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I rejoined EVE because of Incarna, and now they're taking it away?!?
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Avila Cracko
#121 - 2011-10-24 08:48:18 UTC
i was looking forward incarna too... and now... Cry

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Inari Kobayashi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2011-10-24 11:16:46 UTC
Originally joined for the FiS but always thought that Incarna would be amazing.

Left for a while and the promise of Incarna brought me back around 12 months ago - still here and haven't really begun to scratch the surface of what this game has to offer.

There is a huge amount of **** being put up on the forums at the moment about the FiS/WiS debate.

The fact is that CCP failed on two counts. First they have not been able to build an engine that can cope with their vision of what Incarna was originally intended to be. Hence the totally failed launch of Incarna (and I suspect the real reason behind scaling back WoD and Incarna recently - they just can't do any of it any time soon even if they wanted to).

The second fail (which is linked to the first) is that they had zero content to go with Incarna at the time of launch and without gameplay the whole thing became utterly pointless.

This is a huge disappointment and I for one really hope that they are devoting time in the background to fix the engine and enable them to revisit Incarna in a year or two when the average pc out there will be able to run an updated carbon engine in all its glory.

If they use this opportunity wisely - give the screaming masses what they want for the next expansion or three and then come back with a properly thought out Incarna expansion with gameplay that is properly integrated into the EVE universe then I would expect the whole FiS/WiS debate to be redundant - it will be EVE.
Severian Carnifex
#123 - 2011-10-24 12:26:26 UTC
incarna is great... and i would like to see it... just... CCP is making too much fouls and ppl express their anger on product... sadly...
Ranzabar
Doomheim
#124 - 2011-10-24 23:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranzabar
Flamespar wrote:
Ranzabar wrote:
WiS is a distraction. Eve is a strategy game, not a social MMO or a FPS. WiS kept CCP occupied with development that has no place in Eve. Promising WiS and CQ as part of a larger strategy to merge with Dust cannot be allowed to sidetrack the fundamental fact that Eve is about ships, in space. That's ships...not avatars, in space playing a bad-ass, tough as nails, 3D chess game on steroids.

Not hanging around in stations, sipping coffee, watching big screen TV's and making faces at each other.


No. EVE is about becoming a full sci-fi simulator, which includes ships, planets, stations and lots of explosions. This message is pretty much the only message that CCP has been consistent on.


Yes, they've been consistent on that message, but they are following their vision for Eve instead of listening to the customers, who could care less about Dust on a PS3 and who just want the best possible all-out 'ships in space' game.

(IMHO of course, your mileage may vary)

Abide
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#125 - 2011-10-25 03:52:31 UTC
Ranzabar wrote:
Yes, they've been consistent on that message, but they are following their vision for Eve instead of listening to the customers, who could care less about Dust on a PS3 and who just want the best possible all-out 'ships in space' game.

(IMHO of course, your mileage may vary)

I think they are listening to the customers, and thats why Incarna is still coming, just not in this expansion.

I came back to EVE because I felt WiS would add more depth to a one dimentional game, and I am FAR
from alone. I think you are way of base in assuming that most customers dont want to see WiS.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#126 - 2011-10-25 04:17:16 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:

I think they are listening to the customers, and thats why Incarna is still coming, just not in this expansion.

I came back to EVE because I felt WiS would add more depth to a one dimentional game, and I am FAR
from alone. I think you are way of base in assuming that most customers dont want to see WiS.


You sir, have just won the internets Big smile
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#127 - 2011-10-25 04:43:11 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Ranzabar wrote:
Yes, they've been consistent on that message, but they are following their vision for Eve instead of listening to the customers, who could care less about Dust on a PS3 and who just want the best possible all-out 'ships in space' game.

(IMHO of course, your mileage may vary)

I think they are listening to the customers, and thats why Incarna is still coming, just not in this expansion.



Please tell me where you heard that? All recent indications are it is done like dinner. The recent Big "H" interview says something to the effect "clearly all of Eve just wants FiS so we've stopped WiS but someday we may eventually get back to it".

If it was still anywhere in plan we would have had at least ONE dev correcting us and telling us it is still coming.

Issler
Flamespar
WarRavens
#128 - 2011-10-25 04:57:42 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:

Please tell me where you heard that? All recent indications are it is done like dinner. The recent Big "H" interview says something to the effect "clearly all of Eve just wants FiS so we've stopped WiS but someday we may eventually get back to it".

If it was still anywhere in plan we would have had at least ONE dev correcting us and telling us it is still coming.

Issler


I agree. Though you think that CCP would save itself a lot of future trouble if it gave us a frank and honest update on the fate of incarna. None of this fluffy 'we may get back to it' crap.

Players are wanting clarification on Hilmars comments mainly.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#129 - 2011-10-25 05:21:38 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

Please tell me where you heard that? All recent indications are it is done like dinner. The recent Big "H" interview says something to the effect "clearly all of Eve just wants FiS so we've stopped WiS but someday we may eventually get back to it".

