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[Discuss] The possibility of an IPO

Author
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-02-05 15:21:55 UTC
..Ok awesome.

So here for the record. You have just said that any future production IPO will not be in the method that you outlined in your OP.

As the only contested point is the lack of locking down the BPOs for collateral. I, as well as many other investors, would fill such a bond without any other information.

Let me clear. No other point matters in an IPO like this.

So here for the record, will you, Saveritrader, agree that the next production IPO you release will be fully collateralized via locked down BPO's?
Saveritrader
Sav Trading
#42 - 2013-02-05 15:26:06 UTC
If I ever were to start up an IPO that is intended for production, I will provide sufficient security for the IPO to work. Wether that be using a 3rd party to lock up my own BPOs or use IPO money to let the 3rd party buy and hold the BPOs while I run the actual production from my own capital, that is still a point I am looking in to. Either way, a 3rd party will hold security if I ever were to set up an IPO.
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-02-05 15:32:11 UTC
..Awesome. Hear it now, Saveritrader has stated any future production IPO's will be 100% secure. Thank you Sav.
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-02-05 15:48:53 UTC
..Point of interest.

Last night I Eve-Mailed shar'ra matcevsovski and asked him if Sav had sent the APIs that he requested.

shar'ra replied and said that Sav did send his API.

shar'ra has stated that the API is no longer valid at the time of this writing.

Strange thing for Sav to do, cancel his API during an active bond.

Even stranger that Claire, an "investor" with the keys, has not brought this piece of info up, questioning Sav as to why he caned those APIs, denying him to further acces while his ISK is still at risk. I wonder why that is?

Almost like Sav and Claire are working together. And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids!
Saveritrader
Sav Trading
#45 - 2013-02-05 15:52:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Saveritrader
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..Point of interest.

Last night I Eve-Mailed shar'ra matcevsovski and asked him if Sav had sent the APIs that he requested.

shar'ra replied and said that Sav did send his API.

shar'ra has stated that the API is no longer valid at the time of this writing.

Strange thing for Sav to do, cancel his API during an active bond.

Even stranger that Claire, an "investor" with the keys, has not brought this piece of info up, questioning Sav as to why he caned those APIs, denying him to further acces while his ISK is still at risk. I wonder why that is?

Almost like Sav and Claire are working together. And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids!



That's bollocks, the API is still up to date and is set to non-expire. Ask shar'ra to forward you the mail and check for yourself.

* I also forwarded you the same mail. As you don't trust me, feel free to compare it with shar'ra and check the api for yourself.


You're bad at accusing people.
Razor Rocker
Super Mother Fan Club
#46 - 2013-02-05 16:12:42 UTC
Just posting here to confirm that I received Sav's API a couple weeks before committing any ISK, furthermore I've been following his trading via EveMentat. Received the API on 2013.01.19 at 18:43.

I understand the questioning of the security of his bond, as this is just a logical constant in the Eve universe. But I can confirm, however much my word means, that his API isn't expired or false.

Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-02-05 16:22:53 UTC
..I did get the mail that Sav posted about. It looks like I am wrong about the API in question. I still hold firm on all of my other speculations and statements.
Saveritrader
Sav Trading
#48 - 2013-02-05 16:26:06 UTC
Sure thing. It tells me enough that you wildly accuse people without any actual proof.. However, my previous point stands. This IPO won't take off without a 3rd party involved.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#49 - 2013-02-05 17:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
this Isn't even MD's final form

op got what thing right, even using a 3rd party its still just an eve player, you can sperg all you want about how your trustworthy but thats all rubbish, look at that VV white knighting these jokers. & getting butthurt when called out about it lol. im amazed you got isk in the first place (cash out now)



So, it's that time of the year, when you resub, create the upteenth "Pepridge" alt and make MD look like CAOD or GD.

Before I deal with you like I have done with the Pepridges of the past years, I'd like to point out that:

1) I don't know nor particularly care about the OP, he's one of the 2-3 guys who daily contact me about investing in them, asking for audits and whatever.

2) I don't have the time neither to audit him nor to invest in him (and in anyone else) due to my known RL current stuff. The only point where I am not totally "neutral" is that I feel for him going in the slaugtherhouse and not to be scrutinized but to be trolled = useless = I hoped other guys would have posted. A Bad Bobby or similar other informed player would have done wonders. Because in my never ending pledge to help people improve themselves, those informed players can teach others a LOT. And no, I am not telling about teaching them to scam, but how to deal with situations and how to be "ready" to deal with all forms of inquires.

