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PvP Question From a New Player
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Karl Hobb

Imperial Margarine

Likes received: 2,206

#21 - 2013-02-05 21:42:52 UTC

silens vesica wrote:

Also, even when chasing, don't approach your target directly. In doing so, you played to his strengths and reduced your angular velocity relative to him == more 'boom' goes into your hull, less gets lost in space.

Spread out a bit. Aim your ship at an angle to his path. If he turns and directly runs at you, evade. He's confident he can take you, and has something nasty with your name on it. Don't reverse, take an angle to his course. Don't hit 'orbit' until you're close to your optimal orbit range. If you're kiting, make sure you're keeping your AB or MWD pulsing, don't autorun it if you can avoid it.

Know which of you is going to web, and which is going to scram. Know which of you is going in close, and which is kiting - Or know if you're both going to web/scram, and whether you're both going for his throat, or are kiting.

Put yourself in your foes' shoes - what would you do if bounced by a pair like you? Prepare a counter (or multiple counters, if you can). Initially, you're going to make mistakes. Study your mistakes. Learn from them.

****, this is complicated! Usually I just slap "Approach", hit the MWD, and go in blasters blazing!

OP, you can learn a lot from this guy.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Ranger 1

Ranger Corp

Vae. Victis.

Likes received: 6,345

#22 - 2013-02-05 21:50:17 UTC

Karl Hobb wrote:

silens vesica wrote:

****, this is complicated! Usually I just slap "Approach", hit the MWD, and go in blasters blazing!

OP, you can learn a lot from this guy.

Hey, that works fine with blasters... just as long as you are confident you can take him down before he kills you... whether because you have friends shooting too or simply suspect you have a better tank.

For autocannons though, not so much.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Karl Hobb

Imperial Margarine

Likes received: 2,206

#23 - 2013-02-05 22:08:42 UTC

Ranger 1 wrote:

The best part about flying blaster boats is you don't have to remember to turn off your MWD because your opponent usually does it for you.

One of my favorite fights was against a Tusker running a kiting setup. A buddy and I had AB frigates (him in a dual-rep Incursus, me in a slow-ass plated Enyo) and the Tusker had just popped our kiting point guy before turning his eyes on us. He proceeds to nickle and dime us for the next few minutes while we try to get him in a pincer, but he keep slipping out. Eventually, I proclaimed our defeat and warped out at half armor, which actually gave my buddy the opportunity to scram the guy because he made a mistake and drove head-on into him. It was pretty much all downhill from there for our friend.

Anyway, point being that a lot of things can happen in EVE combat, and sometimes you might find that technical flying can be overcome by sheer endurance and patience. Sometimes, though, you just blow up.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Rusef Book

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 27

#24 - 2013-02-05 23:23:07 UTC

Thanks for all the help everyone. I really appreciate the help.

I'll our fits for our slashers, as they were exactly the same:

3x 150mm Light AutoCannon II
1x 5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

1x X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
1x Medium Ancillary Shiel Booster
1x 1MN Afterburner II
1x J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

1x Overdrive Injector System II
1x Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

2x Small Projectile Metastais Adjuster I
1x Small Projectile Burst Aerator I

Cap Booster x7
Republic Fleet EMP S
Republic Fleet Fusion S

Side note... I don't actually have enough CPU to use the Infectious Power System Malfunction so that was offline.

Barrogh Habalu

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 1,144

#25 - 2013-02-06 10:43:22 UTC | Edited by: Barrogh Habalu

Rusef Book wrote:

Before entering the fight I check the market and the price for the Hook was the exact same as the Slasher (If not slightly cheaper).

While not really important with regards to your main question, I must say that this bit puzzled me.
Slasher hull costs about 300k, Hookbill is about 11mil...

Well, unless Slashers are really expensive at your place

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become

silens vesica

Corsair Cartel

Likes received: 3,128

#26 - 2013-02-06 14:31:21 UTC | Edited by: silens vesica

Karl Hobb wrote:

****, this is complicated! Usually I just slap "Approach", hit the MWD, and go in blasters blazing!

OP, you can learn a lot from this guy.

