Market Discussions

TL;DR at the end of the post.

Accepted, cause you are.
As I said, MD is heavy driven by paranoia. Nothing bad in that, it's just you can't deny it's a condition.
I presume other investors received API too since I doubt that 2-5b investments fly in without prior private communications or API checks. I'll leave it to other investors to comment on that matter.

And I was the "first to bite" cause safe carebearish investments (secured and whatnot) are filled almost instantly, while newcomers without any collateral have no entry point into market and serious trading.
While collateral is a massive security instrument, those possessing it are merely in need of liquidity but not financial support. They might as well dump the stuff and start the venture. With lesser interest provided + keeping stuff they might need in future, it's a definite win-win (at least for them.) I'm not going to comment on people looking to play it safe for miserable return.

But what would you suggest to someone starting up in trading? Grind lvl4?

I've been there myself and I could have started trading years ago and I wish I did have the assets I do now to get into trading, but due to my personal beliefs instead of going for IPOs and Bonds in 2008-2009, I went another way of earning for my EVE living.

Eventually, all this brings me to this point where I do some trading (finally) and started to invest into new to trading people and enjoy other aspects of the game. I should mention that I have been locked in C6 for quite a while to keep any more agonizing paranoia going on. If you're familiar with c6 income figures you may figure out how much time of 2 Moros hanging out with sleepers with 2 cap escalations added to that equals to 2b I invested into Sav Trading.
I'm not chest-beating or something, just a reminder that investing even risky ones is something I can actually afford to do. And yes I'm freaking happy when someone is using my investments to a great result and actually not being staggered by current success not to think of new ideas and expansions. You may call it shill on my part, but whatever.

I'll skip your post with quote-jerking, but to let you know the reason I'm doing what I'm doing is to have fun and support people who are starting in marketing.

I agree, that this "Share" thing is a whole different thing comparing to trading, and I already told Sav in our first correspondence, that the whole idea will be supported by people with an already established manufacturing process.
And I should point out that this thread is a DISCUSSION of possibilities and not an IPO, as far as I can see.
And I would like to see good ideas for improvements I could implement in my personal ventures.

TL;DR: Please contact Alex Grison for paranoia medication.

We discussed this in the thread, the owner of a BPO can leverage it, using the model on page 1, and still build from it. essentially they can profit of the BPO, without owning it.

Some Supercapitol Bpo's sell for Under NPC costs. would you rather sell it for 14b, or pay soeme interest & get a few builds of it. If the build cost isn't there, you can use the isk to trade, to make an income from it until such time as it reaches useful.

Some BPO's will take a few weeks/months to sell at the price u want, so a sell order thread can be made, and a 3rd party asset sale can go on while you leverage against it from MD. (Hey idiots sell freighters to buy orders everyday, it happens)

Or need research done, thats how i got my catalogue of BS BPO;s researched. i leveraged them with a 3rd party researcher, and launched a public bond, traded with the isk, made money while my asset gained value... etc etc

I could go on.

But lets talk about the C6 and how jelly i am

Honestly, I love the input you're giving me. This was exactly what I wanted to go for with this thread, because you are unknowingly giving me good tips in what I am actually behind on more 'established' industrialists. For that I thank you!

I do try to get the best out of my operations, and I am not saying I am a flawless person, so even with that there can be some error. However I do my calculations based on isk/day because it gives you a better view if you calculate the max amount of cycles per day, multiplied by the net profit per cycle. Because there are certain times the production may lay still for whatever reason, so I believe profit for production would better be calculated over the amount of actual modules and ships made, minus the cost of the minerals.




This is something VV has also suggested me, and it is something that would most definite be worth looking at. However, as it has indeed been noticed, my plan is still to buy the actual BPOs with money from the IPO. So yes, I do like the idea as it does give more 'security' (as the 3rd party is STILL an EVE player, however a more established one) for the investors.




I completely understand where you're coming from, however I had never thought someone would actually analyze my post so detailed. It's great to see how others operate!

*Edit: I totally forgot about that when I was so busy typing... Anyway, as for the billion you wanted to invest in my bond. When you contacted me, I hadn't conduct the repayment yet, so at that point I had quite enough ISK to fund my trading. However, as time passes, I did start buying extra modules, see if that would guarantee somewhat higher profits. At this point I had repaid the first 20%, leaving me with just under 8B of the bond filled. Erialor asked on the forums if he could invest another 500m in the bond, and as he is a current investor, I do like to give them somewhat priority over newer investors. So I allowed it, since I had the room for it.

Please know that I did not do this for any other reason than that, what ever you may think of it. If this discomforts you, then I am truly sorry.*

Now as for what also has been pointed out, MD is a forum filled with paranoia and distrust. That is one thing that will never change, because of all the major scams that are allowed in the EVE universe. But I am just trying to do my thing, work my angle, and learn from this thread. I can't get rid of all the bad things, but just trying to do the good thing is a good (but small) step forwards.


Now as for this thread, I love all the angles you are all playing at, and I am indeed toying around with this idea, it is in no way certain I will start this up. I do get more ideas on how not just the IPO should work, and for that I thank you all!