3) This is a special kind of "audit" I have put him in: the test of MD vs an IPO. If he does not get mad in the least secured kind of public investment (ISK request upfront, possibly share rewards after months) then he'll be at least prepared for the next round.

4) Your (nor a portion of Syd) posts are not useful, because the real MD "investigators" are guys like Estel Arador and MMe Pinkerton / Vera / I keep forgetting the names (:pulls hairs:). The former is possibly the guy who most posted against me at every possible opportunity, but he *researched* his stuff first, he made logic rebuttals, he did some detective work. I'd have given him a 80 / 100 quality. MMe is even better, because he really does an awesome data drilling job while posting better and more constructively than me, if there was an auditor to take my place I'd vote him for sure.

Syd seems still at the "early days", a bit more work on getting factual evidence (the nastiest one to slam in a pretend-investor face, believe me!) and s/he is set.
Pepridge instead, is good for "giggles" for those who like his humor but not *useful* to an investment. And as he seem to never change, evidently he does not want to "evolve" into either an investor or a value MD partecipant.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-02-05 18:51:12 UTC
Razor Rocker wrote:
Candy Oshea wrote:
Saveritrader wrote:

I have experience through the years, though I have been hopping on and off for months on end due to school or work. However, my current schedule allows for longer periods of time in which I can play. Through the years I have been in production and wormhole activities, and I have a certain love for spreadsheets which is... beyond words.

I believe that combining my knowledge of the market with these experiences will make this IPO work.


An Existing production operation would already have, POS, multiple profitable BPO's etc.... Your OP says you need to buy it all with IPO ISK..................So, sorry if i do-not believe you & what you say about your experience. Its one thing making ammo in a station, its quite another running a pos and having to pay interest.


You make it sound like running a profitable manufacturing op is difficult. With a spreadsheet, a basic working knowledge of the game mechanics, and the tens of tools available within the community, it is rather straight forward.

However, that being said, it is a shame that he doesn't already have the BPOs in stock. Perhaps there is a way to provide a bit more security to this IPO. For instance, I know in the past that 3rd parties have offered to lock down BPOs. Perhaps if the 3rd party was given the ISK, had an alt in the CEO seat, bought the BPOs via contract and locked them down. Would this alleviate some fears of the prospective investor? The BPOs wouldn't cover the cost of the entire IPO, but it is at least something.


Using the ISK/HR program, almost nothing is profitable for manufacturing when using Jita prices for materials.

The only thing worth while is finding under-priced items and reprocessing them to sell the materials.
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-02-05 19:03:12 UTC
..Thanks for the advice Vaerah. I pretty much agree with your statements. I do like to season my posts with a healthy dash of instigation!

My goal is to find any skeletons in the closet via a swat team, rather then shinig a flashlight on them.

At any rate, your opinion has value to me.

As for pepperidge, if my memory serves me, any unsecured audit that Vaerah has performed as resulted in these select outcomes:

IPO issuer does/does not have the required skills/assets/experience/ track record to complete said IPO.

As far as I remember, the best summery from Vaerah for an unsecured loan has been - highly risky investment due to the nature of unsecured loans.

Not an ounce of selling out there.
Vurt Konne
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-02-05 19:59:24 UTC
Why do you need a POS?
Why do you intend to buy researched BPOs when you're gonna get a POS anyway?
Will you mostly be producing t1 stuff or t2?
If t2, why researched BPOs at all?
Do you intend to strike deals with Corps for constant supply on some items or will you only sell on the market?
Will you only sell in Jita/the big trade hubs, or will you also sell in mission hubs/lowsec/nullsec?
What will you do with the POS in times of war?
Saveritrader
Sav Trading
#53 - 2013-02-05 20:06:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Saveritrader
Vurt Konne wrote:
Why do you need a POS?
Why do you intend to buy researched BPOs when you're gonna get a POS anyway?
Will you mostly be producing t1 stuff or t2?
If t2, why researched BPOs at all?
Do you intend to strike deals with Corps for constant supply on some items or will you only sell on the market?
Will you only sell in Jita/the big trade hubs, or will you also sell in mission hubs/lowsec/nullsec?
What will you do with the POS in times of war?


- The POS is to profit of the 0.75% time multiplier assembly arrays offer. Logistically I will be able to manage it.

- I will be mostly producing T1, yet T2 is something I will be working towards

- I will also be providing the ships for my alliance. For the rest I will sell it on the market as it currently stands.

- I will most likely sell most in jita, while other trade hubs are a possibility as I do run a freighter around.

