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this New Order bull

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Dj-Satanic Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-02-04 14:31:05 UTC
too many people are gettin harrassed and having their game play interupted by this New Order where they have to pay 10mill to whoever and are allowed to mine for a year get ganked and are not allowed to respond in any way and generally get follwed system to system until they either pay up or quit the game. this is harrassment and should not be allowed to continue. i have been told that it doesnt break the eula but if i understand things correctly following someone system to system and disrupting their gameplay is breaking the eula. hence james 315 and his new order should not be allowed to continue. it is annoying and harrassing to the point of ppl leaving the game
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-04 14:34:03 UTC
It's not harassment it's extortion and it is a perfectly valid way to make money. You can move to another region, hire mercs to war dec them or just deal with some other way.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Dj-Satanic Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-04 14:48:19 UTC
actually the way its being done is harrassment, it breaks the eula and nothing is gettin done even tho ppl have petitioned this in the past and present. this player has written laws that he states have been voted on by the players even tho he was the onbly peron who voted on them, hes recruited other players to harrass those who do not buckle to his demands, you get folllowed from belt to belt, system to system and end up losing your ships with this bullying tactic
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-04 14:52:56 UTC
Look up the old hulkaggedon player driven event that used to happen annually (or more often). It is not breaking the EULA

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#5 - 2013-02-04 14:55:07 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
It's not harassment it's extortion and it is a perfectly valid way to make money. You can move to another region, hire mercs to war dec them or just deal with some other way.

This is largely correct. I hate the scum bags too, but I have said several times, they are devious gits who have come up with a damn good system. I admire the co-ordination and the ingenuity they have put into their chosen profession as well as the dedication.

However, if they are following you from system to system, that does break the EULA, as defined by CCP - it is harasment.

The New Order, in and of itself is well thought out and organised. Admittedly, some of the 'code' is pure bovine manure of the male variety and some is just funny. It totally favours the New Order members, but what do you expect? They have put a lot of effort into it though, so kudos for that.

Friends
Dj-Satanic Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-04 14:56:03 UTC
if they are harrass players to make them pay for a 'permit' to mine in peace then yea it breaks the eula as bullyin is not acceptable in any game. this is harrassment that goes too far if they are following players to different systems just to try and make them pay this permit fee. theyv been doin it since june last year in the gallente systems and now they are moving further afield. people have complained about this before but always james 315 and his ilk have managed to deny that they are bullying anyone. this needs sorting out now
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-02-04 15:01:16 UTC
Dj-Satanic Charante wrote:
actually the way its being done is harrassment, it breaks the eula and nothing is gettin done even tho ppl have petitioned this in the past and present. this player has written laws that he states have been voted on by the players even tho he was the onbly peron who voted on them, hes recruited other players to harrass those who do not buckle to his demands, you get folllowed from belt to belt, system to system and end up losing your ships with this bullying tactic


Why haven't you retaliated against them, yet? Or paid someone else to do it? I assume from your statements that you must have some kill rights to sell by now.

Or, as has been suggested, move on to other areas. Find some quiet bit of lowsec where they won't follow you, and mine there to your heart's content. Their bullying tactic relies on hisec mechanics that generally prevent you or anyone else from pre-empting their nonsense.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-04 15:10:49 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Dj-Satanic Charante wrote:
actually the way its being done is harrassment, it breaks the eula and nothing is gettin done even tho ppl have petitioned this in the past and present. this player has written laws that he states have been voted on by the players even tho he was the onbly peron who voted on them, hes recruited other players to harrass those who do not buckle to his demands, you get folllowed from belt to belt, system to system and end up losing your ships with this bullying tactic


Why haven't you retaliated against them, yet? Or paid someone else to do it? I assume from your statements that you must have some kill rights to sell by now.

Or, as has been suggested, move on to other areas. Find some quiet bit of lowsec where they won't follow you, and mine there to your heart's content. Their bullying tactic relies on hisec mechanics that generally prevent you or anyone else from pre-empting their nonsense.


