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Northern Moon goo
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Hemmo Paskiainen
#61 - 2013-01-30 21:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
turmajin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
turmajin wrote:
You really dont need that big a force just to take out moon harvesters,and i suspect it would irate the hell out of the owners to constantly see their moon tech income disrupted.Theres alot of non HBC or unaligned corps who just might enjoy griefing a well known griefing corp/ alliance lol.So good on the OP for thinking this information might be usefull,and maybe giving those corp an enjoyable something to do if they wish / want.Maybe RvB and EVE UNI,will want to do ops on PvP raiding /POS grinding or FW just to pull the 0.0 boys chains lol Have to admit seeing Goons whine about it on the forums would be sweet lol

Moon harvesters go inside the pos shields. Have fun grinding down all of these small POS to RF and then get chased away by a 40 person BC gang when you come back to kill it.


But you wouldnt come back to kill it ,would you.If your smart youll hit a whole new set,,then another and so on and repeat on some.Eventually the owning alliance would have its forces scattered all over the place,and ,and you cant be strong everywhere.Then you can pounce and stand a good chance of success,and maybe more fights like the one last weekend will develop


1 Word: force projection,

Just equip the 2weekly pos donkey char with a cyno and get a titan or chain in range: voila free blob fun pvp. Get 4:1 blob in your favour, light cyno, send in dictors hic and ze blob. Massacer them, jump in titan bridge back jump back and you back within the hour.....

Peanuts

About ze proof, if it exist they wouldnt be empoyed... funny i see the same counter argument comming, its exacly what bob used to say. An employee as leader of an alliance.... look at the stuff happening, the anomaly nerf in dominion, the tech, the supers, 100mn tengu nerf, its soo obvius that it aint funny anymore.... i wonder if most people are just so blind or they dont care. (If i had all the benefits, i wouldnt care).... so where do ppl say the blob is again? 70k accounts that are benifitional to damage controlling what i just said.....

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-01-30 21:56:30 UTC
I just got Sun Tzu'd on GD, do I win a prize now or get accepted into some elite club?

I feel like I've passed a milestone in my Eve career here...

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
turmajin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-01-30 23:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: turmajin
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
More nullsec strategy and tactics from NPC corp specialists.


Someone who is knowledgeable about war in general can most certainly apply that knowledge to war in EvE, even without years of prior experience. What I jokingly (?) proposed wasn't EvE specific - it was just one of the oldest tricks in the oldest of books.

If he sends reinforcements everywhere, he will everywhere be weak - Sun Tzu

So if a force could sneak in a dozen stealth ships and mix one or two cynos in there, then do a simultaneous strike on a dozen moon and thus triggered all their alerts at once, then it's simply a matter of figuring out which of those alerts the victim does not/can not respond to quickly enough - and then launch your real attack there.

Preemptively do "scare" strikes without an actual assault for two weeks straight and you may just lull them into ignoring you altogether, not realizing when the real attack finally comes.

See, blob warfare is something you can see simply playing "Sword of the Stars" and paying attention to the Hivers. The strength of that race is that they can teleport their fleets to any system they control in a single turn, which means that they tend to just make one giant fleet to solve all their problems (sound familiar?). The way to beat them is to make sure you're hitting multiple locations at once. They'll either end up unable to protect to everything, or dividing themselves into groups small enough to defeat in regular combat.

If you really wanted to do guerrilla actions against the null-sec blobs there are other ways as well. For example, go after their ice-bot fleets and deprive them of jump fuel. Use your own blob to reverse-gank their gate camps at random and then just leave, thus causing fear & frustration with their lower-ranked guards who get stuck with that job. Have your spies on the inside pay special attention to their cyno pilots and you pretty much know everything they're going to do, or be able to do at least. And so on.

The main thing is this: The solution to fighting a Titan blob is not to fight it at all. Instead simply realize that Titan blobs are only possible through the presence of a massive support structure that is far more vulnerable than the null-sec alliances will ever be willing to admit (You can find plenty of examples of this amusing sense of denial before this post, and many more will most certainly follow it as well).

