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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

First post
Author
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2011-10-25 09:44:44 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
Walking in Stations is a huge task and one which really hadn't been thought out properly.

We're talking stations of over 20 km in size. How are we going to walk around that lot? What are we going to do in there? In fact, what is in all those thousands of miles of corridors and how are we going to interact?

I've seen other games where we've had taverns in towns where players could meet and, always, they're empty. So, if we're wanting an Eve version of Mallory's Bar (The Gap) or that bar from Total Recall then we're going to have to have something worth our while going around walking in stations.

When I was playing other games I never once saw the point of towns or cities where we could meet other players. Not once did I say I'll spend the evening playing BadgerQuest or whatever and spend the time sitting around in a town. And neither did I once run into any players who were hanging around like extras in Westerns lounging around on the boardwalks.

In every MMO that I have played, players would come into town - because the had to - get whatever it was they had to have done done as fast as they could - and then beetle off to do some whatever they did out of the towns.

So, please tell me, and I mean this most sincerely, what possibly could CCP do to make walking in stations interesting or purposeful to the majority of players? I have, at the moment no interest in WiS and I can't see me every having any interest in doing so. CCP would have to pull a massive rabbit out of a hat to make me interested. And if they tried to force us to leave the pod to find an agent/repairshop/refinery then the recent rage would be nothing compared to that storm.

Walking In Stations/ It's not going to work.


There have been countless suggestions from the player base that would provide fun, logical, immersive Incarna game play... far too many to repost here. You'll have to look at some of the countless Incarna related threads to find them, that is if you haven't already made up your mind.


Ranger 1, that is so true.

I've seen some of your ideas and they are excellent. I've also posted a couple scenarios myself and have seen other great ideas presented as well.

Obviously Myfanwy Heimdal along with all of the other nay saying flamers against WiS and Incarna have no imagination. They lack the mental ability to envision any of the multiple possibility's that could arise from this.

Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#182 - 2011-10-25 10:21:50 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
Yes a lot of players want walking in stations as was originally proposed. Not the single room that we got. There is a difference.

Incarna haters are unable to fathom this.

No, we get it. Again the concept is still extremely limited. What gameplay functionality was there anyways? There's a thousand times more crap to do in FiS than WiS.


So, you don't want anything to do when you get sick of flying your Internet Spaceship? I mean, I don't know about you, but I eventually want to do something other than shoot sixteen Gisii Hijackers for the millionth time in a row.

Honestly, you took one look at Incarna and ran for the airlock. The CQs were not intended to be the only part of Incarna.

It's like judging a peanut factory because they haven't filled all the packages yet.



Let's bounce this the other way; what would you like to do and what would you expect to do?

Go into a seedy space bar? Well, let me tell you that the in game experience isn't going to be the same as going to be close to what you imagine. After about a week everyone who has tried drinking a few shots of something will just wander back to their ships and stay there.

Tell me, what do you want to happen in WiS and what would you expect will be delivered?

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#183 - 2011-10-25 10:30:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Myfanwy Heimdal
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Obviously Myfanwy Heimdal along with all of the other nay saying flamers against WiS and Incarna have no imagination. They lack the mental ability to envision any of the multiple possibility's that could arise from this.



Ah, personal insults.

No imagination, you say? Clearly we've never met because you haven't a clue about what I can, do and have imagined and all of the possibilities that are available.

The problem is that we've got thousands of miles of corridor to fill in each station. The game play, out in space, more or less works. We are talking about moving the gameplay from outside to inside. So, we have thousands of miles of corridors and rooms and CCP have to encourage the whole playerbase that there's something better for them to do inside the stations.

It's no use saying that I haven't any imagination but CCP have the enormous task of changing the game's gameplay so that both FiS and WiS both work and, additionally, make WiS feel more than a half-baked bolt-on.

So, lay off the insults and kindly come up with some good and constructive comments and suggestions on what could be implemented that doesn't effect FiS and would encourage me to leave the pod. And, believe me, leave the pod I will if there is a point, a purpose and an incentive to do so.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Via Shivon
#184 - 2011-10-25 10:32:56 UTC
i want it
in want bars...
i want gambling maschines...
i want poker tables...
i want ....
Ayumi Hinoki
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2011-10-25 10:34:46 UTC
Everyone liked the idea of WiS back in the 2008 Fanfest, full of promises and good features.

