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Intergalactic Summit

 
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After Action Report: Mito, YC115.01.29, circa 20:00 hours
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Lucas Raholan
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
#81 - 2013-02-01 11:53:57 UTC
Solarienne wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
You're being unprofessional, Solarienne.

So what if foreigners are asking questions? It's for us to decide what questions need to asked (if any), and it's for us to represent our people with dignity and honour. Taunting somebody over getting shot is neither dignified nor honourable.

This squabbling is childish and reflects poorly on the State. If you can't respond to foreign commentary with calmness and professionalism, then for the Winds' sake learn how to endure it in silence instead.


You give them too much leeway, Hakatain, but it's your thread. As you wish.



I really did think the State were better then this Solarienne, clearly not.
We are not trying to undermine the State, we are mearly intrested into the reasons why you are attacking your own planets, as mentioned by a Caldai Navy representative in the Summit shortly before he IDA attack indcated they it could be present in other Nations...us foreigners given that infomation would therefore be keenly intrested in what the situation is.

Shitposts so bad CONCORD gave me a 50 billion ISK bounty
Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-02-01 12:15:29 UTC
You all seem to be forgetting that none of you have the authority to demand information from the State authorities. The fact of the matter is that unless the State deems it necessary to inform you then you will just have to deal with being stone walled. I know that this must be hard for some of you who are used to being handed everything to you on demand. To those people i say this.

Deal with it.

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Anslo
Scope Works
#83 - 2013-02-01 14:04:05 UTC
Aquila Shadow wrote:
You all seem to be forgetting that none of you have the authority to demand information from the State authorities. The fact of the matter is that unless the State deems it necessary to inform you then you will just have to deal with being stone walled. I know that this must be hard for some of you who are used to being handed everything to you on demand. To those people i say this.

Deal with it.


So what you're saying is we should deal with the fact that the Caldari Navy can go and kill anyone, civilian or otherwise, as long as it's an order. So what you're saying, along with the rest of your ilk here, is that "yeah maybe we did kill civilians. It's none of your business. Deal with it."

Is that what you're saying?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Ohminen Sin
Guristas
Guristas Pirates
#84 - 2013-02-01 14:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ohminen Sin
Anslo wrote:
Aquila Shadow wrote:
You all seem to be forgetting that none of you have the authority to demand information from the State authorities. The fact of the matter is that unless the State deems it necessary to inform you then you will just have to deal with being stone walled. I know that this must be hard for some of you who are used to being handed everything to you on demand. To those people i say this.

Deal with it.


So what you're saying is we should deal with the fact that the Caldari Navy can go and kill anyone, civilian or otherwise, as long as it's an order. So what you're saying, along with the rest of your ilk here, is that "yeah maybe we did kill civilians. It's none of your business. Deal with it."

Is that what you're saying?


Pretty much.

I just find amusement in the fact that people are calling the Guristas out over our action. We saved several thousand lives. Those lives were that of State citizens. State citizens who were almost murdered by their own government. State citizens who now realize the hollow meaning of the very term "State citizen" and have decided to drop it and work for us, for higher pay, more incentive and a better life.

That's okay though, you guys pretend that things are fine, and pretend you're not being lead on by a tactically and politically incompetent leader who doesn't have a clue what to do with what's going on in his own head, let alone his administration.

There are holes everywhere. Security, law, border control, corporate security forces, government, even the CPD. Mark my words, the longer you choose to support this moron and keep the State weakened by his incompetent leadership, the more we're gonna milk the State for everything we can get out of it.

Keep doing your thing boys and girls, and keep up the infighting and civil unrest. We're cutting a thick bottom line out of it all.
Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-02-01 14:31:21 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Aquila Shadow wrote:
You all seem to be forgetting that none of you have the authority to demand information from the State authorities. The fact of the matter is that unless the State deems it necessary to inform you then you will just have to deal with being stone walled. I know that this must be hard for some of you who are used to being handed everything to you on demand. To those people i say this.