I'm no genius, I've just gotten my nose bloodied a few times. Blink

Rusef Book wrote:

Not too shabby, for a Slasher. You went to Battleclinic, didn't you? Lol

The real issues here are tactics and experience. You seem well on your way to solving both those. Carry on smartly! Cool

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

E-2C Hawkeye

HOW to PEG SAFETY

Likes received: 706

#27 - 2013-02-06 14:37:12 UTC | Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye

Rusef Book wrote:

Hey guys, So I've been playing EVE for about 2 months now with my brother (We both started at the same time). We've been doing our best to get into pvp and have been met with nothing but death after death. This is fine with us, however, as we take each loss as a learning experience. Yesterday we finally got our first kill. It was vs a Tristan and, obviously, wasn't even a real fight. But hey, I'll take it. Anyway after this kill we were feeling good about our abilities to scan and track easy targets when we came across a Caldari Navy Hookbill. I was a bit worried that it was a Navy issue ship and, thus, may be slightly more powerful than our slashers, but i'll take a 2v1 frigate battle any day. We started the fight from 300km out. Having Slashers with good afterburners we were able to run the Hook down after a few minutes. It was at this time that he turned and headed straight for me. I attempted to turn around and kite him back towards my brother and it was at this time that everyone engaged. In less than 10 seconds my Slasher went, "POP" and my brother only got the Hook down to 1/2 shields before he eventually met his inevitable demise. My question to you guys is.... How the hell did this happen? how can a tier 1 frig hold such an advantage over other tier 1 frigs? We had him outnumbered and still never even stood a chance. It's been bothering me ever since I logged off last night. Any light you could shed on this would be greatly appreciated. TL;DR How the hell can a Caldari Navy Hookbill dispatch 2 slashers in less than 30 seconds!?

First congratz on getting out there and doing what some vetern players wont. Most worry with kill boards and kill to death ratio BS and miss out on the fun of pvp. They wont undock unless they have a bigger blob. So my hats off to you sir and your brother.

This game isint always just about who has the most people. I hope you were able to learn a valuble lesson with this engament also. What you should have learned here based off your description is even though you had the numbers, the hook bill had the better ship guns and equipment but most important also had the better skill points and he took advantage of your youth. Nothing you can do about the SP just keep training the core skills and dont stop pvping. Yes you will loose but what you gain in exsperience far out weighs the losses. If you continue to pvp and train by the time you get decent SP you will have a huge advantage over these people worried over killboards and death ratios.

Your enemy had a better ship and probably a better pilot in that ship that made all his equipment better then yours.

You can overcome these disadvatages. Most frig fights last less then 10 sec on average. Never aproach or kite a superior ship head on. This will never end well, aproach or run away at an angle so his tracking has a harder time hitting you. Join something like red vs blue they teach these tactics and use frigs only. Dont give up and in the end you will be far ahead of many veterns.

Good luck

H.Shocker

Corey Fumimasa

CFM Salvage

Likes received: 1,047

#28 - 2013-02-06 20:36:39 UTC

+1 on H.Shokker's thread there ---^

The power of advanced ships, modules, implants, SP's, and real skill are multiplicative. Meaning that guy wasn't 2 or 3 times better than you, he was 8 or 12 times better. This thread;

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2496379#post2496379

sort of peels away some of the onion if you want to see more. But you don't need to, just keep at it, you will eventually figure out when your the fox and when the hound.

Welcome to Eve.

Rusef Book

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 27

#29 - 2013-02-07 19:35:03 UTC

silens vesica wrote:

Karl Hobb wrote:

****, this is complicated! Usually I just slap "Approach", hit the MWD, and go in blasters blazing!

OP, you can learn a lot from this guy.

