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Ship to move large cargoes fast AFK, inst. of BR
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#1 - 2013-02-02 22:45:50 UTC
Up until the latest expansion, I used a Blockade Runner, optimized for AFK travel, when I needed to move fairly large amounts around, as in a couple of thousand m3, through connected high-sec, while AFK.

But with the new unscannable cargo hold, that's no longer a good idea. The risk of getting ganked by people who assume I'm hauling something valuable (which I basically never am, because I use my Freighter for that, and split up into multiple loads to keep the cargo value under 850M or so). The Blockade Runner is out.

I already have an Interceptor, also fitted for AFK travel, which is super good for moving small amounts of stuff, as in a few dozen m3, or a couple of hundred m3 if I replace the LOW slot modules with cargo expanders (at the expensive of slower STL speed, so that the 15km-to-gate takes longer).

Freighter for huge AFK cargoes. Interceptor for tiny AFK cargoes.

But what should I use for the middle ground? One of the biggest benefits of the Crane Blockade Runner is that it has a high STL speed, which can be pimped further via LOW slot modules and if desired also RIGs. And it does 9 AU/sec.

Is there an alternative? I could use my trusty Bustard Deep Space Transport, which can haul something like 5k m3, but it's slow at STL and it only does 3 AU/sec, while the Crane did 9 AU/sec.

So is something simply lost from the game? Or what should I use for this purpose, now that the Crane is no longer usable?
Skorpynekomimi
#2 - 2013-02-02 22:58:56 UTC
DST tanked to hell, perhaps?
Someone else's freighter?
An orca?
Not flying afk in the first place?

As the saying goes, if you fly afk, you die afk. Have fun making the rest of your journey in your pod and wondering where your ship went.

Economic PVP
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#3 - 2013-02-02 23:08:52 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
DST tanked to hell, perhaps?
Someone else's freighter?
An orca?
Not flying afk in the first place?

As the saying goes, if you fly afk, you die afk. Have fun making the rest of your journey in your pod and wondering where your ship went.


Learn to read.
Skorpynekomimi
#4 - 2013-02-03 00:10:31 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
DST tanked to hell, perhaps?
Someone else's freighter?
An orca?
Not flying afk in the first place?

As the saying goes, if you fly afk, you die afk. Have fun making the rest of your journey in your pod and wondering where your ship went.


Learn to read.


No, YOU learn to read, and learn to be nicer. You asked for suggestions, I gave them. I then helpfully pointed out that if you fly afk, you will DIE afk, and that you won't BE ganked if you're careful.

Economic PVP
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#5 - 2013-02-03 00:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Maybe something like this:

[Sigil]
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Improved Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]

Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I

I like to use the Sigil on Amarr characters.

285m/s (even more with implant), 7,8 au/s (8,9 with 5% warp speed implant), 3750 m3 at Indy 5. Shield tank is pathetic ofc. Fitting speed rigs is useless due to penalties.

Usually I fit them with istabs for max agility though. Pretty safe non afk in highsec. T1 haulers get targeted regularly but I have never been locked in one of these. The Sigil seems to be too nimble for most gate campers. Quite cheap compared to a transport.

Remove standings and insurance.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#6 - 2013-02-03 00:33:23 UTC
IMO your best chance is a T1 indus with nanofibers and hyperspatial velocity optimiser rigs. Performances wont be even near the blocade runner in term of speed, though they will be way better than a deep space transport for afk hauling of low cost medium volume cargo.

I like the Sigil for this task :
[Sigil, rapide]

3x Medium Shield Extender II

4x Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

3x Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Up to 310m/s, 6,50s align time, 3750m^3

Though, with your skills, a Badger MkII may be rather good, with 224m/s, 7,76s align time, and 6562m^3. Tank is pretty good too (for a T1 indus).
[Badger Mark II, rapide]

EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
4x Medium Shield Extender II

3x Nanofiber Internal Structure II

3x Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
The rigs may be better with agility or speed, it's up to you.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#7 - 2013-02-03 01:23:16 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Salpad wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
DST tanked to hell, perhaps?
Someone else's freighter?
An orca?
Not flying afk in the first place?

As the saying goes, if you fly afk, you die afk. Have fun making the rest of your journey in your pod and wondering where your ship went.


Learn to read.


No, YOU learn to read, and learn to be nicer. You asked for suggestions, I gave them. I then helpfully pointed out that if you fly afk, you will DIE afk, and that you won't BE ganked if you're careful.


You gave suggestions that have nothing to do with what I've asked for. I asked for speed. You replied with material containing phrases such as "tanked to hell", and suggesting an Orca, indiciting your complete and utter inability to read my original post which made it perfectly clear what I'm after.