Deal with it.


So what you're saying is we should deal with the fact that the Caldari Navy can go and kill anyone, civilian or otherwise, as long as it's an order. So what you're saying, along with the rest of your ilk here, is that "yeah maybe we did kill civilians. It's none of your business. Deal with it."

Is that what you're saying?


That's exactly what I'm saying, you can yell and scream and carry on as much as you like, the point still stands that you have no authority to demand that the State give you what your looking for, this isn't the Federation were that sort of behavior is rewarded with cookies. Lets not pretend that the Federation Navy is any less innocent when it comes to the deaths of civilians. We both know what goes on in the war zone on both sides cant be governed by any rule of engagement. Lets also not pretend that the Guristas are angels, with one hand they claim to save the lives of those they probably hired to betray the State, and with the other they use the stolen technology to manufacture their own immortal soldiers.

It honestly astounds me that this debate has gone on as long as it has.

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Anslo
Scope Works
#86 - 2013-02-01 14:34:06 UTC
Aquila Shadow wrote:

That's exactly what I'm saying, you can yell and scream and carry on as much as you like, the point still stands that you have no authority to demand that the State give you what your looking for, this isn't the Federation were that sort of behavior is rewarded with cookies. Lets not pretend that the Federation Navy is any less innocent when it comes to the deaths of civilians. We both know what goes on in the war zone on both sides cant be governed by any rule of engagement. Lets also not pretend that the Guristas are angels, with one hand they claim to save the lives of those they probably hired to betray the State, and with the other they use the stolen technology to manufacture their own immortal soldiers.


Alright, cool. You go on killing your civilians then. I'll be helping them escape to wherever they'd prefer to go at no cost.

To any baseliners seeing this message, contact me. You have options. Don't lay down and die because your "owners" said so.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Tsuni Aina
Mordu's Legion
Mordu's Legion Command
#87 - 2013-02-01 14:34:09 UTC
Well, I'm glad Muryia asked me to look in on the situation.

This provides me with enough entertaining reading to last all day.

Provists, Guristas and guns, oh my.
Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-02-01 14:36:52 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Aquila Shadow wrote:

That's exactly what I'm saying, you can yell and scream and carry on as much as you like, the point still stands that you have no authority to demand that the State give you what your looking for, this isn't the Federation were that sort of behavior is rewarded with cookies. Lets not pretend that the Federation Navy is any less innocent when it comes to the deaths of civilians. We both know what goes on in the war zone on both sides cant be governed by any rule of engagement. Lets also not pretend that the Guristas are angels, with one hand they claim to save the lives of those they probably hired to betray the State, and with the other they use the stolen technology to manufacture their own immortal soldiers.


Alright, cool. You go on killing your civilians then. I'll be helping them escape to wherever they'd prefer to go at no cost.

To any baseliners seeing this message, contact me. You have options. Don't lay down and die because your "owners" said so.


You read the first five word and ignored the rest didn't you.

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Anslo
Scope Works
#89 - 2013-02-01 14:39:21 UTC
Aquila Shadow wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Aquila Shadow wrote:

That's exactly what I'm saying, you can yell and scream and carry on as much as you like, the point still stands that you have no authority to demand that the State give you what your looking for, this isn't the Federation were that sort of behavior is rewarded with cookies. Lets not pretend that the Federation Navy is any less innocent when it comes to the deaths of civilians. We both know what goes on in the war zone on both sides cant be governed by any rule of engagement. Lets also not pretend that the Guristas are angels, with one hand they claim to save the lives of those they probably hired to betray the State, and with the other they use the stolen technology to manufacture their own immortal soldiers.


Alright, cool. You go on killing your civilians then. I'll be helping them escape to wherever they'd prefer to go at no cost.

To any baseliners seeing this message, contact me. You have options. Don't lay down and die because your "owners" said so.