We as a community aren't opposed to the development of Incarna but how you tried to implement it. The NeX store and its magically appearing items not created by players was a fail, the forcing players to use Incarna was a fail, the inmersion breaking useless environments was a fail, and so it continues.

Do it how such an amazing expansion it deserves, and don't screw up with FiS along the road, and everyone will be happy.

Come on, you guys have the power.
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#186 - 2011-10-25 10:36:04 UTC
It would be very sad if CCP puts WiS further back. There are a lot of players (including me) who are waiting for WiS since forever. And all we got was "the prison cell". Don't get me wrong. The "cell" is a start, but it seems that after their refocusing we won't see anything WiS related the next few years.

I understand that there are alot of players who are not interested in WiS and do want some content for spaceships. To be true, there is a lot of spaceship content out there and with WiS the content could be iterated even further and open up for deeper content.
Just imagine flying into an exploration site, fighting of some pirates and docking at an old derelict ship. Leaving your Pod and explore the interior of the ship to find some profitable datacores or to blast open the mountings of the cargohold so that you can open it from your ship and loot it. Imagine other players who are also wandering the dark corridors in a race to find the best loot before you do... or to kill you.
Imagine meeting with your enemies on board of a station, beginning negotiations in a smoky bar at the lower levels. Also meeting some shady traders down there and making a deal for some contraband. Leaving the station with the contraband in cargo followed by your enemies. Trying to get away before they scan you and catch you smuggling and open fire.

I don't know why FiS and WiS can't profit from each other, according to the WiS haters. With WiS CCP has the chance to deepen the gameplay in so many ways. That is what I'm waiting for. They shouldn't put it on hold and delay it any further. It would be a mistake.

I hope they can iterate on some FiS features in the winter expansion (yes, those things are important either) and once again distribute a little bit more workforce for WiS. They will have to find a balance.
nahtoh
Vega Farscape
#187 - 2011-10-25 11:29:12 UTC
Jenny Spitfire wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Jenny Spitfire wrote:
I support more of doing something with 3D characters. It is a shame to leave things as they are now.


Genuine Jenny...


No, I am serious. It is a good idea that can add an extra dimension to Eve and sadly, it is taken away. It is issues like this sometimes is killing the game.

Players especially old players being too rigid or conservative and cannot accept changes whether it may be good or bad. The bottom line, however, it is played, is just bitter vet syndrome.

If Eve started with 3D characters and micro-transactions, we will not have such conversation today.


Want to bet? Played a game with walking in stations from the get go (inablity to turn it off annoyed the crap out of me). it was fun for the first wee while but bleeding annoying after that.

Nex store? as longs its stuff that give no in game advantage I don't care one way or another (if someones wants to splurge ISK/whatever playing dressup more power to em).
Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2011-10-25 11:49:07 UTC
Kugutsumen Dot Com wrote:
Texas Hold 'Em would rule, I fully support diverting FiS resources to Incarna if Texas Hold 'Em gets implemented. Especially if there are extremely detailed emotes for taunting or stoicism or something like that. I don't care. I just want EVE Poker where I don't have to trust those EOH guys whose faces are all over my captain's quarter's TV because of their ridiculously high bounties.

e: Texas Hold 'Em was literally one of the best things about Puzzle Pirates. Also totally owning scrubs and destroying their stuff and making them cry.


Uber idea! We need Texas Hold 'em in EVE Online, WiS rocks!
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#189 - 2011-10-25 11:52:48 UTC
Tommy Laughingface wrote:


Uber idea! We need Texas Hold 'em in EVE Online, WiS rocks!


Why not just open a browser window and log onto a proper poker site? Why have CCP divert resources from WiS/FiS to provide something which is already provided for elsewhere?

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
#190 - 2011-10-25 11:55:37 UTC
WiS?
FiS?
It's all fine by me.
Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2011-10-25 12:12:54 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
Tommy Laughingface wrote:


Uber idea! We need Texas Hold 'em in EVE Online, WiS rocks!


Why not just open a browser window and log onto a proper poker site? Why have CCP divert resources from WiS/FiS to provide something which is already provided for elsewhere?


Okay... well, why don't you go play "other" space games and not EVE?
I want to sink my isk into gambling in the game, risking what I have in the game and not my cash in real world.
Play pokers in free poker games? And the "points" and "free chips" u gain are used for.... what?

