These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

! DEPRECATED -- Winter Expansion: Crucible SUMMARY (Updated 11/9)

First post
Author
Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#41 - 2011-10-23 08:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
non judgement wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
If they do decide to go with guns I will be interested too. Not perfectly happy, but interested. I'd like to see an outright shield/blasterdps platform.


A Ferox?

A ferox with LARGE blasters and an actual damage bonus. And shields. Think of it.

Edit: I'd still rather torpedoes. And a TP bonus plzthx.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#42 - 2011-10-25 21:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Summarized from this change log, which has been confirmed as real but subject to change by CCP Konflikt.



Ship changes:

Dramiel is being nerfed in powergrid, cpu, scan resolution, velocity, and mass (which affects agility and bonuses from propulsion modules)

Hybrid ship changes announced (good news! they ARE becoming MORE agile after all)

Supercapitals are undergoing the already-discussed changes

Destroyers no longer have a rate of fire penalty. This means they now have 33 percent more damage output.
Destroyers are gaining 10 percent HP
Destroyers will have their signature radius decreased by 25 percent
Destroyers will have 25 percent more capacitor

All logistics now warp at 3.75AU/s, the same speed as HACs
Oneiros is losing a mid slot and gaining a low slot
Oneiros is having its signature radius reduced from 70 to 60
Oneiros is gaining 200 powergrid output and 7.5 percent velocity





Weapon changes:

Hybrid weapon changes announced

T2 ammunition changes announced


Ship velocity penalties have been removed from Javelin and Precision T2 missiles
Ship signature radius penalties have been removed from Rage and Fury T2 missiles





Module changes:

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power cores now give 13 powergrid instead of 12

Drone Navigation Computer I now increase mining drone speed too

Most officer reactor controls have been boosted





New ships:

Third tier battlecruisers are being added. They have approximately half the HP of first tier battlecruisers with no tanking bonus, and do the same DPS as third tier battleships with some bonuses to applying damage effectively.
Only the Gallente 3T battlecruiser, the Talos, has a drone bay

These numbers have changed

Amarr - Oracle
8 highs, 3 mids, 6 lows
8 turrets, 0 launchers
No drones
Role bonuses to fitting and capacitor usage for large laser turrets
Range (7.5/lv) and tracking speed (7.5/lv) bonuses to large laser turrets
33 percent faster and 9 percent lighter than the Prophecy and Harbinger

Caldari - Naga
8 highs, 6 mids, 4 lows (one more slot than any other)
8 turrets, 8 launchers (holy crap)
No drones
Role bonuses to fitting and capacitor usage for large hybrid turrets and siege launchers (torpedoes)
Range (10/lv) and tracking speed (7.5/lv) bonuses to large hybrid turrets, and torpedo velocity (10/lv) and explosion-velocity (5/lv)
39 percent faster and 11 percent lighter than the Ferox and Drake

Gallente - Talos
8 highs, 4 mids, 5 lows
8 turrets, 0 launchers
25 drone bay, 25 drone bandwidth
Role bonuses to fitting and capacitor usage for large hybrid turrets
Bonuses to damage of large hybrid turrets (5/lv) and stasis webifier effectiveness (10/lv)
45 percent faster and 9.5 percent lighter than the (current) Brutix and Myrmidon

Minmatar - Tornado
8 highs, 5 mids, 4 lows
8 turrets, 0 launchers
No drones
Role bonuses to fitting for large projectile turrets
Bonuses to rate of fire (-5/lv) and falloff (10/lv) of large projectile turrets
36 percent faster and 6 percent lighter than the Cyclone and Hurricane




New modules: All new T2 modules require level 5 skills

T2 leadership links for all 4 warfare types and mining
10 percent more CPU required, 5 percent more powergrid required, and 0.5 percent more base command bonus compared to the T1 version

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Requires 20 percent more CPU (18 over 15) and 20 percent more effective (+12 powergrid output over +10)

