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Bounty Awards for CONCORD kills? ("Exploit" that subsizides my ganking ops)

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#101 - 2013-02-03 19:03:07 UTC
It was a joke, trying to lighten up the convo a bit. Never mind.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#102 - 2013-02-03 19:12:16 UTC
Since our movement has become wanted, the rascals in our gank fleets always shoot each other up after we slaughter a non-compliant. It's fun and a nice little bonus for a job well done!

So, in effect your bounties help subsidize the purchase of more catalysts and modules. Please give generously!

Thank you for your support.

Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2013-02-03 23:20:44 UTC
John E Normus wrote:
Since our movement has become wanted, the rascals in our gank fleets always shoot each other up after we slaughter a non-compliant. It's fun and a nice little bonus for a job well done!

So, in effect your bounties help subsidize the purchase of more catalysts and modules. Please give generously!

Thank you for your support.


And there's the side of the bounty system that should have been dead obvious... people in the same corp/alliance/fleet should not be getting bounties on eachother. That should have been a no brainer.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#104 - 2013-02-03 23:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Aren Madigan wrote:
John E Normus wrote:
Since our movement has become wanted, the rascals in our gank fleets always shoot each other up after we slaughter a non-compliant. It's fun and a nice little bonus for a job well done!

So, in effect your bounties help subsidize the purchase of more catalysts and modules. Please give generously!

Thank you for your support.


And there's the side of the bounty system that should have been dead obvious... people in the same corp/alliance/fleet should not be getting bounties on eachother. That should have been a no brainer.


Like I said - its worse than that.

My suicide alt is always 'in the fleet' of people who 'whored' the KM while Concord was finishing him off.
Thus, he receives half of the bounty.....on himself.

Hilarious. Butthurt miners put bounties on gankers heads, and the gankers just collect it themselves. Like the good old days of podding yourself for a reward - except now its in regular installments.

And if miners want to keep it in, because the occasional miner gets a potshot off on a dying gankship.....GREAT!

Because gankers will certainly be able to exploit it on a far more regular basis - because we know exactly when and where the gank is going to occur. Collected over 20M of my own *Whitehounds* bounties just recently.
Only missed one because my scout didn't come out of cloak properly when the gankship landed on his head. By the time I uncloaked it was too late. :(

Oh well, the bounties will still be there. There is ALWAYS another gank.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-02-03 23:55:40 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
John E Normus wrote:
Since our movement has become wanted, the rascals in our gank fleets always shoot each other up after we slaughter a non-compliant. It's fun and a nice little bonus for a job well done!

So, in effect your bounties help subsidize the purchase of more catalysts and modules. Please give generously!

Thank you for your support.


And there's the side of the bounty system that should have been dead obvious... people in the same corp/alliance/fleet should not be getting bounties on eachother. That should have been a no brainer.


Like I said - its worse than that.

My suicide alt is always 'in the fleet' of people who 'whored' the KM while Concord was finishing him off.
Thus, he receives half of the bounty.....on himself.

Hilarious. Butthurt miners put bounties on gankers heads, and the gankers just collect it themselves. Like the good old days of podding yourself for a reward - except now its in regular installments.

And if miners want to keep it in, because the occasional miner gets a potshot off on a dying gankship.....GREAT!

Because gankers will certainly be able to exploit it on a far more regular basis - because we know exactly when and where the gank is going to occur. Collected over 20M of my own bounties just recently.
Only missed one because my scout didn't come out of cloak properly when the gankship landed on his head. By the time I uncloaked it was too late. :(

Oh well, the bounties will still be there. There is ALWAYS another gank.


..seriously? You just have to be in the same fleet as the people collecting it? Wow... another no brainer that shouldn't be there, but one that would be fixed somewhat by those in the same fleet or having been in the same fleet recently not getting anything from bounties.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#106 - 2013-02-04 00:21:07 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
John E Normus wrote:
Since our movement has become wanted, the rascals in our gank fleets always shoot each other up after we slaughter a non-compliant. It's fun and a nice little bonus for a job well done!

So, in effect your bounties help subsidize the purchase of more catalysts and modules. Please give generously!

Thank you for your support.


And there's the side of the bounty system that should have been dead obvious... people in the same corp/alliance/fleet should not be getting bounties on eachother. That should have been a no brainer.


Like I said - its worse than that.

My suicide alt is always 'in the fleet' of people who 'whored' the KM while Concord was finishing him off.
Thus, he receives half of the bounty.....on himself.

Hilarious. Butthurt miners put bounties on gankers heads, and the gankers just collect it themselves. Like the good old days of podding yourself for a reward - except now its in regular installments.

And if miners want to keep it in, because the occasional miner gets a potshot off on a dying gankship.....GREAT!

Because gankers will certainly be able to exploit it on a far more regular basis - because we know exactly when and where the gank is going to occur. Collected over 20M of my own bounties just recently.
Only missed one because my scout didn't come out of cloak properly when the gankship landed on his head. By the time I uncloaked it was too late. :(

Oh well, the bounties will still be there. There is ALWAYS another gank.