Have you played poker before? Risking something in poker and playing with free-chip is 2 "different" game, just for your information.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#192 - 2011-10-25 12:45:04 UTC
Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
Tommy Laughingface wrote:


Uber idea! We need Texas Hold 'em in EVE Online, WiS rocks!


Why not just open a browser window and log onto a proper poker site? Why have CCP divert resources from WiS/FiS to provide something which is already provided for elsewhere?


Okay... well, why don't you go play "other" space games and not EVE?
I want to sink my isk into gambling in the game, risking what I have in the game and not my cash in real world.
Play pokers in free poker games? And the "points" and "free chips" u gain are used for.... what?

Have you played poker before? Risking something in poker and playing with free-chip is 2 "different" game, just for your information.


Have I played poker before? Hell's teeth, you nearly owe me a new keyboard as I almost spluttered out a mouthful of espresso. And, yes, I have been playing poker for over thirty years.

Obviously we haven't met so you will be naturally excused for not knowing that I do know the difference between free-bets and real bets. I know because I make my living from within this area of life. Of course, you didn't know that, so that's quite understandable.

Eve is a sandbox. Which is why I wish to play Eve; I am forging (slowly) a career in doing something that's different and what I can't get in other games. I have, not too many posts ago, been accused of not having an imagination. And, yet, it's this imagination which got me off on a strange and fun career path. That is why I play EVE.

Eve, again, is a sandbox. It's not beyond the realms of imagination to create a gaming empire that works. If I wanted gaming in Eve I would either do it myself or get someone to do it. But there's no need; all we have to do is to fire up a browser and do it anyway.

Best wishes.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#193 - 2011-10-25 12:46:19 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Obviously Myfanwy Heimdal along with all of the other nay saying flamers against WiS and Incarna have no imagination. They lack the mental ability to envision any of the multiple possibility's that could arise from this.



Ah, personal insults.

No imagination, you say? Clearly we've never met because you haven't a clue about what I can, do and have imagined and all of the possibilities that are available.

The problem is that we've got thousands of miles of corridor to fill in each station. The game play, out in space, more or less works. We are talking about moving the gameplay from outside to inside. So, we have thousands of miles of corridors and rooms and CCP have to encourage the whole playerbase that there's something better for them to do inside the stations.

It's no use saying that I haven't any imagination but CCP have the enormous task of changing the game's gameplay so that both FiS and WiS both work and, additionally, make WiS feel more than a half-baked bolt-on.

So, lay off the insults and kindly come up with some good and constructive comments and suggestions on what could be implemented that doesn't effect FiS and would encourage me to leave the pod. And, believe me, leave the pod I will if there is a point, a purpose and an incentive to do so.


Actually, this thread is to show positive support. You insult this thread by posting negative flame replies instead of trying to have a positive outlook. The fact that you won't even try to think of a scenario yourself and keep saying there's 1000's of miles of corridor's to fill tells me you lack imagination. The stations only need to have a few levels with maybe up to a dozen rooms each, max.

Top level could be 1 large room, the Promenade Deck, with large viewing ports to watch the ships outside the station. Can check if you're being station camped or maybe do side bets watching the pvp action.
2nd level could have Conference Rooms for Corporate meetings, War Room with access to 3D maps, a Central Command Center, Medical Bay.
3rd level would have Market, Shops, Bars, Casino, Security Office complete with holding cells (Brig), etc.
Bottom level would have storage compartments, small rooms for black market deals, etc.

FYI - I've watched the CCP Videos with Dev's giving progress updates and demonstrations about Incarna and Dust. They even showed a ship leaving a station in space, traveling to a planet and doing atmospheric flight. Maybe I'm wrong but this is what I got from watching all those video demonstrations and interviews:

Incarna is a visionary step to turn a PC mmo spaceship simulation into a real time based sci-fi virtual reality.
Dust is a visionary step to turn a Console mmo FPS simulation into a real time based sci-fi virtual reality.
Joining these two totally different control applications together to work simultaneously would transform Eve Online into the ultimate real time based sci-fi virtual reality universe.

If CCP can accomplish this and make it work, it will usher in a whole new era and revolutionize the gaming world as we know it. As for new game play content, come on, it can't be that tough to think of some.