Also, you're perpetuating the "badass piwate" myth that if you fly AFK in high-sec then you will get ganked. I've flown AFK a lot in high-sec, over the last several years, without that happening to me. The fact is, flying AFK in high-sec is extremely safe.

Please go away!
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#8 - 2013-02-03 01:28:10 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
IMO your best chance is a T1 indus with nanofibers and hyperspatial velocity optimiser rigs. Performances wont be even near the blocade runner in term of speed, though they will be way better than a deep space transport for afk hauling of low cost medium volume cargo.

I like the Sigil for this task


Thanks to you and Mara for pointing me to the Sigil. I already have a Badger MkII which I use sometimes instead of my Bustard, but I've assumed that all T1 industrials were pretty much alike in terms of stats.

They do all seem to do a mere 4.5 AU/sec, which is half the speed of the Crane, but the Sigil is a lot faster STL than the Badger MkI/II is. And it's not much trouble to buy and train the Amarr Industrial Skill.

I think I'll go with STL in LOW slots and FTL in RIG slots, which will probably get me a nice little speedy industrial, for moving medium-sized cargos around.

Thanks!
stoicfaux
#9 - 2013-02-03 16:48:10 UTC
I wouldn't get too hung up on FTL speed. There's a long acceleration/deceleration period that really cuts into whatever warp speed advantage you have. IIRC, I was in a Cheetah with warp rigs and got into a WTZ race with a cruiser or frigate that happened to be going my way. It took 10+ jumps before I started to barely pull ahead of the other ship. =/

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#10 - 2013-02-04 02:28:14 UTC
Locator agents at the ready.
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#11 - 2013-02-04 04:03:56 UTC
1. Don't fly AFK
2. I don't think many gankers will bother losing their ships for the slim chance you might be carrying something worth while.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#12 - 2013-02-04 04:05:48 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Salpad wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
DST tanked to hell, perhaps?
Someone else's freighter?
An orca?
Not flying afk in the first place?

As the saying goes, if you fly afk, you die afk. Have fun making the rest of your journey in your pod and wondering where your ship went.


Learn to read.


No, YOU learn to read, and learn to be nicer. You asked for suggestions, I gave them. I then helpfully pointed out that if you fly afk, you will DIE afk, and that you won't BE ganked if you're careful.


You gave suggestions that have nothing to do with what I've asked for. I asked for speed. You replied with material containing phrases such as "tanked to hell", and suggesting an Orca, indiciting your complete and utter inability to read my original post which made it perfectly clear what I'm after.

Also, you're perpetuating the "badass piwate" myth that if you fly AFK in high-sec then you will get ganked. I've flown AFK a lot in high-sec, over the last several years, without that happening to me. The fact is, flying AFK in high-sec is extremely safe.

Please go away!

AFK haul some plex to Jita then. Im sure it will be fine, after all "Flying AFK in high-sec is extremely safe"

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
FerrenoNL
Trident Strategies
OnlyFleets.
#13 - 2013-02-04 12:25:11 UTC
Salpad wrote:


You gave suggestions that have nothing to do with what I've asked for. I asked for speed. You replied with material containing phrases such as "tanked to hell", and suggesting an Orca, indiciting your complete and utter inability to read my original post which made it perfectly clear what I'm after.

Also, you're perpetuating the "badass piwate" myth that if you fly AFK in high-sec then you will get ganked. I've flown AFK a lot in high-sec, over the last several years, without that happening to me. The fact is, flying AFK in high-sec is extremely safe.

Please go away!


He gave you perfectly valid suggestions. Your corpname seems to fit you well.

Now on topic;
An Orca would not be too bad of an idea considering you can fit stuff on it compared to a freighter. Depending on your wallet size you can easily get an Orca to align in about 15 sec (Nomad implants) with great cargo capacity and gank-proofness. However, yes it'll take you longer to move around.

I would personally probably go with a Bustard. Because it looks so *cute* like a regular Badger gankers might underestimate its potential EHP (~60k). Plus decent cargo size. Might want to consider implants (Snake or Nomad sets). Again it'll take you longer to get to the gate, but I don't see the issue. Your AFK right? Blink
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#14 - 2013-02-04 13:00:42 UTC
FerrenoNL wrote:
Salpad wrote:


You gave suggestions that have nothing to do with what I've asked for. I asked for speed. You replied with material containing phrases such as "tanked to hell", and suggesting an Orca, indiciting your complete and utter inability to read my original post which made it perfectly clear what I'm after.

Also, you're perpetuating the "badass piwate" myth that if you fly AFK in high-sec then you will get ganked. I've flown AFK a lot in high-sec, over the last several years, without that happening to me. The fact is, flying AFK in high-sec is extremely safe.

Please go away!


He gave you perfectly valid suggestions. Your corpname seems to fit you well.