..seriously? You just have to be in the same fleet as the people collecting it? Wow... another no brainer that shouldn't be there, but one that would be fixed somewhat by those in the same fleet or having been in the same fleet recently not getting anything from bounties.


I'm not really interested in a theoretical 'solution' that cuts off ganker exploitation of the bounty system, while leaving in the random 'potshot on a doomed GCC'd target' exploit. Neither makes sense, and leaving it in (in either case) makes it impossible to maintain a high bounty.

And really, I'm not sure it is really possible to easily distinguish the two cases. Thats what makes them alts. They could be anybody. Thus, I think the cleanest solution would be simply to eliminate payouts for Concord KMs. Like flipping a switch, like the other guy said. The insurance system is able to distinguish between Concord kills and others. No reason why the bounty system couldn't as well.

But really, I don't think CCP is going to do anything. I imagine the free money train for gankers is going to be with us for a long time. +1 for Crimewatch in that respect.

It also made ganking with 1400MM arty a LOT easier in 0.7 systems (where most of the ice mining occurs.) So, +2 for Crimewatch. Now you get guaranteed 2nd volleys EVERY time, instead of once in awhile. Silver lining and all that.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-02-04 00:27:51 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
John E Normus wrote:
Since our movement has become wanted, the rascals in our gank fleets always shoot each other up after we slaughter a non-compliant. It's fun and a nice little bonus for a job well done!

So, in effect your bounties help subsidize the purchase of more catalysts and modules. Please give generously!

Thank you for your support.


And there's the side of the bounty system that should have been dead obvious... people in the same corp/alliance/fleet should not be getting bounties on eachother. That should have been a no brainer.


Like I said - its worse than that.

My suicide alt is always 'in the fleet' of people who 'whored' the KM while Concord was finishing him off.
Thus, he receives half of the bounty.....on himself.

Hilarious. Butthurt miners put bounties on gankers heads, and the gankers just collect it themselves. Like the good old days of podding yourself for a reward - except now its in regular installments.

And if miners want to keep it in, because the occasional miner gets a potshot off on a dying gankship.....GREAT!

Because gankers will certainly be able to exploit it on a far more regular basis - because we know exactly when and where the gank is going to occur. Collected over 20M of my own bounties just recently.
Only missed one because my scout didn't come out of cloak properly when the gankship landed on his head. By the time I uncloaked it was too late. :(

Oh well, the bounties will still be there. There is ALWAYS another gank.


..seriously? You just have to be in the same fleet as the people collecting it? Wow... another no brainer that shouldn't be there, but one that would be fixed somewhat by those in the same fleet or having been in the same fleet recently not getting anything from bounties.


I'm not really interested in a theoretical 'solution' that cuts off ganker exploitation of the bounty system, while leaving in the random 'potshot on a doomed GCC'd target' exploit. Neither makes sense, and leaving it in (in either case) makes it impossible to maintain a high bounty.

And really, I'm not sure it is really possible to easily distinguish the two cases. Thats what makes them alts. They could be anybody. Thus, I think the cleanest solution would be simply to eliminate payouts for Concord KMs. Like flipping a switch, like the other guy said. The insurance system is able to distinguish between Concord kills and others. No reason why the bounty system couldn't as well.

But really, I don't think CCP is going to do anything. I imagine the free money train for gankers is going to be with us for a long time. +1 for Crimewatch in that respect.

It also made ganking with 1400MM arty a LOT easier in 0.7 systems (where most of the ice mining occurs.) So, +2 for Crimewatch. Now you get guaranteed 2nd volleys EVERY time, instead of once in awhile. Silver lining and all that.


Actually, its pretty easy to identify ALL alts that are being run on a single computer, its the ones using proxys and multiple computers that are tough to identify which would be pretty far in the minority.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#108 - 2013-02-04 01:22:14 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
After all, if they mad enough to put a bounty on you, it means your suicide attack hit home - and further ganks might push them right over the edge and cause them to beat their kids, or better yet, quit EVE.


Thanks for neatly summing up how cowardly risk-free suicide ganks harm EvE as a whole. But hey, who cares about EvE as a whole, long as you get what you want, right? EvE is certainly going to be better off with less players.....Shocked

Though on the otherside of the coin, kudos for pointing out the bounty flaw, rather than going for a epic exploit. Oh wait, you're carrying on doing it right?

Figures.

I hope they fix this somehow. Definately not what the bounty system is all about.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#109 - 2013-02-04 01:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Xen Solarus wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
After all, if they mad enough to put a bounty on you, it means your suicide attack hit home - and further ganks might push them right over the edge and cause them to beat their kids, or better yet, quit EVE.


Thanks for neatly summing up how cowardly risk-free suicide ganks harm EvE as a whole. But hey, who cares about EvE as a whole, long as you get what you want, right? EvE is certainly going to be better off with less players.....Shocked

Though on the otherside of the coin, kudos for pointing out the bounty flaw, rather than going for a epic exploit. Oh wait, you're carrying on doing it right?