Hell, here's a couple of scenarios.

While in your ship or in station, your personal communicator (Aura?) activates an alarm informing you an invasion force has attacked and captured a PI facility on one of your planets. You contact the Dust Commander and inform him to meet you in the War Room to plan a counter attack and regain control. In the War Room are 3-D visual maps of the Planet, the PI facility's and surrounding areas. You both examine the maps, verify the enemy position and mark the drop zones for supplies. After forming a plan of attack, you load the supplies into your ship while the Dust Commander rejoins his team who are waiting at the 1st drop zone on the planet.

You travel to the planet with the supplies loaded in your ship, enter into atmospheric flight and drop the supplies at the 1st drop zone. While en-route back to the station, you encounter a small blockade of enemy player ships. You make a call to your Corporation and are quickly joined by a couple of Fleet mates. Small gang PvP combat starts happening in space while the FPS ground forces engage each other.

As the battle in space continues, you receive a call from the Dust Commander requesting supplies to be dropped at the 2nd drop zone. You and your Fleet mates have almost killed all enemy player ships when more enemy player ships warp in and you find yourself locked and tackled. Dust Commander informs you his team is boxed in and needs those supplies now.

or

You log into the game with the sound of alarms going off in your Captains Quarters. The main viewscreen informs you that the station is under Security Lockdown (no docking or undocking) due to an Invasion force (Sansha?). You and other players trapped inside the station must Hack into various Security lockers for weapons and munitions. Players then go deck by deck, seeking out and killing all invaders encountered, Salvaging more weapons and munitions, body armor, etc..

Players must make their way to the Central Command Center to deactivate the Security Lockdown allowing players access to the docking bay. Question is: What will you do? Do you attempt this solo? Create a gang with other players for tactical combat and medical support? Stay inside your Captains Quarters and hope somebody else deactivates the Security Lockdown?

There are many different game play possibility's that could happen. I for one hope and pray that CCP is successful in making their dream a reality for us to enjoy. I wanna tell my friends - Hey, Eve is Real.
Mallikanth
Wasters
#194 - 2011-10-25 13:22:58 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Reading the CCP CEO interview I was taken by this comment.

"but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to. "

I don't agree, we certainly do want FiS but that doesn't mean we don't wasn more WiS. I think a lot of us do! And leaving WiS as single player prison cell CQ is a reminder that CCP can't keep its promises. The interview makes it clear there is no plan in the works or even being discussed to take WiS beyond the prison cell.

So if you wanted WiS please post in this thread because I think a lot of us want CCP to deliver more of what they have promised use for years now.

DO NOT ABANDON WiS!!
LET US OUT THAT DOOR!!!!

Issler


With everything that's gone on you still want to push for this?
Basically you're saying I want less subscribers and people working for CCP.

If you can't understand that point then you need to re-read and think about everything that's gone on these last few weeks.

Now don't get me wrong, owning Bars etc could be fun and I wouldn't mind having a look but not to the detriment to the core aspects of the game and ultimately to CCP.

Believe in what they do, not what they say.

Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2011-10-25 13:28:18 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
Tommy Laughingface wrote:
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
Tommy Laughingface wrote:


Uber idea! We need Texas Hold 'em in EVE Online, WiS rocks!


Why not just open a browser window and log onto a proper poker site? Why have CCP divert resources from WiS/FiS to provide something which is already provided for elsewhere?


Okay... well, why don't you go play "other" space games and not EVE?
I want to sink my isk into gambling in the game, risking what I have in the game and not my cash in real world.
Play pokers in free poker games? And the "points" and "free chips" u gain are used for.... what?

Have you played poker before? Risking something in poker and playing with free-chip is 2 "different" game, just for your information.


Have I played poker before? Hell's teeth, you nearly owe me a new keyboard as I almost spluttered out a mouthful of espresso. And, yes, I have been playing poker for over thirty years.

Obviously we haven't met so you will be naturally excused for not knowing that I do know the difference between free-bets and real bets. I know because I make my living from within this area of life. Of course, you didn't know that, so that's quite understandable.

Eve is a sandbox. Which is why I wish to play Eve; I am forging (slowly) a career in doing something that's different and what I can't get in other games. I have, not too many posts ago, been accused of not having an imagination. And, yet, it's this imagination which got me off on a strange and fun career path. That is why I play EVE.