Exacatly the point i also made obvisously the average Goon hasnt served in the military ,or read SUN TZU ect.We have had massive corp before now CLS was at one point huge .You dont engage them ,you frustrate them ,move them around like headless chickens ,and then engage only when you have major advantages.Tech moons are just a good way of doing this imo,as they will feel obliged to defend them,and keep rebuilding them ,Having a massive ISK income ,they have become used to it ect.If its disrupted or diminished ect.It hurts
JD No7
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#64 - 2013-01-31 00:00:27 UTC
Interceptor fleet checking in. 5 of those bad boys reinforced. Fleet 'Sun Tzu' taking the weekend off!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#65 - 2013-01-31 01:54:23 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
So if a force could sneak in a dozen stealth ships and mix one or two cynos in there, then do a simultaneous strike on a dozen moon and thus triggered all their alerts at once, then it's simply a matter of figuring out which of those alerts the victim does not/can not respond to quickly enough - and then launch your real attack there.


Except that the earnest defense of a POS doesn't happen when it's being RFed. It happens when it comes out of RF. So you'd need to simultaneously RF dozens of POSes (and by that point, odds are that someone would come check out one of them, notice your dread fleet, and form up something that they're sure to win with because you have split up your forces to hit each POS at the same time).

Like I said earlier, Nobody cares about the "your POS is under attack" mails.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
turmajin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-01-31 13:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: turmajin
Again it seems people cant grasp the basics of a gurillia stratagy.As i said you dont engage a mightier power at first ,you frustrate and move the opposing forces around.No one cares about your POS is under attack mails,good.But i gaureentee put a half dozen POS'es in RF they will start to care.,put another half dozen or more in RF the following day,they will care even more.So they mobalise and deploy to defend these POS'es .What do you do hit the ice fields ,and destroy as many mining exhumers /barges as possible,and with luck RF any POS'es there,then hit more moons,in a totally new sector.Now the opposion,deploys to defend 2 types of target,What do you do hit the commications JBs ect,to limit their movement or the gate campsAgain now they have a problem, different types of target all vital.As you keep doing this eventually the opposition is either going to try and defend everywhere,thus making them weak in places.Or just defend core assets.Leaving you free then to take out the non core assets .History even to the modern day shows us a good gurrillia startagy will bring down the mightest military power in time .Dont believe me referance Vietnam.Afganistan,China and the african inderpendance wars .Remember Titans /blobs ect are relient on a infastructure ,no ice ,no jump fuel,no JBs ,and movement restricted / slowed for support fleets,no income no replacing lost ships .Your targets arnt the actual ships / blobs,but what supports and makes them work.Cripple that and they just shiney toys.We already have ninja salvaging,and ganking, ect why not ninja POS RFing lol.A very good way for CCP to enable this would to make black ops BSs immune to cyro jammers ,now that really would allow real black ops operations play lol.and opens up a whole can of possibilities.0.0 players are always asking for more targets,usually against those that cant defend themselves.Wonder if they are going to be in favour of this idea,DOUGHT IT as it lets anyone hurt them by taking out their system infastructure and cyro jammers allowing blobs to hit them easily.in core/ vital systems.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#67 - 2013-01-31 14:23:48 UTC
turmajin wrote:
Again it seems people cant grasp the basics of a gurillia stratagy.

No, the problem here is that you seem to have absolutly no knowledge of the eve mechanics or eve warfare in general.