T2 probe launchers
Require more CPU (20 for core, 242 for expanded)
Scan strength bonus

Siege Module II
10 percent more CPU required, 5 percent more powergrid required
20 percent larger damage bonus -- 840 percent compared to 700 percent on the T1 module
3 targets instead of 2, and 20 percent more scan resolution when in siege compared to the T1

Triage Module II
10 percent more CPu required, 5 percent more powergrid required
Gives 1 more target while in triage, 10 percent more scan resolution, and a 20 percent bonus to targeting range compared to the T1

T2 remote hull repair systems
That's nice, nobody will really use these

Drone Navigation Computer II
Requires 35 CPU instead of 30
Gives 30N MWD thrust bonus instead of 25N

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Exactly the same as the Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Computer is now
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Computer now requires 36 CPU instead of 39

Drone Link Augmentor II
Requires 10 percent more CPU
Gives 20 percent more drone control range compared to T1

T2 tractor beams
Requires more cpu (10 percent more for capital, 25 percent more for small)
Tractors 20 percent further and 20 percent faster

Bomb Launcher II
Requires 10 percent more CPU
Has 101.25 second reactivation delay with skills applied, compared to 120 seconds on the T1

Warp Disruption Field Generator II
Requires 10 percent more CPU and 5 percent more powergrid
Disrupts and bubbles 20 percent farther -- with Heavy Interdictors 5, bubbles in a 24km radius and points 36km with Focused Warp Disruption script

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#43 - 2011-10-25 22:16:26 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
From the looks of it, the Tornado will have 6 turrets -- probably with a rate of fire bonus, not a damage bonus -- so chances are it won't have super great alpha. A Brutix or autocannon Hurricane will probably still be able to do more damage in a single gank.


I officially eat my words. Also, these new ships are awesome.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#44 - 2011-10-26 03:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
(Note: CCP has since removed the web bonus from the Talos in their test data, replacing it with a tracking bonus)

CCP, in response to the web strength bonuses of the Talos (10 percent per level yielding 90 percent webs), I would like to admonish you if I may. There are already a lot of ships that have 90-webs, and the fact that the Talos is getting them makes it immensely powerful against smaller ships, even frigates.

Unlike comparison to the other 3T battlecruisers, the Talos have the ability to web anything down until it is slow enough to hit, making it practically invulnerable to attacking frigates. The others will have immense difficulty with this, and can be easily tackled by a wily assault ship pilot, but it would be sheer suicide to go up against a Talos in anything that cannot kill it outright.

And if this were not enough, it has a flight of light drones to boot.

I strongly urge you to consider changing the bonus to something between 5 percent (yielding 75 percent webs), and 7 percent (yielding 81 percent webs); this would yield something interesting and new, a happy medium. Indeed, I believe that a lot of blaster ships (thorax, hyperion) would look well with a 5 percent per level bonus to web strength. But with two 90-webs (which slow the target to 2.2 percent of its original speed), any frigate can be easily slowed to the point where large weapons will rapidly demolish it, and cruisers have no choice but to go head-to-head at whatever range the Talos desires. This is a dynamic that is rightfully lacking in the other 3 ships.

Introducing the ability to wantonly chuck about a cheap disposable ship with 90-webs while laughing at the pilots of other races' ships seems wrong. Don't misunderstand me, I will buy and fly and enjoy all 4 of them, but I don't want to spend all my time in the Talos simply because it can protect itself solo so well. I'd much rather have a less capable ship that is good to fly but doesn't completely outstrip others when it comes time to fight against it yourself.

This is a great design, and I know it is preliminary; I'm hoping to see numerous refinements. What I am seeing so far is merely a great lineup of ships that is broken up by this huge bump that will make the Talos immensely more capable relative to its kin.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#45 - 2011-10-26 03:42:40 UTC
Quote:

Time dialation: Maybe not so much lag now (lol lag is becoming a feature ♥)


Is that funny to anyone else?