If it was still anywhere in plan we would have had at least ONE dev correcting us and telling us it is still coming.

Issler


I agree. Though you think that CCP would save itself a lot of future trouble if it gave us a frank and honest update on the fate of incarna. None of this fluffy 'we may get back to it' crap.

Players are wanting clarification on Hilmars comments mainly.


Useful from another thread:

CCP Guard wrote:
We´ve built a lot of solid character tech that can be used for all kinds of great game play in the future. Right now our focus will be on classic EVE game play, as we've committed to, so all that is on ice while we figure out what we want to do with it. And more importantly...what you guys want us to do with it.


Issler
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2011-10-25 06:12:07 UTC
Personally I believe eve needs to Expands on some of the current features

Keep FIS going.
PI, Faction warfare, Sov System, A couple of new ships, make the current systems deeper. Entice players to revisit the old areas and play with the added tools, which changes those dynamics and keep it fresh.

WIS is a major Port that will expand the tools to be used EVE, with out having to deal with the restrictions of being stuck as a "Ship"
Taking the game from A cold chunk of metal floating in space ruling the world with Spread sheets to something more tacktile, more intimate.
Sadly I think Eve worked to hard in making eve Look Too real, which cost the a lot in assets to develop which left no development time for the Tool Eve would give us to build our own universe.
For example if we were able to keep our old avatars, and the work was spent on developing establishments and build the interaction interface. Once a core was completed plus a few extra refines, then the work on Up grading the graphic content, replacing the old with the new. I think this would have gone over best.

In summary Eve was putting too many resources into being making WIS the best, Diverting resources from easy to accomplish multiple items to, expensive top of the line feature.

PLEASE CCP keep 1 team on expanding WIS. Even if we are only allowed 1 Establishment per station. and only in Low and Null sec. It would be a start. Something for us to play with. The Technology is finally there?

Let us WIS lovers sell WIS to the rest of eve, Allow us to play with in it. So Suggest "Tools" to be built to increase the interaction.


Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Avila Cracko
#131 - 2011-10-25 09:16:41 UTC
i hope that WiS is not shelved... i hope we will see it again after winter expansion...

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Ranzabar
Doomheim
#132 - 2011-10-25 14:00:00 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Ranzabar wrote:
Yes, they've been consistent on that message, but they are following their vision for Eve instead of listening to the customers, who could care less about Dust on a PS3 and who just want the best possible all-out 'ships in space' game.

(IMHO of course, your mileage may vary)

I think they are listening to the customers, and thats why Incarna is still coming, just not in this expansion.

I came back to EVE because I felt WiS would add more depth to a one dimentional game, and I am FAR
from alone. I think you are way of base in assuming that most customers dont want to see WiS.


Maybe, but my opinion is formed from several things, not the least of which is Hilmar's recent statements and CCP's restructuring. If WiS/CQ was implemented properly with content and performance, and the ability to choose how you're interested in playing instead of being forced into the CQ model, this customer backlash would never happened.

I just think it was hamfisted the way it was done and CCP heard that loud and clear from a big enough block of players to rethink their strategy.

You play how you like it. But thousands of players bailed. Says something doesn't it?

Abide
Xoria Krint
The Angelic
#133 - 2011-10-25 14:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Xoria Krint
Cry more newbie. Eve is not about walking around in your avatar. Eve is about sandbox and spaceships. One day you will probably be able to hug your IRL mate in a station somewhere in New Eden - but there is so many things to fix and add before CCP should even think about getting back to Incarna again.

Once upon a time CCP knew what players wanted. They where the players. They talked and listened to the community.
Avila Cracko
#134 - 2011-10-25 14:47:06 UTC
how i "love" ppl stuck in 20th century...

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#135 - 2011-10-25 14:52:37 UTC
Has CCP ever finished a feature in EvE?

I know it's an evolving world, but EvE is rife with half assedness at every turn.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#136 - 2011-10-25 15:02:38 UTC
Oriaita Lee wrote:
Now that infamous door isn't going to go anywhere for YEARS.

I rejoined EVE after a long break so I could finally play the Space Barbie that they promised was initially going to be released in 2008.

what this is I don't even......

I don't care if they dumb the graphics down to get the result - if it looks like Privateer or Wing Commander, or even Minecraft or Nethack, FINE - but I want to be able to meet other avatars. Preferably wearing some cool stuff without paying through the nose for the privilege.


I don't care about ship spinning (my CQ runs fine, graphics card sweats a bit but for me it's worth it), new ships (can barely fly any of the current ones), new features, etc.

If CCP wanted to make me really happy, they could:

* Top priority - some way for avatars to meet, ASAP. Otherwise, all your other Incarna stuff is pointless and will continue to look pointless and embarrassing until you do this. Establishments would be great, but if they must, they can wait - even if it's just one-on-one meetings for now, to save CPU, I'd settle for that. You should be able to at the very least invite one other person into your Captains' Quarters. Don't tell me that would be impossible to code, if it weren't for the EULA a bored fan could probably knock up something like that in a week.