But if you are so convinced that your proposed tactis will work what stops you from gathering a group and set them into motion?
Just telling everyone that this would totaly destroy the evil dudes in the north wont change anything.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2013-01-31 14:27:50 UTC
turmajin wrote:
Again it seems people cant grasp the basics of a gurillia stratagy.As i said you dont engage a mightier power at first ,you frustrate and move the opposing forces around.No one cares about your POS is under attack mails,good.But i gaureentee put a half dozen POS'es in RF they will start to care.,put another half dozen or more in RF the following day,they will care even more.So they mobalise and deploy to defend these POS'es .What do you do hit the ice fields ,and destroy as many mining exhumers /barges as possible,and with luck RF any POS'es there,then hit more moons,in a totally new sector.Now the opposion,deploys to defend 2 types of target,What do you do hit the commications JBs ect,to limit their movement or the gate campsAgain now they have a problem, different types of target all vital.As you keep doing this eventually the opposition is either going to try and defend everywhere,thus making them weak in places.Or just defend core assets.Leaving you free then to take out the non core assets .History even to the modern day shows us a good gurrillia startagy will bring down the mightest military power in time .Dont believe me referance Vietnam.Afganistan,China and the african inderpendance wars .Remember Titans /blobs ect are relient on a infastructure ,no ice ,no jump fuel,no JBs ,and movement restricted / slowed for support fleets,no income no replacing lost ships .Your targets arnt the actual ships / blobs,but what supports and makes them work.Cripple that and they just shiney toys.We already have ninja salvaging,and ganking, ect why not ninja POS RFing lol.A very good way for CCP to enable this would to make black ops BSs immune to cyro jammers ,now that really would allow real black ops operations play lol.and opens up a whole can of possibilities.0.0 players are always asking for more targets,usually against those that cant defend themselves.Wonder if they are going to be in favour of this idea,DOUGHT IT as it lets anyone hurt them by taking out their system infastructure and cyro jammers allowing blobs to hit them easily.in core/ vital systems.


You forgot the part where we get involved, infiltrate your group, find where you are going and drop a few fleets of bored subcap pilots on top of your head. Meanwhile we are stealing the entire groups hanger and wallet.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2013-01-31 15:08:54 UTC
turmajin wrote:
A very good way for CCP to enable this would to make black ops BSs immune to cyro jammers ,now that really would allow real black ops operations play lol.and opens up a whole can of possibilities.0.0 players are always asking for more targets,usually against those that cant defend themselves.Wonder if they are going to be in favour of this idea,DOUGHT IT as it lets anyone hurt them by taking out their system infastructure and cyro jammers allowing blobs to hit them easily.in core/ vital systems.


That's such a good idea that it's already in game, and has been for years.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#70 - 2013-01-31 21:08:49 UTC
turmajin wrote:
Again it seems people cant grasp the basics of a gurillia stratagy.As i said you dont engage a mightier power at first ,you frustrate and move the opposing forces around.No one cares about your POS is under attack mails,good.But i gaureentee put a half dozen POS'es in RF they will start to care.,put another half dozen or more in RF the following day,they will care even more.So they mobalise and deploy to defend these POS'es .What do you do hit the ice fields ,and destroy as many mining exhumers /barges as possible,and with luck RF any POS'es there,then hit more moons,in a totally new sector.Now the opposion,deploys to defend 2 types of target,What do you do hit the commications JBs ect,to limit their movement or the gate campsAgain now they have a problem, different types of target all vital.As you keep doing this eventually the opposition is either going to try and defend everywhere,thus making them weak in places.Or just defend core assets.Leaving you free then to take out the non core assets .History even to the modern day shows us a good gurrillia startagy will bring down the mightest military power in time .Dont believe me referance Vietnam.Afganistan,China and the african inderpendance wars .Remember Titans /blobs ect are relient on a infastructure ,no ice ,no jump fuel,no JBs ,and movement restricted / slowed for support fleets,no income no replacing lost ships .Your targets arnt the actual ships / blobs,but what supports and makes them work.Cripple that and they just shiney toys.We already have ninja salvaging,and ganking, ect why not ninja POS RFing lol.A very good way for CCP to enable this would to make black ops BSs immune to cyro jammers ,now that really would allow real black ops operations play lol.and opens up a whole can of possibilities.0.0 players are always asking for more targets,usually against those that cant defend themselves.Wonder if they are going to be in favour of this idea,DOUGHT IT as it lets anyone hurt them by taking out their system infastructure and cyro jammers allowing blobs to hit them easily.in core/ vital systems.