You read the first five word and ignored the rest didn't you.


Oh I read it, all I saw was more stone walling and honestly I'm sick of it.

Say I don't belong, call me a jaijii or whatever you want, I honestly don't care anymore. I've heard things from my own people ground side, people are dying, you people are killing them from what I can tell.

Say what you want, say it's none of my business, but non-coms don't deserve death from above. So I'll make sure they don't have to.

Deal with it.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
BloodBird
Duty.
Stay Feral
#90 - 2013-02-01 14:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: BloodBird
Korsavius wrote:
BloodBird wrote:
I'm used to a far higher standard of conduct than what has been shown in here. That is at it's core what I'm asking: "Why are your behavior sub-par to my expectations?"

With all due respect, no one is required to behave to your expectations, including my fellow kirjuun.


And with all due respect to you, "my" standard for Caldari behavior is no higher or lower than the standard that has been demonstrated to me in the past. If your fellow Caldari from a few years past could manage, I assumed it was not to much to ask your fellows from today can.

Apparently I was wrong. My mistake.

Korsavius wrote:
That said,
BloodBird wrote:
So in the end, I wonder where the Caldari mannerisms I am used to have gone, if Solarienne's reply is the new standard to be expected from the State's citizens, and if so, how this came to be.

Sometimes the brightest flowers aren't always the most pleasant smelling. That doesn't mean, however, that pleasant smelling flowers do not exist.


Good words of wisdom. I will try to keep this in mind as I labor to ignore this dishonorable rabble in the future, if possible.

Solarienne wrote:


You give yourself too much credit. I didn't even bother to glance up from my duties as you threw it out there. If you consider patriotism and the pursuit of cultural integrity to be 'edgy', your nation is closer to hedonistic collapse than even I had assumed. Duty and saying what must be said is a burden and an honour, not a fad.


At this point I likely have a better grasp of what the words Duty and Patriotism even mean than you do.

However, thank you. It would seem the bar for acceptable mannerisms and conduct has indeed been lowered, and this is useful for me to know - I will waste no more of my time trying to show you how pitiful your conduct is. You surely cannot see this yourself.

Enjoy your career, Provist.
Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#91 - 2013-02-01 14:40:25 UTC
I should also point out at this point that the only people to say that the planet was bombarded were the Guristas, the defectors and some Scope rumors. Probable the three most useless sources i can think off.

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
BloodBird
Duty.
Stay Feral
#92 - 2013-02-01 14:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: BloodBird
Desiderya wrote:
BloodBird,

Stop wallowing in self-loathing and self-importance. It is starting to get disgusting. If you are feeling that hurt please suffer in quiescence.

Your line of questioning was in no way aimed at the mobilization and pondering whether it was a thread to the federation but instead it was a bout of propaganda generating, much like the Guristas did. Hence my comparison. The very outrage - entirely focused on how direct actions against innocents could be done - was the dominating theme from your fellow compatriots earlier, hence the direct and honest response from Ishenko-haani.

If you take offense by that - tough luck. It's the IGS, I guess you have to cope with opinions different than your own.


For your information, the only disgusting thing here is your utter lack of reasoning ability, extrapolating from the words of my compatriots what I myself think and what my message was intended as. I am not my compatriots and my messages should have been made very clear by now. As for your claims about my "self-loathing", "self-importance", "spreading of propaganda" and so on, If you insist in laboring under the delusion that I am harboring hostile intent towards you or your State, or are suffering any emotional wounds from this exchange despite statements to the contrary, I see no harm in letting you continue doing so.

Like your comrade Solarienne, I wish you an enjoyable career, and will spend my time more productively than trying to reason with you.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

BloodBird wrote:
Pot and kettle argument. Honestly, the topic at hand for the person you responded to was "where was the justification for the actions commited by the CPD, we can't seem to find it" and you counter argue with pointing out the shady nature of the SDII.