If I got even some of that wishlist, I'd be thrilled and I'd start subscribing 12 months in advance - and probably even donating a little bit of extra money whenever I could just to help CCP re-employ some of those poor lost staff. CCP, you've talked to the endless whiners who hate Incarna and want their spaceship game back, now please talk to me. Cheers.



this is sooooo not the game for you.
can barely fly????
seriously GTFO, you have no business to suggest EVEs direction
nahtoh
Vega Farscape
#137 - 2011-10-25 15:39:54 UTC
Ramma Lamma DingDong wrote:
One can only hope that CCP will figure out that it is the well established, wealthy, jaded, never happy with anything veterans that are killing the game before they are allowed to devour it completely.

Seriously, just try being a new player who has never heard anything about this game. It's not friendly at all. It's the opposite of the definition of gaming which is supposed to be...fun.

What makes it so hard to get and retain new players? Other players.

What happens every time they try and introduce new features to make the game more "newbie friendly?" Massive QQ and tantrums from, you guessed it, other players.


Cry me a river, build me a bridge and get the fu8k over it. Its supposed to be a hard unforgiving game, its teh main attraction.

lets go over just some of the stuff thats been done to make it better for new players.

1. redoing of the NGE, no issues just make it skipable.
2. increase of skill points for new toons, no issues just make sure things are explained so the SPs don't go to waste.
3. removal of the above and faster skill training times for a period for new toons, again no issues.
4. removal of learning skills (woohoo no more wanting to punch/pod to the stone age annoying "wahh i have to train these skills before any others" clueless dipshits) absoluty no issues.

In no way does WIS make the new players life any fecking easier. Unlike that off the top of my head list above.

Some of us like the difficltly of this game, back when i started it was a really short (and frankly not that helpful NGE), which triggered my "wow i can do anythign!!!! how cool is this!!!!" reflex.

Over all WIS? massive "meh" once I was allowed to turn the damm thing off, not happy when it was forced option.
Pollo Rico
Pollo Hermano
#138 - 2011-10-25 15:46:52 UTC
Severian Carnifex wrote:
incarna is great... and i would like to see it... just... CCP is making too much fouls and ppl express their anger on product... sadly...


Pollo wonders what is so great about Incarna. Was it station walking? Was it ship spinning(oh wait)? Could be the new sac skin. Anyways what was so great about it?

Check this out: Hillmar Interview

Hilmar Pétursson wrote:
....What becomes of the store and Incarna is something that's not a big priority right now, but there may come a time when it makes sense to revisit that.


According to Hilmar, Incarna is not a priority. So get over it. Pollo approves.

http://tinyurl.com/Pollo-Approves
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#139 - 2011-10-25 16:05:06 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Ranzabar wrote:
Yes, they've been consistent on that message, but they are following their vision for Eve instead of listening to the customers, who could care less about Dust on a PS3 and who just want the best possible all-out 'ships in space' game.

(IMHO of course, your mileage may vary)

I think they are listening to the customers, and thats why Incarna is still coming, just not in this expansion.

I came back to EVE because I felt WiS would add more depth to a one dimentional game, and I am FAR
from alone. I think you are way of base in assuming that most customers dont want to see WiS.


Yeah cause all those ppl in 0.0 are so interested in going to high sec or to low sec or to the station areas in null (instead of doing their thing in their empire) to go play poker...

lol
ya, you believe what you want

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2011-10-26 01:45:48 UTC
Well guys I think we need to become the Positive Vocal Community for WIS

Show CCP and the FIS Lovers that WIS has a following of Dedicated evangelists who think that WIS needs to Be continually worked on in junction with the multiple other elements of eve.

How WIS can Enriched not only the new player as they can now associate with an avatar, but also add depth to the FIS portion of the game. There is only so much a Pod pilot can do from the pod.

We shall raise the Flag of “We need more iteration” like so many other sections of eve. We understand that eve needs to still focus on being a space ship game in order to stand out in the crown, but it also needs to complete with other Forms of entertainment.
We need to drop the barriers to entry into eve, the biggest psychological problem of only being a ship is a big one, one where WIS aims to knock down. (learning curve was once it, but CCP has done a great job on the tutorials.)

We are not blind like some. WIS is not an all or nothing endeavour:
--> FIS needs to become deeper in content.
----> The Sov mechanic need to be played with and expanded on.
----> Faction Warfare needs more meat.
----> PI, is a nice start but is only a skeleton of what it can be.
----> T3 is where the new ships are at,
---->Bugs Need to be continually Reduced
---->etc.

We believe there needs to be a slow and steady progress on WIS. In time it will move from “Nice distraction to apart of the game that FIS lovers can't wait for what WIS will bring to gunner sites.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships