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Yet Another AFK Cloaking Nerf Related Idea:

Author
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#1 - 2013-02-02 17:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Thutmose I
None of the other threads I found suggested this idea, If it has been suggested and my search just failed to show it, then feel free to flame/lock/whatever this thread.

Suggestion: Allow cloaked ships to show up on D-scan of black ops ships, but not giving ship type, name or exact distance.

say giving the result as follows (name type distance): unknown unknown -

This would allow cloakers to be located, albeit with significant difficulty if they are in a safe spot, but would not affect other forms of cloak use.

This might also give a better reason to ever take a BLOPS onto the field(still an expensive/fragile early warning system), as it would be able to help counter bombing runs (though may only be able to give a few seconds warning, which may not be enough).

Let the complaints/comments begin.

Edit: AFK cloakers will still be mostly safe, so long as they make their safespot right, as it could take a blops a very very long time to locate them, and blops are not very common ships.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-02-02 17:56:22 UTC
Surely this would be so laughably situational that it might as well not exist?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3 - 2013-02-02 18:06:25 UTC
Why is this needed and what problem are you trying to solve?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#4 - 2013-02-02 18:19:03 UTC
Yes, this is a very situational suggestion, but the combat capabilities (LOL) of BLOPS is also very situational, so now we have another very situational use of the ship, maybe increasing the usage.

Reason needed: more BLOPS need to be blown up. Or used for anything other than a bridge for that matter

Problem trying to solve:
1) Not enough BLOPS blow up.
2) Will give something to tell the ones who whine about AFK cloakers: tell them to go manually find the ship with a BLOPS.

I am still trying to come up with a way to make EAFs more useful, but so far nothing comes to mind...
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#5 - 2013-02-02 18:28:46 UTC
Beside the fact that cloacking do not have to be nerfed and on the countrary covert ops option should be improved to give chance to break stagnant situations... but beside this: do you really think an AFK cloacker would be anywhere except in a safe spot?

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2013-02-02 18:29:25 UTC
Thutmose I wrote:
Yes, this is a very situational suggestion, but the combat capabilities (LOL) of BLOPS is also very situational, so now we have another very situational use of the ship, maybe increasing the usage.

Reason needed: more BLOPS need to be blown up. Or used for anything other than a bridge for that matter

Problem trying to solve:
1) Not enough BLOPS blow up.
2) Will give something to tell the ones who whine about AFK cloakers: tell them to go manually find the ship with a BLOPS.

I am still trying to come up with a way to make EAFs more useful, but so far nothing comes to mind...



There's already a buff coming for the blackops, why not see what that does for them first?
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#7 - 2013-02-02 18:41:17 UTC
If this is only about making blops useful they are going to either make 2 of them one jump bridge and one combat or make the current ones better at combat also. In short wait for the T2 balancing

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#8 - 2013-02-02 18:53:00 UTC
The best time to give ideas for small (almost insignificant) features such as the one I proposed is before they go and do a major rebalance. I am simply giving an idea for an additional small change which could be made, and might add some interesting new tactics to the game.

This won't significantly nerf covert cloaking (as does not give exact distance data, so locating the ship will still take a while, even if it is on the same grid), and will probably take a few hours to locate a ship at a safespot with this method, so is not really that much of a nerf to AFK cloaking either, just change safe spot every couple hours (ie don't go afk longer than 2-3 hours with a hostile BLOPS in system).
Mag's
Azn Empire
#9 - 2013-02-02 18:58:35 UTC
Why is this needed and what problem are you trying to solve?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#10 - 2013-02-02 19:18:12 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Why is this needed and what problem are you trying to solve?



Thutmose I wrote:
Yes, this is a very situational suggestion, but the combat capabilities (LOL) of BLOPS is also very situational, so now we have another very situational use of the ship, maybe increasing the usage.

Reason needed: more BLOPS need to be blown up. Or used for anything other than a bridge for that matter

Problem trying to solve:
1) Not enough BLOPS blow up.
2) Will give something to tell the ones who whine about AFK cloakers: tell them to go manually find the ship with a BLOPS.

I am still trying to come up with a way to make EAFs more useful, but so far nothing comes to mind...
RoAnnon
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-02-02 19:59:08 UTC
There is a mechanic in place in-game that already allows you to manually find a cloaked ship: Get within 2000m of them. The cloak drops, and voila, there he is. It works just fine, what's the problem? Cool

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet

Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#12 - 2013-02-02 20:12:18 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
There is a mechanic in place in-game that already allows you to manually find a cloaked ship: Get within 2000m of them. The cloak drops, and voila, there he is. It works just fine, what's the problem? Cool


I have no problem with that method of finding a cloaky, might actually be faster to use that w/ an inty + fighters than a BLOPS with my method (so long as the cloaky was seen on D-scan before it cloaked and went AFK)

What's the problem with allowing BLOPS to provide covert related intel? iirc they can already detect covert cynos in system, so why not cloaked objects?
Kiran
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-02 20:42:37 UTC
There is nothing wrong with afk cloakers. Its part of the game learn to deal with it or shut up.

Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#14 - 2013-02-02 20:55:57 UTC
Kiran wrote:
There is nothing wrong with afk cloakers. Its part of the game learn to deal with it or shut up.