I'm no genius, I've just gotten my nose bloodied a few times. Blink

Rusef Book wrote:

Not too shabby, for a Slasher. You went to Battleclinic, didn't you? Lol

Actually no I didn't go to Battleclinic. I got this fit from one of my corpmates after he LOL'd at my Incursus fit. ;-)

Master Tarn

Keeping Up Appearances

Likes received: 16

#30 - 2013-02-07 20:48:46 UTC | Edited by: Master Tarn

well done first off all.

Most has been said, i'll add my 2 cents. To start off, study your ship, think of what your ship is meant to be good at. What are it's strengths, what are it's weaknesses. Resist levels have been mentioned. Speed, signature radius, agility. These all help in negating incoming damage . The ship bonus is your starting point . From the role you can deduct a play style/flying style. Don't use a logistics frigate for tackle, don't kite with a brawler.

You've now got an idea of what your ship is capable off and good at, cross every module and playstyle that doesn't support that of your list. Support the boat , add gear to it that enhances it's strengths and/or decreases it's weaknesses.
Make a fast ship faster, make a tank tank better, it's strengths are it's defense. Speed keeps ships from tracking you well. No need to tank it, thats valuable slots wasted. 90% off the battle happens in the mind, study the ship, it has lots to tell you.

Then name it appropriately and affectionately :)

Now you need to fly it well. You know what your new boat is supposed to do, support it with your flying style.
Don't sit still in fast ships, don't try to kite flying a sluggish brawler. Transversal has been mentioned. Don't approach an enemy ship head on in a fast 'speed-tanking' ship. A sideway movement while burning towards a ship is, for your opponent, like trying to hit a row of moving ducks at the carnival. If they moved towards you or away from you without a sideway movement you'd have a lot of teddy bears. They move sideways.

Last but definitely not least, know what you are aggressing. Knowing your own ship and supporting it with the right gear and flying style won't help at all if you encounter a ship designed to be the better of that. Know yourself, know your enemy. You can make an educated guess at his fit (again based on the ships bonuses & strengths) and his role. Don't get caught by a ship designed to catch you and brawl you down. Don't try to kite a ship you can never outrun.
Most fights you will win are those where you set the terms and the pace.

For tactics, about transversal flying, splitting aggression using gates, isolating targets from groups, splitting up (like this faction frigate pilot did to you guys) etc. find streamers and watch pvp videos with commentating.

Then DO it.. balls deep and grinning broadly.

silens vesica

Corsair Cartel

Likes received: 3,128

#31 - 2013-02-07 22:57:13 UTC | Edited by: silens vesica

Rusef Book wrote:

Actually no I didn't go to Battleclinic. I got this fit from one of my corpmates after he LOL'd at my Incursus fit. ;-)

Good on your corpies, then. :)
That build almost precisely mirrors a highly-rated build posted on Battleclinic, save you swapped in a web for TD.

Obviously, I mostly fly Calderi ships, but I'de done my time in a Rifter. The Slasher build you've got there is about as good as a Slasher can get, but you can do better. Upgrade. Buy a STACK of 'em. Prepare to watch every one of 'em burn. Doesn't matter, so long as you're learning and having fun.
It's all just photons in the end. Make 'em dance to your tune.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Not Politically Correct

Doomheim

Likes received: 251

#32 - 2013-02-08 00:29:41 UTC | Edited by: Not Politically Correct

Rusef Book wrote:

Xercodo wrote:

You took on a combat frigate with an attack frigate.

You MIGHT have stood a chance had you both been in rifters with heavies tanks.

Thanks for this....

I did not know there was a difference in T1 Frigs.

So I guess the new question is; Are Slashers good frigs for a new player to get into PvP with? If not, what would you recommend?

I've seen a single Rifter kill a Machariel. Match your ship to your opponent's and you will win 10% of the time. Match your ship and your skills to the opponent's and you have a 50% chance.

EDIT: Let me clarify. If you get stupid with a ship that is either larger or smaller than your's, you will probably be collecting insurance soon afterwards.

Why bother? Some of these people have been playing for nearly 10 years, and have the skills to show for it. I'm sure there are several people in the game who could beat a Slasher with a rookie ship.

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