Oh hey, I didn't realize kill rights were transferable now... thanks for that, made me look it up. Apparently you can make them available to anyone too? Almost would make hunting them down worthwhile if miners made use of this. Anyways, to the OP, probably the wrong forum for this, but more to the point, extortion and the like is 100% allowed in EVE... to a point. Pretty much spamming, making it impossible for you to play (like I'm pretty sure bumping falls under not ok in some circumstances, but since it leads up to ganking and not bumping you to make it impossible to do anything or even leave for long period of time, making it impossible to play, New Order doesn't fall under that circumstance). Point is, it all depends on how they are going about it.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-04 15:25:10 UTC
After reading through the new order web site, I can say with good understanding that no, it is not harassment under the EULA as such they are removing you from systems they claim are theirs, if you leave them you should be fine, it is up to you to find out what there claimed systems are. If they follow you out of them then you might be able to petition for harassment.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#10 - 2013-02-04 15:41:07 UTC
kudos to this guy, hes pretty much made up a new high sec mafia of sorts getting folks to pay him protection money otherwise things become a living hell for the person who doesnt pay up, well thought out and it isnt breaking the EULA untill he takes this OOG so i guess your gunna have to dec him or pay someone else to provide protection... that or pay the man :-P
Dj-Satanic Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-04 15:54:34 UTC
considering he and his followers are following ppl into every high sec system, they dont actually own a system either they just like to think they do and then break the eula by harrassing every player untill they pay up. this is the guy who is putting himself forward for csm aswell? and we all know the csm is the scapegoat for anything that goes wrong, i can see his 'cult' failing considering he has religous inferences withinj his whole new order layout and his followers tend to preach religion when speaking in local. religion should not be bought into a game
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#12 - 2013-02-04 16:06:16 UTC
im sure a GM or CCP member could shed some light on your prediciment, but im pretty sure they are not violating anything
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#13 - 2013-02-04 16:15:00 UTC
Dj-Satanic Charante wrote:
too many people are gettin harrassed and having their game play interupted by this New Order where they have to pay 10mill to whoever and are allowed to mine for a year get ganked and are not allowed to respond in any way and generally get follwed system to system until they either pay up or quit the game. this is harrassment and should not be allowed to continue. i have been told that it doesnt break the eula but if i understand things correctly following someone system to system and disrupting their gameplay is breaking the eula. hence james 315 and his new order should not be allowed to continue. it is annoying and harrassing to the point of ppl leaving the game


It is not harassment, and the New Order are not following individuals "from system to system", rather, you continually choose to operate in our systems (highsec) and encounter our Agents.

There are no Agents or Code in lowsec, nullsec or wormhole space.

Hope this helps.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2013-02-04 16:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakan MacTrew
@ Dj-Satanic Charante

The majority of the New Order are actually very careful that they don't break the EULA.

Extortion does not break it.
It is not harrasment unless they persist from system to system and over a protracted period of time.
That is CCP's stance on it.

So, if they follow you from system to system, then report them.
If not, and you have put in your petitions and they keep coming back and nothing is being done, then you will have to work out how to out-smart them.

Find systems they don't bother with.
When a non-mining ship turns up near you, pay attention and get ready to move.
Don't afk mine - pay attention
These are just some of the options available to you.

Alternatively, pay them and follow their rules in the space they have assumed control of by force, which is exactly what they have done. They may not have their name on it, but they exert control, whcih is why you are complaining in the first place.

Either way, stop whining.

(EDIT: Oh, and just in case this rant continues, IBTL)

Friends
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#15 - 2013-02-04 16:24:34 UTC
Dj-Satanic Charante wrote:
considering he and his followers are following ppl into every high sec system, they dont actually own a system either they just like to think they do and then break the eula by harrassing every player untill they pay up. this is the guy who is putting himself forward for csm aswell? and we all know the csm is the scapegoat for anything that goes wrong, i can see his 'cult' failing considering he has religous inferences withinj his whole new order layout and his followers tend to preach religion when speaking in local. religion should not be bought into a game


Sweet, sweet tears of inconsolable AFK-miner sadness.

You should join a mining corp that teaches aggression, not passivity. And then move into lowsec. I promise, it's not as scary as you've been lead to believe. I promise, very few people will follow you system to system, or bump you off your asteroid. Most of them probably won't even extort you. They might blow you up without provocation, but these things happen. At least you can find solace in the fact that no one is breaking the EULA by doing so. Politicking and making friends with in-system locals is, as always, up to you.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#16 - 2013-02-04 16:45:49 UTC
Harrassment is when there's a pattern of actions targetting someone to purposely cause real life stress and drive him/her out of the game.

This cannot include normal consequences of normal gameplay, I cannot say "loosing my spaceship cause me real life stress so is against the EULA.