- In times of war the POS will be without any valuables and loaded with guns! If it goes down, the valuable stuff will be sitting in the station where I will resume production, just a bit slower.
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-02-05 20:55:02 UTC
Saveritrader wrote:


- I will be mostly producing T1, yet T2 is something I will be working towards

- I will also be providing the ships for my alliance. For the rest I will sell it on the market as it currently stands.

- In times of war the POS will be without any valuables and loaded with guns! If it goes down, the valuable stuff will be sitting in the station where I will resume production, just a bit slower.


..T2 invention/production is risky. Is this a T1 production IPO or a T2 invention/production IPO?

How much of a discount are you going to be giving you alliance? How will that affect shareholder profits?

A pilot or group of pilots that want your POS dead will get it dead. There goes 1-2b of shareholder ISK. Why wouldn't you simply take the POS down and then put it back up after the war deck?
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
#55 - 2013-02-05 21:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Claire Coffee
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..I did get the mail that Sav posted about. It looks like I am wrong about the API in question. I still hold firm on all of my other speculations and statements.


You're wrong about mostly everything in this thread.
May I suggest you going to C&P and creating a post there will all your accusations towards me and explaining your role of MD detective and how you think things will turn out for everyone doing business with me.
I think opinions of people may turn out to be useful and they might even suggest you to fit Raven differently Blink

EDIT: Oh and I'm out of here. I guess this thread served its purpose. Theory-crafting and stuff just ain't my thing.

[b]DRINK COFFEE Do stupid things Faster with More Energy[/b]

shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#56 - 2013-02-05 21:49:42 UTC
Saveritrader wrote:
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..Point of interest.

Last night I Eve-Mailed shar'ra matcevsovski and asked him if Sav had sent the APIs that he requested.

shar'ra replied and said that Sav did send his API.

shar'ra has stated that the API is no longer valid at the time of this writing.

Strange thing for Sav to do, cancel his API during an active bond.

Even stranger that Claire, an "investor" with the keys, has not brought this piece of info up, questioning Sav as to why he caned those APIs, denying him to further acces while his ISK is still at risk. I wonder why that is?

Almost like Sav and Claire are working together. And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids!



That's bollocks, the API is still up to date and is set to non-expire. Ask shar'ra to forward you the mail and check for yourself.

* I also forwarded you the same mail. As you don't trust me, feel free to compare it with shar'ra and check the api for yourself.


just for the record
Quote:

From: shar'ra matcevsovski
To: Syds Sinclair
[quote]ID: XXXXXXXX
vCode: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

however I did not have the oprtunity to check them, yet (im at home on max 5. days a month) and its way to much hassle to check it via my cellphone.


apologies, I guess the "oportunity" was a bit ambiguous here, my bad.

nonetheless I`d never tell anyone to invest in a uncollateralized bond that is not secured by trusted escrow service.

shar'ra phone home

Saveritrader
Sav Trading
#57 - 2013-02-05 22:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Saveritrader
Syds Sinclair wrote:


..T2 invention/production is risky. Is this a T1 production IPO or a T2 invention/production IPO?

How much of a discount are you going to be giving you alliance? How will that affect shareholder profits?

A pilot or group of pilots that want your POS dead will get it dead. There goes 1-2b of shareholder ISK. Why wouldn't you simply take the POS down and then put it back up after the war deck?



This would be a T1 production IPO, yet I will be training my alt to do everything regarding production so I don't exclude T2 in the future. My alliance will be given slight discount, yet the consumption is little to disregardable in all fairness.

Regarding the POS; yes, getting it down would be a much better idea. But that depends wether I will have enough time on the day itself. The POS will however never contain any more than is being produced at any given moment, so there isn't anything to gain from a wardec.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#58 - 2013-02-05 23:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerry T Pepridge
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


So, it's that time of the year, when you resub, create the upteenth "Pepridge" alt and make MD look like CAOD or GD.

Before I deal with you like I have done with the Pepridges of the past years, I'd like to point out that:

1) I don't know nor particularly care about the OP, he's one of the 2-3 guys who daily contact me about investing in them, asking for audits and whatever.