We are not discussing the SDII in here. If you wish to do so, feel free to start a new topic about them. In here however, you can answer the questions regarding the actions of the CPD, instead of trying to deflect the issue with an easily-transparent tactic.


BloodBird-jaijii


This is a great way to start a conversation - you should do this again soon.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
The commentary made by myself was on the topic of extralegal or extrajudicial action brought up by Mlle. Vero. The SDII were provided as an example of an extralegal entity who operate outside the scope of the law of their nation (A fact not denied). The CPD however are not an extralegal entity in this instance since:

a) They have not breached the laws or sovereignty of a CEP member corporation.

b) They are a CEP approved agency no different to the CBT or Caldari Navy who were fulfilling their mandate on behalf of the CEP in the defence of the national security of the Caldari State.


I am assuming here that you are an intelligent woman, Pilot.

If so you know as well as I do that this whole retort of yours is entirely irrelevant.

I will repeat:

We are not discussing the SDII in here. If you wish to do so, feel free to start a new topic about them. In here however, you can answer the questions regarding the actions of the CPD, instead of trying to deflect the issue with an easily-transparent tactic.

Alternatively, ignore the question.

Aquila Shadow wrote:
You all seem to be forgetting that none of you have the authority to demand information from the State authorities. The fact of the matter is that unless the State deems it necessary to inform you then you will just have to deal with being stone walled. I know that this must be hard for some of you who are used to being handed everything to you on demand. To those people i say this.

Deal with it.


This retort is utterly redundant, it has already been made. Several times.

@ Anslo

Pilot, it don't matter what he is saying. If the Caldari State's authorities decide tomorrow to glass every world inside their own borders and then obliterate every space-born installation, that will be entirely and utterly up to them. If the Caldari decide to wipe themselves out, it should not be any concern of ours. Should they decide to try and glass our worlds as well, we exterminate them like the invader vermin they are, until then they sail their own ocean alone until they involve themselves in our lives and our affairs. It is not our job to involve ourselves in their affairs for any reason other than our own self-preservation. Try to leave it at that.
Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-02-01 14:51:54 UTC
Anslo wrote:


Oh I read it, all I saw was more stone walling and honestly I'm sick of it.

Say I don't belong, call me a jaijii or whatever you want, I honestly don't care anymore. I've heard things from my own people ground side, people are dying, you people are killing them from what I can tell.

Say what you want, say it's none of my business, but non-coms don't deserve death from above. So I'll make sure they don't have to.

Deal with it.


People have been dying in the thousands in Black rise and placid for years now, why do you care about a bunch of Caldari defectors? Honestly the Gallente have the most amazing selective conscious i have ever seen. They don't even bat an eye when the civilians in the war zone are killed off by the uniform of the month but as soon as something happens in a foreign Nation they are up in arms and demanding information from like they are talking to the Federal senate.

The hypocrisy is astounding

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Anslo
Scope Works
#94 - 2013-02-01 15:00:42 UTC
Aquila Shadow wrote:
People have been dying in the thousands in Black rise and placid for years now, why do you care about a bunch of Caldari defectors? Honestly the Gallente have the most amazing selective conscious i have ever seen. They don't even bat an eye when the civilians in the war zone are killed off by the uniform of the month but as soon as something happens in a foreign Nation they are up in arms and demanding information from like they are talking to the Federal senate.

The hypocrisy is astounding


And your ability to assume that I'm even involved in what goes on in Placid and Black rise is even more astounding. I took a good, long break from space to realize all life is precious, no matter the Empire. You can bet I'd be doing the same thing here in the Fed if the FIO started shooting up civilian cities for no damn reason.

What happens in Black Rise and Placid sucks, it really does. I try to help when civilian centers get boned out there. But aside from that, combatants are the one's who die. They choose to be involved in this war. Civilians do not. So stop bringing up what happens in Low to this situation, cause you know as well as I do it ain't the same damn thing.