I have nothing against them, I am simply making a suggestion which adds an extra use for Black Ops, as well as an additional tactical tool for PvP.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2013-02-02 21:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Congrats. You have nerfed bombing runs and cloaky spies. D-scan is ridiculously easy.


edit: also, this does nothing to stop afk cloaking. The cloakers will simply make a safe spot between planets or in the middle of the system.
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#16 - 2013-02-02 21:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Thutmose I
ShahFluffers wrote:
Congrats. You have nerfed bombing runs and cloaky spies. D-scan is ridiculously easy.


edit: also, this does nothing to stop afk cloaking. The cloakers will simply make a safe spot between planets or in the middle of the system.


Only nerfs bombing runs by a few seconds warning and only if the target of the bombing run has a BLOPS (fragile and expensive), as for the spies, they are already seen in local, this just gives you a vague idea of the general location of them (if they move every 2 hours or so, they will be completely unaffected by this change).

AFK cloakers already make safe spots to cloak at (or at least should...).

Technically, with some time spent (probably on the order of 2-3 hours minimum, expected to be much more than that) this method will allow for the location of ships in the middle of a system, by using the same method to locate cans anchored in the middle of nowhere, but with the downside of requiring a slow battleship instead of an interceptor/covops.

With the current timer that limits D-scan spamming, this will take quite a lot of work to locate any afk cloaker, thereby not usually being worth the time, especially since if they move every few hours, then all the work finding them is lost. Only really really paranoid people with access to BLOPS will use this to find the average afk cloaker, and if they are the kind to whine about afk cloakers, will probably be to afraid to use this method anyway.

edit:
The first response to this thread is the most appropriate when concerning most players, as they will see it result in too few tactical situations to be useful. If it were not for the fact that BLOPS are going to be rebalanced soon, I probably would not have even considered posting this idea here.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#17 - 2013-02-02 23:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Thutmose I wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Congrats. You have nerfed bombing runs and cloaky spies. D-scan is ridiculously easy.

Only nerfs bombing runs by a few seconds warning and only if the target of the bombing run has a BLOPS (fragile and expensive), as for the spies, they are already seen in local, this just gives you a vague idea of the general location of them (if they move every 2 hours or so, they will be completely unaffected by this change).

Black-Ops ships don't have to worry about their "fragility" when they are sitting in the middle of a 100 strong battleship/RR fleet. And they'd just be used for "traveling" fleets.

And no... it completely ruins bombing runs. As soon as a Black-ops reports Stealth Bombers with in 1 AU of the fleet, the fleet will warp away. Bombers that are attempting to get "bombing points" bookmarked around gates or fleets... they'd be pinned to a 5 degree scan within a minute (again, it's laughably easy to use D-scan to track down people... especially when they're close and you're playing "defense").
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#18 - 2013-02-03 00:12:03 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Thutmose I wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Congrats. You have nerfed bombing runs and cloaky spies. D-scan is ridiculously easy.

Only nerfs bombing runs by a few seconds warning and only if the target of the bombing run has a BLOPS (fragile and expensive), as for the spies, they are already seen in local, this just gives you a vague idea of the general location of them (if they move every 2 hours or so, they will be completely unaffected by this change).

Black-Ops ships don't have to worry about their "fragility" when they are sitting in the middle of a 100 strong battleship/RR fleet. And they'd just be used for "traveling" fleets.

And no... it completely ruins bombing runs. As soon as a Black-ops reports Stealth Bombers with in 1 AU of the fleet, the fleet will warp away. Bombers that are attempting to get "bombing points" bookmarked around gates or fleets... they'd be pinned to a 5 degree scan within a minute (again, it's laughably easy to use D-scan to track down people... especially when they're close and you're playing "defense").


On the point of fragility: If a bombing run is done successfully, then the chances of the BLOPS surviving is much lower, as the alpha would kill them regardless of if they are inside a 100 man fleet.

They just need to set up just off the grid of the fight (ie less than 0.1AU from the fight), then the BLOPS will not know whether they are going to bomb or not.

For the BLOPs detecting them sitting there, if the fleet spent all of its time running from non bombing fleets or scouts, then it would not be able to get any objectives done (ie if they are defending something, they will continually be warping away from it).

Maybe couple this with another nerf to the directional scan's refresh time, but that would then result in many more complaints...
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-02-03 00:14:32 UTC
blops would also be great for bubbled gate camps then as well....

But you can't get a warp to with D scan... so this doesn't really do anything about AFK cloaking - thus I'm not too opposed to it.

Still... it would take BLOPs from not used much at all, to essential components of a fleet....
It might be too powerful
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#20 - 2013-02-03 00:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Thutmose I
Verity Sovereign wrote:
blops would also be great for bubbled gate camps then as well....

But you can't get a warp to with D scan... so this doesn't really do anything about AFK cloaking - thus I'm not too opposed to it.

Still... it would take BLOPs from not used much at all, to essential components of a fleet....
It might be too powerful


You can't get a warpin, but you can locate the target to within a grid or two (the same way used to locate anchored cans at safe spots), then fly drone assisted frigates all over the place till it decloaks.

Any suggestions on how to keep a similar idea but not make it too powerful? So far a scan duration limit seems most reasonable, but would hinder any normal use of the D-scan as well.
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