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?

Daquaris
People of the Saiya
Silent Company
#46 - 2011-10-26 04:36:13 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
If they do decide to go with guns I will be interested too. Not perfectly happy, but interested. I'd like to see an outright shield/blasterdps platform.


A Ferox?

A ferox with LARGE blasters and an actual damage bonus. And shields. Think of it.

Edit: I'd still rather torpedoes. And a TP bonus plzthx.


I'll take it...
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-10-26 04:37:02 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:

I strongly urge you to consider changing the bonus to something between 5 percent (yielding 75 percent webs), and 7 percent (yielding 81 percent webs); this would yield something interesting and new, a happy medium. Indeed, I believe that a lot of blaster ships (thorax, hyperion) would look well with a 5 percent per level bonus to web strength. But with two 90-webs (which slow the target to 2.2 percent of its original speed), any frigate can be easily slowed to the point where large weapons will rapidly demolish it, and cruisers have no choice but to go head-to-head at whatever range the Talos desires. This is a dynamic that is rightfully lacking in the other 3 ships.

take a look at the cal one. that will have a fairly easy time when using dual webs as well thanks to the tracking bonus.
Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#48 - 2011-10-26 04:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
leviticus ander wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:

I strongly urge you to consider changing the bonus to something between 5 percent (yielding 75 percent webs), and 7 percent (yielding 81 percent webs); this would yield something interesting and new, a happy medium. Indeed, I believe that a lot of blaster ships (thorax, hyperion) would look well with a 5 percent per level bonus to web strength. But with two 90-webs (which slow the target to 2.2 percent of its original speed), any frigate can be easily slowed to the point where large weapons will rapidly demolish it, and cruisers have no choice but to go head-to-head at whatever range the Talos desires. This is a dynamic that is rightfully lacking in the other 3 ships.

take a look at the cal one. that will have a fairly easy time when using dual webs as well thanks to the tracking bonus.


Against an afterburning frigate? No. You're still hosed.

The Talos on the other hand, with two 90-webs, would hit it easily.

A 37.5 percent tracking bonus, a 1.38x improvement does not match up to the difference between dual webs (which reduce the target to 19.2 percent original speed) and dual 90-webs (which reduce the target to 2.2 percent original speed). That is, if a frigate and a cruiser go about the same speed, the Talos can track the frigate quite a bit better than the Naga can track the cruiser.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#49 - 2011-10-26 05:19:43 UTC
Great Job OP keep it up. and keep us posted.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Epiphaniess
Verboten Technologies
#50 - 2011-10-26 05:46:58 UTC
Looks like the Tornado is going to be the least impressive of them all.

The Naga being able to choose between hybrids or torpedos is going to be really nice. And having an 18 slots instead of the 17.
With 6 mids and 4 lows going to be able to field a decent tank and gank for the class, and have a few mids to spare for tackle, along with the tracking bonuses it is going to have a nice range of ships it can take on.

The Talos is going to be a beast, with the web and damage bonus, drones. Hybrid super buff that looks to be coming along. It looks like it is going to be one scary ship. Everything is not going to want to run into one in a dark alleyway, frigs, cruisers, other BCs.

I feel kind of bad for the Oracle and the Tornado.
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-10-26 06:12:05 UTC
The new ships looks interesting..
Hm, but what about skills, do we have to train a few years to be able to fly them?
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#52 - 2011-10-26 06:20:26 UTC
Nyio wrote:
The new ships looks interesting..
Hm, but what about skills, do we have to train a few years to be able to fly them?

With too low skill req it will be overpowered for throwaway suidice alts...

Nyan

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#53 - 2011-10-26 06:21:49 UTC
Good info OP thanks

Im not sure about tornado it does look like most nerfed of them all all ships gain tracking bonus so they can attempt to deal with small stuff bar gall one that have drones and webs that gonna make it very effective.

new drake have tracking or missiles so no problem there.