They live in High Sec, they would expect to be safe ESPECIALLY when their Navy is around. Then suddenly, they start getting shot up. Also I like how you call them defectors now. Like they had a choice? Stop being a sheep and wake up. Your State is boning your own people, and your nodding and smiling along with

My offer of evac for baseliners still stand. If you feel in danger, let me know and I'll take you somewhere safe, or somewhere you'd like to go. You're not alone in this.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#95 - 2013-02-01 15:13:52 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
I am assuming here that you are an intelligent woman, Pilot.

If so you know as well as I do that this whole retort of yours is entirely irrelevant.

I will repeat:

We are not discussing the SDII in here. If you wish to do so, feel free to start a new topic about them. In here however, you can answer the questions regarding the actions of the CPD, instead of trying to deflect the issue with an easily-transparent tactic.

Alternatively, ignore the question.


BloodBird-jaijii

The SDII were, as I said, brought up as part of discussions relating to the assertion that the CPD were conducting extralegal and extrajudicial actions in the Caldari State which relates directly to the matter at hand and which I addressed further in this IGS communique, as can be seen here.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Arve Vesren
Doomheim
#96 - 2013-02-01 15:14:01 UTC
The Directive Enforcement Department is watching the situation within the State very closely.

I do however find myself confused by anyone who would consider Intara Direct Action as a corporation hostile to the Caldari State.

I offer the following publicly available information for review:

Directive Enforcement Department

Archive - CN-870/665

Corporation: Intara Direct Action
SCC Identification Number: 1000-239
Registered Headquarters: Vuorrassi I - Moon 1 - Caldari Business Tribunal
Registered Chief Executive Officer: Vilvura Okuta
Oversight: Lontrek Regional Authority / Chief Executive Panel - Deferred to the Caldari Provincial Directorate
Registered Governing/Legislative Body: Caldari Provincial Directorate - Caldari State


From what is visible and publicly releasable from Directive Enforcement Department Records, Intara Direct Action holds no bad standing with the Chief Executive Panel, or Caldari Navy.

While IDA does often use questionable tactics which could constitute loopholes in Caldari Corporate regulation, and has been investigated on a corporate level two times in the last seven years, once for potential Corporate Larceny, along with unauthorized discharge of firearms on a civilian station platform, no warrant for arrest of any personnel has been issued and no formal charges have been filed.

From the perspective of the Directive Enforcement Department, this is currently an issue for the Caldari administration to resolve. However if such instances become widespread and lead to civil unrest, it will be the duty of the Directive Enforcement Department under Article 2 of the Yulai Convention to step in and restore order.
Arve Vesren
Doomheim
#97 - 2013-02-01 15:22:53 UTC
Aquila Shadow wrote:
I should also point out at this point that the only people to say that the planet was bombarded were the Guristas, the defectors and some Scope rumors. Probable the three most useless sources i can think off.


This is the first time that I ever recollect having said this, but the Directive Enforcement Department can confirm Guristas reports.

DED transponders report that Vellaine III was bombarded from orbit on three occasions on January 29 at the following times:

15:37 - 15:51 - Duration - 00:14:31
16:06 - 16:14 - Duration - 00:08:11
16:21 - 16:28 - Duration - 00:07:37
Anslo
Scope Works
#98 - 2013-02-01 16:05:20 UTC
What? No more commentary? Nothing to say?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#99 - 2013-02-01 16:18:33 UTC
People do other things Anslo, and the forum format of the IGS does not lend itself to immediate demands for answers. Be patient.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#100 - 2013-02-01 16:59:26 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
If you have further inquiries ask me. I am out of time right now but I will be available at a later time, and I don't feel that my reply here is entirely sufficient, but it will have to make do for now.


Thank you, sir. Your reply is sufficient. I apologize for asking for it; I have neurological damage which makes following long arguments difficult. You have clarified your position admirably.