Now on topic;
An Orca would not be too bad of an idea considering you can fit stuff on it compared to a freighter. Depending on your wallet size you can easily get an Orca to align in about 15 sec (Nomad implants) with great cargo capacity and gank-proofness. However, yes it'll take you longer to move around.

I would personally probably go with a Bustard. Because it looks so *cute* like a regular Badger gankers might underestimate its potential EHP (~60k). Plus decent cargo size. Might want to consider implants (Snake or Nomad sets). Again it'll take you longer to get to the gate, but I don't see the issue. Your AFK right? Blink

It's always a cost/benefit thing. You can haul some things in a T1 indus AFK safely as long as your goods worth less than what it takes to steel it.

A Badger MkII can easily get 14,6kehp with 6500m^3 and nanofibers in the lows. That will be like five times or more faster than an Orca. I easily understand there could be some reasons for this.

High sec is a rather safe place despite all gankers.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#15 - 2013-02-04 13:39:50 UTC
The Nano-Sigil used to be recommended for moving stuff through 0.0 so not only is it quite efficient for your needs but it also has a nice heritage value.

It will be more fragile than your Crane so remember to adjust your calculations down with respect to what you can carry.

I haven't run the numbers but I suppose an Occator or Impel laden with Nanos, O/Ds and Hyperspacials (with perhaps some armour resists) might do pretty well - The Mastadon has fewer lows and, despite its more potent shields may be less valuable in the long run... As I recall it's rather a slug for a Minmatar ship.

Unfortunately the Vigil was rebalanced between my two test runs so I can't say for certain whether Hyperspacials are optimal for the rig slots, though with only two and a reasonable supply of lows they probably aren't far off; at least given a typical journey.


Suicide ganking is, of course, still a risk (gankers make mistakes too sometimes) but if you're tailoring your cargo value to keep yourself out of their profit then you are minimising the risks... Having said that, the Sigil was quite popular for a lot of the lowsec courier bots for a while (for the same reasons as it might be valuable to you) and might still be seen as such by players...
UBG TwoPointOh
Horde Armada
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2013-02-04 13:41:46 UTC
unscannable cargoholds? what have i missed in the last patch?! this is the first i hear about this
Machagon
Amamake Anarchist Community College
#17 - 2013-02-04 15:35:15 UTC
[Exequror, New Setup 1]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I




Over 2000 cubic meters of cargo space, 22000 EHP, aligns in 4.8 seconds, slowboats at 246 m/s
Personally, I'd drop one of the shields for an MWD, so I could click it if I happen to be passing by the keyboard while it's approaching a gate.

No one suicide ganks an Exeq
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#18 - 2013-02-04 16:25:13 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Up until the latest expansion, I used a Blockade Runner, optimized for AFK travel, when I needed to move fairly large amounts around, as in a couple of thousand m3, through connected high-sec, while AFK.

But with the new unscannable cargo hold, that's no longer a good idea. The risk of getting ganked by people who assume I'm hauling something valuable (which I basically never am, because I use my Freighter for that, and split up into multiple loads to keep the cargo value under 850M or so). The Blockade Runner is out.



I don't buy it. Before, you were using cargo that wasn't valuable enough to get you suicide ganked. You still plan to move cargo that isn't valuable enough to get you suicide ganked. I would suggest that you continue to use a blockade runner. There remains a small chance you could get ganked, but even if you are ganked, you won't be losing too much. Blockade runners just have too much going for them to not use them now.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Cephalus
Epic Logistic
#19 - 2013-02-04 23:10:42 UTC
UBG TwoPointOh wrote:
unscannable cargoholds? what have i missed in the last patch?! this is the first i hear about this


i have been away from the game and would like to know to, i did not see any patch notes about unscannable cargo hold?
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#20 - 2013-02-05 00:47:47 UTC
Cephalus wrote:
UBG TwoPointOh wrote:
unscannable cargoholds? what have i missed in the last patch?! this is the first i hear about this


i have been away from the game and would like to know to, i did not see any patch notes about unscannable cargo hold?


The Orca used to have one of its bays be unscannable, I think it was the corporate bay. But with a recent patch, IIRC Retribution 1.0, it got changed to becoming scannable, and instead the Blockade Runner was gifted with an unscannable cargo bay - the only one it has. So now, when you want to move something in secret, the procedure is to use a BR instead of an Orca.

Which rather cramps my original style. But I'll take a look at the Sigil. And the Badger MkII.

And as for the guy who asked why speed matters when I'm AFK anyway, the reason is that something I'm only slightly AFK. I might be alt+tabbed out of the game client, reading a web article or writing an email, or I might actually be in-game but focused on chat or PI instead of on flying my ship manually. Sometimes I need to visit half a dozen systems or so as quickly as possible, within a couple of hours, to update some biz each place, but can't be arsed to travel manually for a total of 50-80 jumps.
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