Right... Maybe I'll be posting with my main, Saveritas, then.

And?



From OP:



Must have been some conversation, talking about 2 different things in this here thread. I realise you may/may not have spoken to the guy, but that is irrelevant. All we know is what is written here from the OP, and thats what most of us have based our comments on.



eveboard links? you already mentioned the name of the other one.

The actual isk/day calc instead of spin about how u prefer to calculate it that way.?

You have made the thread, and there is some real positive feedback going on here, A few have gone out on a limb whiteknighting you for you even, it would be nice to see some of the real questions answered. that is if you plan to continue, as im sure your future/current investors appreciate it !

First of all, there are some things not mentioned in this thread because I at the time just didn't have it cross my mind, though which I did bring up when conversating with VV. So I reckon that would have to be my fault, however I wasn't intending this to somewhat more of a hearing because this thread is to discuss the possibility of running an IPO with the initial set up.
Now, it is clear that that isn't how people in general want to see it go down, because of a mixed feeling of (or, a lack of) security.

Now I understand why you're so keen on seeing eveboards from all my characters, including API details, including a list of all assets I currently own that would aid me in this IPO. However, this is not a thread in which I will clarify these details. If and when this IPO actually comes about, I will gladly share those details, as they are relevant then. For now, I was looking for more building comments as I have had in the first two pages (Such as getting the BPOs stored at a 3rd party or running this later on when I have full collateral).

As for my characters involved, these characters names are Saveritas, Saverithos and Saveritrader. I'm not sure how this would help you, yet that's as open as I deem necessary for this particular post. If we were talking about my bond, I'd gladly share the api details of the characters involved in that (Which would be this one.)

Just a small thing of note: Your TL;DR is longer than your normal version.

I actually don't know how to respond to this... I can hardly believe how you think I am someone who I am not. I would gladly talk to you on teamspeak or any other form of actual communication, because it is just bollocks to say I, or Claire, are people we aren't.

this Isn't even MD's final form

@OP, what these nice ppl are telling you is go get some collateral, no-ones gonna give 20b to some joker that built ammo when he was a noob, when he isn't capable of putting anything on the line.

relax guys the coffee gimmick account has a c6 income, he can spare it, let him get fleeced, plenty of red flags all over this. scrubs like that deserve to be scammed, natural progression.

op got what thing right, even using a 3rd party its still just an eve player, you can sperg all you want about how your trustworthy but thats all rubbish, look at that VV white knighting these jokers. & getting butthurt when called out about it lol. im amazed you got isk in the first place (cash out now)

Hm, it's a shame that a normal topic in which I tried to ask the MD people for some advice first turned into a thread in which I'm called out to be a scammer, people that have invested in me are called out scammers.

I feel like you guys are just ranting for the sake of ranting. And that actually is quite troublesome.... Either way, let's leave this topic where it is at and stop pointing fingers and call out names in which you have no clue of what you are saying. I will continue with my bond, and do this IPO when I feel the time is right.

If you still feel like ranting then, go ahead. But the point has been made in this topic, I have heard what I needed to hear, got some good advices on the case and will review my own personal stance on this.

..I took care of my TL;DR being longer then the actually body of the post. I'll call your attention to my "TTL;DR,WTL;DR" section. It stands for "The too long didn't read was too long didn't read" I expect this new abbreviation to go viral on all popular interwebs.

As for how to respond to this...No I don't want to talk to you on teamspeak. Why? Because that's what you want. To make this IPO and discussion personal. It doesn't have to be personal, it just has to be factual.

I would much rather invest in a lifeless pilot who make a thread here with no personality but solid facts and numbers then a smooth talking pilot who avoids any and all questions. I.E. you.




..On the topic of meaning I present to the Community: Not interested in "community protection against possible scam"." I mean I don't want to see anyone scammed, sure. But on that not, I really don't care what people do with their ISK. They can all shove it down Somer Blink for all I care.

What I am interested in, and quite skilled at, in game or otherwise is, calling BS out as being BS. I may not know the correct way/method of doing X, but I can sure spot a wrong way. And I can also surely point out that wrong way. So this is just a little hobby of mine I enjoy doing.

On the toping of "What does what I'm saying have to do with Claire Coffee." Simple. I am calling you out as a scammer. I believe that you and Sav are cohorts and you are attempting to cash in some of your rep for ISK.





Claire, this is Eve. As you and all pilots should know, when meeting a new pilot/poster/investor/investee/corp mate, there should in fact be a healthy dose of "Presumption of Guilt and/or Intent to Harm."

Now I know you know this. SO it makes me even further question why you are such a cheerleader for Sav.



..Saveritrader there is advice to be had from this thread. The same advice I gave you on page one.

Use a bit of your own funds to secure BPOS.
Use a bit of your own funds to set up a POS.
Run your lines profitably for approx. two months.
Come to MD with figures, numbers. profit margins, and most of all, collateral.

I've asked you before why you do not want to do it this way.

It looks like you just wont be happy until you get unsecured ISK from MD. I wonder why that is??