So i think amarr onhe will suck but tornado will be dead on arrival...comparing to other ships that is... eft numbers will be ok to look at.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Comy 1
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2011-10-26 06:30:08 UTC
  • Warp Disrupt Probe
  • [-|n] torpedoLaunching
    [+|n] torpedoLaunchingIsOffensive

    Is this a change that makes launching a bubble counting as agression (to prevent a dictor from bubble both sides of a gate) or just a rename of a variable?
    Nyio
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #55 - 2011-10-26 06:33:48 UTC
    Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
    Nyio wrote:
    The new ships looks interesting..
    Hm, but what about skills, do we have to train a few years to be able to fly them?

    With too low skill req it will be overpowered for throwaway suidice alts...


    That may be so, but I think you missed my point and also didn't answer my question. P
    Jade Constantine
    Jericho Fraction
    The Star Fraction
    #56 - 2011-10-26 07:08:40 UTC
    David Grogan wrote:
    Iam Widdershins wrote:

    You'd best be trolling. Suicide ganking doesn't have a very large effect on miner subscription rate, nor could suicide ganking become that prevalent, nor will the new ships necessarily be any better for suiciding. If anything they will be about as effective but cost significantly more.


    bullcrap........... for one thing and even by goon's own admission the new tier 3 bc will be way better to suicide gank in.
    why?
    1. less cost than a bs yet same dps (tank doesnt matter a **** for suicide gankers)
    2. it will fit inside an orca so easy to warp a nuetral orca on top of a miner along with the suicide ganker in a pod and pull the tier3 bc out and gank the miner
    3. a bc locks alot faster than a bs does
    4. a bc moves alot faster than a bs does

    look at how many miners are mining in gallente and caldari space right now...............a lot lot less than it was before goons started the ganking



    Good heavens. In this game I play Jade Constantine the heroic NRDS freespacer who supports free trade and open commerce and doesn't fire first against neutrals in space. Out of game I'm not a great fan of Goons either.

    But all this endless whining about the fact your spaceship can be blown up in a single-server pvp game makes ME want to get into a bloody suicide boat and terminate your barge.

    Thats how annoying you are!

    The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

    Jade Constantine
    Jericho Fraction
    The Star Fraction
    #57 - 2011-10-26 07:14:47 UTC
    Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
    CCP Navigator wrote:
    Iam Widdershins wrote:
    Here is a brief topical summary of upcoming changes CCP has announced or mentioned in the past few months:


    Mechanical changes:

    1. New ships: 3rd tier battlecruisers with oversized guns, with the first significant (read: non-supercap) new combat ship hull models added to the game since 3rd tier BATTLESHIPS back in Revelations I in late 2006 (even before overheating!)

    2. New T2 modules (specifics unannounced!)

    3. Adjustments to Assault Frigate bonuses and hybrid weapons

    4. Adjustments and balancing to capitals and super-capitals (exact changes to fighter drones seem not to be set in stone)

    5. Time dialation: Maybe not so much lag now (lol lag is becoming a feature ♥)

    6. Something about starbase logistics management (specifics unannounced!)

    7. Something with Faction Warfare (specifics unannounced!)

    8. Something with new EWAR drones (specifics unannounced!)

    9. Something about T2 rigs manufacturing (specifics unannounced! possibly t1->t2 salvage conversion)

    10. Player-deployed Customs Offices for P.I.

    11. Possibly more ongoing changes coming to Nullsec and sovereignty dynamics (as discussed in August), possibly related to #6


    Cosmetic & Metagame changes:

    12. Implants on pod killmails

    13. *Ship Spinning(*already out!)

    14. New font

    15. New nebulae backgrounds

    16. New captains' quarters, one for each race now

    17. The glorious return of Engine Trails!

    18. Some petition changes (categories for Stuck Character, additional details to be announced)



    I don't know about you guys, but I look forward to reading text clearly, while looking at engine trails streaming behind my torpedo-Drake in front of a gorgeous new background, while blowing up pods and customs offices in slow motion.