Figures.

I hope they fix this somehow. Definately not what the bounty system is all about.


I'd trade suicide ganks for wardecs that actually work. (IE, cannot be evaded by individuals dropping/switching corp).
But easily evaded wardecs are consensual (read: broken) , so I'll keep my suicide ganking, thank you.

Yes. I do not care about other EVE players. I paid for my PLEX with my own spacebux, therefore I am not required to care about others' enjoyment of EVE. I only care about my own enjoyment, which involves smashing Exhumers, podding their pilots, and making them generally feel like EVE is hopeless so they unsubscribe.

Perhaps if I was a Space Commie that voted for Space Obama, I might start caring about them. You know....If I was stupid. But I'm not, so I don't. They can look after themselves. And, perhaps, tank their Exhumers. Lord knows CCP's done 90% of the job for them.

Oh, and yes. I think EVE would be better with less players. I believe that because I enjoyed it much more when there WERE fewer players (and the forums weren't infested with STDs - I mean ISDs. Back when good mods with common sense like CCP Zymurgist were around)
But thats just me. You are free to come to your own conclusions.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#110 - 2013-02-04 02:21:33 UTC
Gank 5 catalysts and the 6th one is free!
Demolishar
United Aggression
#111 - 2013-02-04 02:27:05 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:

Yes. I do not care about other EVE players. I paid for my PLEX with my own spacebux, therefore I am not required to care about others' enjoyment of EVE. I only care about my own enjoyment, which involves smashing Exhumers, podding their pilots, and making them generally feel like EVE is hopeless so they unsubscribe..


Interesting point here. It's generally us griefers, high-rollers, and generally evil people who pay with PLEX. I believe that it's the less affluent and indeed totally unsuccessful majority of the player base that subsidizes our lifestyle. The basic miner, the pathetic mission runner, the worthless grunt in a nullsec blob. These are the people who can do no better than to buy their ISK for real cash, using PLEX, to fund their activities, and who pay their subscription fees with real cash.

I wonder if we will eventually destroy ourselves, and this game. Idealistically, it's completely correct to hold the views you do, but realistically we may be working towards our own annihilation.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#112 - 2013-02-04 03:01:56 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:

Yes. I do not care about other EVE players. I paid for my PLEX with my own spacebux, therefore I am not required to care about others' enjoyment of EVE. I only care about my own enjoyment, which involves smashing Exhumers, podding their pilots, and making them generally feel like EVE is hopeless so they unsubscribe..


Interesting point here. It's generally us griefers, high-rollers, and generally evil people who pay with PLEX. I believe that it's the less affluent and indeed totally unsuccessful majority of the player base that subsidizes our lifestyle. The basic miner, the pathetic mission runner, the worthless grunt in a nullsec blob. These are the people who can do no better than to buy their ISK for real cash, using PLEX, to fund their activities, and who pay their subscription fees with real cash.

I wonder if we will eventually destroy ourselves, and this game. Idealistically, it's completely correct to hold the views you do, but realistically we may be working towards our own annihilation.


Well, after the last couple years, I feel its much more likely that CCP mismanagement *coughDUSTcoughNEX* will kill EVE long before griefers will.

And, to a certain extent, its a circle of life thing.
I don't overly concern myself with the poor, because with a little effort today's poor become tomorrow's middle class. (Unless they worthless self-entitled fuckups.)

Get conscripted into the Red Army for two years. The first year you spend getting beaten. The second, you do the beating.

Likewise, I've been on both sides of the gankstick (Russian Thunder Squad/CONDI anyone?)- and lost far more to ganks than 99% of the crybears I've killed will ever suck out of the Veldspar.

Personally, I think the point of the game is to learn how to make other players YOUR game content. You start out as food, but you work towards reversing tha situation. Comes with experience, but some people never figure it out.

To a certain extent, that was what Ninja looting missions was all about. Was fun, unpredictable. Sometimes you wasted all night scanning botting LVL 4 runners, sometimes you walk right into a trap, other times you nail a shiny aggressive carebear loaded with deadspace mods. And they drop, and you are the King for a day - or the loot fairy screws you and your corpies laugh at you in the comments section of the Killboard.

(Of course today, in my view, the profession is nearly dead - CCP simply took all the effective tools out of the tool box.
CCP: "Yeah, you can still try to break into that safe - but drills and acetylene torches aren't fair. You get to use this cooked sausage. You have 15 minutes before the police arrive, go." Eventually you just give up wasting your time and start ganking to get your tear quota.)
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#113 - 2013-02-24 02:20:17 UTC
Just an update!

Bounty on CODE is down to 566M ISK.
People keep adding to it despite my best efforts to claim them all.


Getting a refund on your gank-hulls: 10-12 Million ISK per gank.
Getting it directly from ganked miner's pockets: Priceless.
Tesal
#114 - 2013-02-24 03:16:53 UTC
The only people who should get a bounty are the people who don't want one.