Stop talking BS, you said you spoke to the OP, the white knighted when the candy gimmick account called you out on it.

of the 2-3 conversations? you are not serious, surely you can remember who is who? are you kidding me? lmao please do share the other 2-3 guys convo's.

you were in on it, no doubt about it. your "audit" is an MD enabler.

we have argued before about this exact thing, like when you audited a few scams (enabling them) a few years back.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

2) I don't have the time neither to audit him nor to invest in him (and in anyone else) due to my known RL current stuff. The only point where I am not totally "neutral" is that I feel for him going in the slaugtherhouse and not to be scrutinized but to be trolled = useless = I hoped other guys would have posted. A Bad Bobby or similar other informed player would have done wonders. Because in my never ending pledge to help people improve themselves, those informed players can teach others a LOT. And no, I am not telling about teaching them to scam, but how to deal with situations and how to be "ready" to deal with all forms of inquires.


you don't have time to audit, but you have the time to write this wall of text. lol, Audit, its p hard to punch API keys into any number of softwares available, but no, keep your time for writing, Stupid candlestick threads where "double Shoulders" & other "words" to make you seem smarter than you are, & writing butthurt rebuttals (this wall of text is a butthurt rebuttal)

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

3) This is a special kind of "audit" I have put him in: the test of MD vs an IPO. If he does not get mad in the least secured kind of public investment (ISK request upfront, possibly share rewards after months) then he'll be at least prepared for the next round.


Great idea, make an MD hurr durr i need isk thread, that'll go down well, great advice.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

4) Your (nor a portion of Syd) posts are not useful, because the real MD "investigators" are guys like Estel Arador and MMe Pinkerton / Vera / I keep forgetting the names (:pulls hairs:). The former is possibly the guy who most posted against me at every possible opportunity, but he *researched* his stuff first, he made logic rebuttals, he did some detective work. I'd have given him a 80 / 100 quality. MMe is even better, because he really does an awesome data drilling job while posting better and more constructively than me, if there was an auditor to take my place I'd vote him for sure.


My posts, aren't meant to be useful, i like to call out scrubs for who they are & the scrubs who whiteknight for them. EDIT: i made one constructive thread, and i'm about to make another.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Syd seems still at the "early days", a bit more work on getting factual evidence (the nastiest one to slam in a pretend-investor face, believe me!) and s/he is set.
Pepridge instead, is good for "giggles" for those who like his humor but not *useful* to an investment. And as he seem to never change, evidently he does not want to "evolve" into either an investor or a value MD partecipant.


You heard it hear folks. Syds Sinclair needs work gaining facts according to this guy, yet he(VV) whiteknighted the thread after a Convo on which Facts were not Facts VV was under the assumption OP had BPO's and got called out.

don't take any advice from this guy too seriously folks.

@JerryTPepridge

Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-02-05 23:45:24 UTC
..I'll own up to shar'ra matcevsovski's post.

I didn't want to out shar'ra for giving me Sav's API. So I took that API and ran it, and it said that it was not active.

Another poster stated it was active, so I'm assuming the fault and error is mine on the part of looki g up that API.

So that one is on me.

But even still, I stand by all of my speculation and statements. I'm also glad hat I got Sav to agree on a fully secured future production IPO.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#60 - 2013-02-06 01:49:30 UTC
Only replying to what's not unrecoverable drivel:

Jerry T Pepridge wrote:

Stop talking BS, you said you spoke to the OP, the white knighted when the candy gimmick account called you out on it.

of the 2-3 conversations? you are not serious, surely you can remember who is who? are you kidding me? lmao please do share the other 2-3 guys convo's.


Every game I play for some reason people start trusting me. Then they share things with me that don't want to necessarily tell to everybody. In this case the OP told me basically what's posted here plus a little detail that makes his proposal a bit more valuable. I did not want to talk about the detail because some idiot would easily mistake it for endorsement.
Don't be that idiot.


Jerry T Pepridge wrote:

you were in on it, no doubt about it. your "audit" is an MD enabler.


Whoever believes that my comments = MD enablers, is a fool and WILL lose his money. Luckily I have yet to find anyone who believes that, except you.


Jerry T Pepridge wrote:

we have argued before about this exact thing, like when you audited a few scams (enabling them) a few years back.


Really? Any link? My website has a searchable listing of my audits and is well indexed on Google, should be fairly easiy to find them.


Jerry T Pepridge wrote:

you don't have time to audit, but you have the time to write this wall of text. lol, Audit, its p hard to punch API keys into any number of softwares available, but no, keep your time for writing, Stupid candlestick threads where "double Shoulders" & other "words" to make you seem smarter than you are, & writing butthurt rebuttals (this wall of text is a butthurt rebuttal)


An average, simple audit takes long hours, you apparently believe that entering an API key is it, right? Vera Algaert could have 2 or 3 words with you about that.