    15. New nebulae backgrounds

    17. The glorious return of Engine Trails!

    As per this post, the above quoted parts are in development. We will conduct extensive perfromance testing to ensure that these two assets do not add extra strain to players computers.

    Expect new Community 'In Development' video blogs with more info in the coming weeks Smile



    CCP,

    You guys are trying really hard to make us happy.

    We like this, tell your bosses. Keep it up.

    At this rate, I might actually re-up my account before it runs out of time.

    With apprehensive and cautious optimism,

    Alia



    It is a definite (and absolutely vital) improvement certainly. And I hope it is just the tip of the iceburg in terms of the core eve content CCP will be delivering next year. But everyone does need to realize this is still a fraction of the content of the Exodus patch from the early years http://www.eveonline.com/features/exodus/ and so lets not get carried away (yet).

    Full respect to the hard-working developers and CCP rank and file and fingers crossed that the senior management give you guys the resources and support you need to truly get back to regular content-rich expansions for the next several years.

    The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

    Iam Widdershins
    Victory or Whatever
    #58 - 2011-10-26 16:05:25 UTC
    Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
    Nyio wrote:
    The new ships looks interesting..
    Hm, but what about skills, do we have to train a few years to be able to fly them?

    With too low skill req it will be overpowered for throwaway suidice alts...

    The skill requirement is already known: Racial Cruiser level 3, Battlecruiser level 3. Stop whining about suiciders and get better.



    Mina Sebiestar wrote:
    Good info OP thanks

    Im not sure about tornado it does look like most nerfed of them all all ships gain tracking bonus so they can attempt to deal with small stuff bar gall one that have drones and webs that gonna make it very effective.

    new drake have tracking or missiles so no problem there.

    So i think amarr onhe will suck but tornado will be dead on arrival...comparing to other ships that is... eft numbers will be ok to look at.

    On the contrary, the Tornado will have approximately the same damage output as a Vargur, but with more maneuverability: think of it as the poor man's Machariel. And the Tachyon Oracle will provide massive, impressive DPS at awesome ranges just like the Tachpoc does (plus a 37.5 percent tracking bonus). Like, we are talking about supporting with 800 dps from 60km and excellent tracking.

    The Naga will indeed be some kind of evil hybrid of a torpedo Raven and a Navy Osprey, but still my major concern is the ridiculous power level of the Talos. Whereas the other ships need to run around at least in pairs to be effective against, say, two AFs ans a HAC, the Talos should have very little difficulty all on its own. I'll just fly it dual web fit until CCP figures out their mistake.

    --=--

    In other news: I'd like to congratulate all the people who spent all these years whining about how the Oneiros is such a bad ship (it isn't). I see what you were trying to do, and you have succeeded impressively. The new changes are awesome. If only they had given the Scimitar a similar boost... I would love a 4 rep scimi.

    Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

    Epiphaniess
    Verboten Technologies
    #59 - 2011-10-26 19:30:47 UTC
    The Tornado might be able to do as much damage as a Vargur. But that will mean very little when you can't hit most thinks sub BC, BS.

    Must ships flown in PVP are Sub BC, going to make it a sad ship. I would like to see them drop the rate of fire bonus and give it a web range bonus. Then it will have a better range of pray, but not be as silly OP as the Talos.
    Mina Sebiestar
    Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
    #60 - 2011-10-26 19:45:43 UTC
    as i mention in post above it will have high(EFT) dps but it cant track like varg and tank like girl,no drones and putting web on it is not gonna happen if you don't want cane to insta pop ya, so i don't know well see.... but if all other ship have bonuses to engage smaller targets i curious why tornado don't have...i am aware projectiles have good tracking but we are talking large guns here.

    You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

    Because >>I is too hard