EVE General Discussion

im sure im echoing lots of replies here but I only had time to skim the OP:

1. No point, they dont make enough impact on the game to make it worth removing them. As it is they are now a legacy item that adds colour to the game. In terms of effecting the market or invention they do very little.

2. yes, shopping list/s would be handy - perhaps some sort of extension on the market shortcuts list.

3. An embargo is an interesting one, but it also would be very complicated indeed to implement and CCP already got a pretty long list.

4. definate no, opens the door to RMT in a massive way - "but i wanted to buy 1 piece of Trit for 10 billion ISK".

in reality you should have posted this in F&I - if you want support for your idea you should consider linking it in your signature. This didnt really need general discussion.

Are you daft? Read my post. Mine as well as a few others on here that state that they restrict T2 markets such as T2 cruisers, command ships and a select few T2 frigates.

You'll find that most owners of T2 BPO's don't actually produce T2 goods. If anything, keeping them in game helps the people that actually do produce T2 goods.

That's quite rude of you. You know what. You just like to be stupid don't you? Assuming a Sleipnir BPO was sold for 233B this year, and no more Sleipnir BPOs are coming out anymore. Then you can reasonably assume that that BPO will increase in price as the ISK pool is increasing every year. So yes. They did buy it for 233B ISK. And lol 3.7B ISK for month is quite a bit of profit for just one BPO. Not only that but they could quite likely sell it for more than 233B ISK in the future. Your argument is moot, and your defense of T2 BPOs has been very deceptive and crass to be honest.

Answer the question. Is 1.6% greater than either 3% or 5%?

1.6%/month return is absolutely atrocious for any number of BPOs.

Look, you're better off trying for the "T2BPOs make it impossible for Inventors to make money" argument, because this line of argument is essentially "Mooom, Billy has a nicer toy than me! You need to break his toy because it's nicer than mine."

3.7B/month is dogshit for an investment of 233B ISK.
Let's take a JF manufacturing operation. We get 2 Copy monkeys copying 10 BPOs each (40B in BPOs) and feeding the Inventor who runs 2 Invention jobs/month (roughly). At a success rate of 39.81% (all 4s), you'll build about 8 JFs/month. We'll assume each JF usually brings in about 600m in profit (low), and we can assume that we need 20B extra for incidentals (ludicrously high). So a 60B investment returns ~4.8b/month for the same effort as running a T2BPO (which has to build all the componants etc just the same as any inventor does) (unless you think starting 20 copy jobs and 20 invention jobs/month is onerous).

So, we can invest 233B ISK to make 3.7B/month or we can invest 60b to make 4.8B/month and have 173B ISK left over. Let's just use that 173B and do 2 more JF operations, for a total of 13.4b ISK/month and you still have 53B ISK left over (-1b for the 2 extra PLEX it costs per month).

Is 14.4B more or less than 3.7B? For that matter (since we're apparently ignoring the concept of opportunity cost), is 4.8B more or less than 3.7B?

And to dispense with the "T2BPOs make it impossible for inventors to make money" argument I'll just point to the dozens of ridiculously profitable T2 ships, modules, and ammo you can invent and laugh my way to the bank.

tl;dr T2 BPOs are terrible investments and have no impact whatsoever on inventors ability to make money.

Majority of t2 ships lack profit when done with 1.2x decryptors (best me)
Now whether this is because most t2 ships are crap and thus not bought or because the t2 bpo users are undercutting me is a different matter.
And not really easy to determine without doing some data mining on ship kills to see the frequency of individual ships lost and used in category.

But no t2 bpos are cheap for the original holder.
Much like valuable paintings, you paid a small sum when you got it but then it appreciated in value.
You did not have to spend money as the paintings value rose, yet you gained great value when you sold it far outstripping your initial sum.

So what the valid complaint is that the t2 bpos are able to undercut and prevent the entrance of inventors into specific markets by being able to sell well below the cost of an inventor.
Now that is not fair in an equal economy.
Whatever you make I can buy, take apart and then remake at near the same cost, but since this EVE that doesnt apply and thus t2 bpos should be gotten rid of or they should be capped at the same me pe invented bpcs are.
This would get rid of the artificial barrier created while still allowing the usage of the bpos.
(I would have just broken them all on the day invention was made and spun some story about the product being inferior)

Though when teiricide hits the situation may change as more people make use of the ships thus outstripping the bpo owners ability to supply all the demand.

Woopty dooo. So there is one ship out there that supposidly a T2 BPO owner is seeding the entire market for these ships? More likely its several idiots doing T2 invention and selling the ship for near current market price because he mined the minerals for free. That and claymores just don't get used that much so demand is scarce. Invention is by far the more superior in T2 production in all aspects as you can create more T2 BPC's and run multiple jobs much quicker than making copies of a T2 BPO, as the T1 variant copies faster (and cheaper) and you can run invention jobs very quickly to mass produce 10 run T2 BPC's running multiple manufacturing slots at the same time.


As to the OP's list. I only agree with Number 3, the rest of your arguments are just horse**** and lack of knowledge of the game and tools available (EVE isk per hour will generate a shopping list for you, so quit crying someone already did the coding work for you). While it is true that big alliance/corps will be smart and user trader alts, you can still choose not to sell/buy to specific people, which I think is a good thing.

You clearly are either an idiot or you have never done T2 production if you think you can reliably build T2 items in a station 3 jumps from Jita that will have enough manufacturing slots open to make all of the components and build the T2 items without interruption to make a profit. I have 2 T20 BPO's an old corp mate gave me when he left the game. Even at researched levels, and building my own components, there is virtually no way to 1. keep up with demand of the product with just the BPO (even when making copies) and 2. to make enough of these items to undercut the market in such a fashion that T2 inventors will get shut out, namely because you can only build so fast.

Are there a handful of ships out there that get built for little or no profit when compared to invention, absolutely, but that isn't any differentl than the idiots that make Drakes and Hurricanes for no profit all of the time because they mined the minerals.

Actually it takes longer (which is why I don't do it anymore), which I found out the hard way when I first got it thinking I would just make a bunch of copies and mass produce. Either way, the T2 BPO's I have I only use when the price is right, sometimes it's just not worth firing them up if the market is down.

skillpoints