Chribba's sake, simply warp the eff out if attackers are warping to you. It's that simple - no yiffs, aunts,or butts.

This technique is 100% foolproof - there is no excuse for you to die to a suicide attack unless you are too lazy to use your scanner.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#135 - 2011-10-25 21:55:03 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
ATTENTION ALL MINERS -

If you die to a suicide ganker, its your own fault.

You have a directional scanner - you click it, and it tells you who is nearby. If you're in a belt, there should not be Brutix's nearby, or thrasher gangs.

If you're mining, stay aligned. If you see stuff on close range scan, just WARP OUT.

This is a simple method, no CCP fix needed, no goon removal needed.

For Chribba's sake, simply warp the eff out if attackers are warping to you. It's that simple - no yiffs, aunts,or butts.

This technique is 100% foolproof - there is no excuse for you to die to a suicide attack unless you are too lazy to use your scanner.


QFT, you can also do something as daunting as add known gankers to your contacts with negative standings, if you see a local spike of known gankers it's time to gtfo and can get you out before the scanner even tells you they are on you.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#136 - 2011-10-25 22:04:01 UTC
Diomedes Calypso wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Why does everyone say grow some balls?

Seriously ever had them and get kicked by them. they hurt.

Grow what the girls have, at least that thing takes a pounding. :P

Now onto your slight problem

Do you know what would happen if miners stopped mining rocks?
TBH about nothing major almost.
As one to put it, the worst problem with miners that they're competing against those who mine with thier guns.



I don't understand why people couldn't just go into a post apocolptic mode for a month or two and play the game in an entirely different way.. wouldn't that be exciting as heck to have ablsolutely everything turned askew until new solutions were sorted out... perhaps broad player coalitions creating safe pockets etc.


Shocked

"Who runs Bartertown?" Lol

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#137 - 2011-10-25 22:07:05 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
ATTENTION ALL MINERS -

If you die to a suicide ganker, its your own fault.

You have a directional scanner - you click it, and it tells you who is nearby. If you're in a belt, there should not be Brutix's nearby, or thrasher gangs.

If you're mining, stay aligned. If you see stuff on close range scan, just WARP OUT.

This is a simple method, no CCP fix needed, no goon removal needed.

For Chribba's sake, simply warp the eff out if attackers are warping to you. It's that simple - no yiffs, aunts,or butts.

This technique is 100% foolproof - there is no excuse for you to die to a suicide attack unless you are too lazy to use your scanner.


The gaping hole in your logic is the assumption the miner is at his computer while mining. Mining is the "I want to make my isk the way I train my skills" profession.

Also, much as I would like to see a unified effort just because conflict makes a game more fun, those who are plugging away in highsec in NPC corps are doing so precisely because they DON'T want to interact with the greater community. And most miners are just alts anyway. You don't hear "I'm a miner" as much as you hear" I have a miner."
Rawls Canardly
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2011-10-25 22:16:50 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#139 - 2011-10-25 23:24:39 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
FORCE THE CHANGE

Stop whining. Stop crying. Stop giving gankers the pleasure. Stop making posts about how bad people are.

Use the same game mechanics you're losing to, grow some balls and start a supply embargo.

Effective start date - 1 November.

Follow these 3 steps.

1) Buy up Isogen in every station with every ISK you have.
2) Stop Mining.
3) Actively gank ANY miner/hauler that works against the embargo.

Pass it on. I will personally be visiting as many systems as possible over the next few days linking this post. MAKE it happen.

NO MORE CRYING ABOUT IT.

Word of advice. DO NOT respond to the trolls in this post. Let them play their childish games - among themselves.

OBJECTIVE: If CCP have NOT made changes to industrial suicide ganking by the New Year, unsub and state 1 reason only - Suicide ganking.

Game on....

EDITS:
G&&ns will be assisting in this campaign. USE this...
We stand to lose nothing. We fail, the status quo remains. Stay the course.




Honestly, if all of the miners formed a union of sorts, they can wage an economic war of such impact that supers in high sec and no concord could barely match.

Trouble is, there's always that type who will think it's their open door to mine some more, and the bots which are basically machines.

Unions have a lot of clout because they do attack picket busters. So miners who strike and go ganking other miners who don't honor the strike would have an effect.

If that can be pulled off, it would be a game changer.

I would recommend that it not be done via an in-game alliance. Perhaps a more "goon like" method of basing the organization outside of the game?

I best stock up on ammo now...

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#140 - 2011-10-25 23:29:55 UTC
Red Templar wrote:
So, do i understand correctly, that you want to fight suicide ganking and force CCP to remove it, but actively using suicide ganking anyone who isnt greeing with your policy? Wait... wha?

I think you should fight against real life suicide by committing real life suicide. You know. Just to show your devotion to the CAUSE! This way entire world would benefit from your *wisdom* not just some game. Idea



OW! My brain!!

Bring back DEEEEP Space!