1. Paragraph breaks.

2. We understand how guerrilla warfare works (and know how to spell it), both in RL and in EVE. Simultaneously RFing numerous POSes in enemy territory is not guerrilla warfare, it's large scale conventional warfare (because the only way to do it in a reasonable time [i.e. before you get counter dropped] is with dreads or, frankly, enormous numbers).

2. Incaping JBs does not limit fleet movement. People don't use JBs for moving fleets.

3. So now you want to try to cripple the HS ice market in addition to simultaneously RFing numerous POSes in your attempt to engage against a "numerically superior" force? How many people do you think performing those two tasks takes?

4. Ninja POS RFs do happen. But generally only one at a time because it takes time to knock down 50m EHP with bombers.

5. CovCynos work just fine under Cyno Jammers.

6. You've never actually operated in Nullsec before, have you?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#71 - 2013-02-01 04:07:54 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
So if a force could sneak in a dozen stealth ships and mix one or two cynos in there, then do a simultaneous strike on a dozen moon and thus triggered all their alerts at once, then it's simply a matter of figuring out which of those alerts the victim does not/can not respond to quickly enough - and then launch your real attack there.


Except that the earnest defense of a POS doesn't happen when it's being RFed. It happens when it comes out of RF. So you'd need to simultaneously RF dozens of POSes (and by that point, odds are that someone would come check out one of them, notice your dread fleet, and form up something that they're sure to win with because you have split up your forces to hit each POS at the same time).

Like I said earlier, Nobody cares about the "your POS is under attack" mails.

It's also pretty fast for triage carriers to rep up a tower, and with good cynos and titans, you can get the escort and the carriers about fast.

Unless your "small" force can reinforce multiple dickstar POSes to all come out at the same time, which would be an amazing move in and of itself.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-02-01 04:18:06 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
I just got Sun Tzu'd on GD, do I win a prize now or get accepted into some elite club?

I feel like I've passed a milestone in my Eve career here...


Complete the trifecta of a ww2 analogy and ww1 also
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#73 - 2013-02-01 04:38:54 UTC
Ustrello wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
I just got Sun Tzu'd on GD, do I win a prize now or get accepted into some elite club?

I feel like I've passed a milestone in my Eve career here...


Complete the trifecta of a ww2 analogy and ww1 also


We should be able to play EVE like Rommel's push through the numerically superior but thinly spread defensive line in Operation Sonnenblume.
We should be able to play EVE like Germany's unrestricted Submarine warfare campaign against belligerent's supply ships.

You're welcome.

Oh hey, we already can do that second one, at the cost of a reputational penalty.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-02-01 04:43:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ustrello
RubyPorto wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
I just got Sun Tzu'd on GD, do I win a prize now or get accepted into some elite club?

I feel like I've passed a milestone in my Eve career here...


Complete the trifecta of a ww2 analogy and ww1 also


We should be able to play EVE like Rommel's push through the numerically superior but thinly spread defensive line in Operation Sonnenblume.
We should be able to play EVE like Germany's unrestricted Submarine warfare campaign against belligerent's supply ships.

You're welcome.

Oh hey, we already can do that second one, at the cost of a reputational penalty.


:frogout:
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#75 - 2013-02-01 04:51:43 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
I just got Sun Tzu'd on GD, do I win a prize now or get accepted into some elite club?

I feel like I've passed a milestone in my Eve career here...


Complete the trifecta of a ww2 analogy and ww1 also


We should be able to play EVE like Rommel's push through the numerically superior but thinly spread defensive line in Operation Sonnenblume.
We should be able to play EVE like Germany's unrestricted Submarine warfare campaign against belligerent's supply ships.

You're welcome.

Oh hey, we already can do that second one, at the cost of a reputational penalty.

Nerf ganking.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?