No offense but if someone suffer real life stress for loosing a spaceship in a videogame probably has some serious personal problem not related to the game itself....

Beside, 10 milions for a year is so cheap, sounds really like a symbolic fee made only to give a sense to the gameplay. I loose at least 10-15 milion firgate everyday to those damn ammarians. Not like I say they're against the EULA...
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#17 - 2013-02-04 21:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Dj-Satanic Charante wrote:
if they are harrass players to make them pay for a 'permit' to mine in peace then yea it breaks the eula as bullyin is not acceptable in any game.

You're playing the wrong game then. In EVE, anyone can disrupt "your game" in the name of profit. Ransom, blackmail, and extortion are all perfectly legal.

Dj-Satanic Charante wrote:
this is harrassment that goes too far if they are following players to different systems just to try and make them pay this permit fee.

CCP defines "harassment" as; singling out a player for no other motive other than to enrage and/or frustrate AND following said player around despite any and all reasonable attempts to evade you (moving one or two jumps over is not a reasonable attempt at evasion).

So unless they are doing exactly what I described above, it's not harassment. It's just part of the game. Feel free to make a petition though if you are not convinced.

Dj-Satanic Charante wrote:
theyv been doin it since june last year in the gallente systems and now they are moving further afield. people have complained about this before but always james 315 and his ilk have managed to deny that they are bullying anyone. this needs sorting out now

Yep. And the DEVs responded to it. It's legal gameplay.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&find=unread

How did you Veterans start?
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-04 21:35:09 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

CCP defines "harassment" as; singling out a player for no other motive other than to enrage and/or frustrate AND following said player around despite any and all reasonable attempts to evade you (moving one or two jumps over is not a reasonable attempt at evasion).

So unless they are doing exactly what I described above, it's not harassment. It's just part of the game. Feel free to make a petition though if you are not convinced.

Dj-Satanic Charante wrote:
theyv been doin it since june last year in the gallente systems and now they are moving further afield. people have complained about this before but always james 315 and his ilk have managed to deny that they are bullying anyone. this needs sorting out now

Yep. And the DEVs responded to it. It's legal gameplay.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&find=unread


Actually, in that link you provided, it really doesn't go into detail about how far you have to travel, it just says "another location".... so kind of up in the air how far they are allowed to follow if they do, soooo, I don't think anyone here other than CCP or a GM is in any position to make a call on how much is a reasonable effort.
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-04 21:51:07 UTC
If you're worried about ganks, why not use the tanky barge? It's made for that purpose. Here, have two fits. You can even copypaste them into EFT to see if they fit with your skills.

[Procurer, Cheap anti-gank]
Damage Control I
Power Diagnostic System I

Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I
Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Strip Miner I

Hobgoblin I x5

55,615 ehp with all V skills and as cheap as it gets. If you get ganked the insurance will cover most of it and any gankers will lose many times over the value.


[Procurer, Balanced]
Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

This one gets 84,008 ehp at all skills at V but it's a very tight fit. The price is a little higher but by no means restrictive. You can squeeze additional 4000 ehp and a bit more fitting room by swapping the MLU to power diag II or easier on the skills with a MAPC.

Now compare that to the damage output of a tornado. One can put out ~15k damage (two volleys) in 0.5 and ~7.5k in 0.7. What this means is any ganker has to sacrifice at least 4 tornadoes to ensure a kill on the cheap version and 6 on the more expensive. It's hilariously ineffective.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#20 - 2013-02-04 22:05:18 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&find=unread


Actually, in that link you provided, it really doesn't go into detail about how far you have to travel, it just says "another location".... so kind of up in the air how far they are allowed to follow if they do, soooo, I don't think anyone here other than CCP or a GM is in any position to make a call on how much is a reasonable effort.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2536157#post2536157

Second quote.

GM Karidor wrote:
Runeme Shilter wrote:
Does "move to another location" mean another Ice-Asteroid? Or another belt? Another system?


While it will involve inconvenience, we will have to see that one actively tried evasion before we consider someone being followed around and harassed. Merely changing belts in the same system or moving a few thousand meters to another asteroid would not qualify in this regard. Ideally you would move to other systems and more than just one or two jumps to avoid being found again quickly, requiring some effort to locate you again (i.e. through locator agents).

Bolded the important bits.

How did you Veterans start?
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