Eve, again, is a sandbox. It's not beyond the realms of imagination to create a gaming empire that works. If I wanted gaming in Eve I would either do it myself or get someone to do it. But there's no need; all we have to do is to fire up a browser and do it anyway.

Best wishes.


Ahhh, sorry if my saying didn't give you full undestanding of my point. ^q^
If thats how you put it. Then here is what I would say.
"Fine, then stop living in that corner of life and only play pokers on free-bet games on browser. Oh, and don't mind about bragging your 'personal' situations on enjoying poker with real bet. Only then you would understand the meaning of having poker or ANY gambling in virtual world like EVE where they allow you to take balance between risk and a safe environment that is game."


Okay, so you would still play EVE if its a sandbox without any splash explosions and just a bunch of dotted solar systems connected by lines? It is called simulation game and we gamers have been playing it for long. While for a long time we imagined this EVE world where you could fly 3D ships in space, it was made possible by people who envisioned this in thin air. And you only came here and play it and says "I am imaginative" in accepting their imagination.

Incarna is a new stage for CCP and EVE developers, as well as its supporters (not including nay-saying "i'm just a FiS player" people).
It has been how we envisioned it in thin air, how we lusted for years, and we've discussed so many possibilities this could bring to EVE.
What you know as EVE will be changed and different, but please don't limit EVE only to your existentialistic imagination.
Gerald Taric
NEO DYNAMICS
#196 - 2011-10-25 13:34:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerald Taric
( i was writing much text, but the forum software "podded" it by "preview"ing it :( )

Short version:

I also like CQ and i'm really looking forward to WiS. But - yes - it should not be done on the cost of FiS, which is still the core of this amazing game.
yumike
Doomheim
#197 - 2011-10-25 13:36:55 UTC  |  Edited by: yumike
Killstealing wrote:
get out

qft

Morganta wrote:
2 out of 10 for Wis

a clear majority 20%....

lol, kind of the point. of a vocal minority (the forums) and so few actually wish to prioritize wis > fis. Yet all the incarna fans were talking about how we are the minority. Sigh

What most fail to realize is if EVE forums is 3% of the population (Which, is probably being rather giving.) and only 20% of that 3% want it. extrapolate that onto the player base and we're talking about 30~40k subscribers that care about wis more then fis.
Barakkus
#198 - 2011-10-25 13:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakkus
Tashanaka wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
Tashanaka wrote:
[ Agreed, WiS is a nice concept but once you walk around the station what is there to do? Nothing. What activities are going to add to WiS? No real details yet. What is going to make WiS better than docking into the hanger view? Nothing so far. So, where are the details?

CCP needs to put WiS on the back burner and work on FiS features/balance/upgrades until they have a concept for WiS that'd make it worth getting out of the hanger.



They had one, as seen in the video from 2008 which we never got, but it looked awesome.



The one where they were walking around a mall and going into a bar playing a mini-game? It's a beginning concept --and a hell of a lot more than we DID get in Incarna-- but it's still void of any real gameplay. How much time do you see yourself drinking Quafe, staring at exotic dancers, and playing a RISK type mini-game before you get bored?

As I said, I'm not against WiS but it needs compelling gameplay that has meaning in EVE.


Actually I would probably spend a good deal of time hanging out in station waiting for various things for instance, I run incursions with a group of friends, we often have long wait lists to get on grid. I could hang out in station for half an hour or an hour or so until I'm on grid. I run with another group of friends on small roams...I could be hanging out in Dodixie in station waiting on people to show up and get shipped up etc. I do sit on my couch and stare at the tv while I chat with people waiting for various things here and there. I think a lot of other people would too, quite a few actually considering how long it takes some slow ass people to get where they need to be :P

As mentioned above, a lot of people might sit around and play cards or whatever...they had a chess board in one demo video, I'd probably sit around and play that a bit too.

Some of you may want to try playing some other games that have **** like that and see how places to congregate actually do get used in other games. There will be plenty of people interested in that sort of thing, and it brings a lot more immersion to the EVE universe imo.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Tommy Laughingface
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2011-10-25 13:50:18 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
Tashanaka wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
Tashanaka wrote:
[ Agreed, WiS is a nice concept but once you walk around the station what is there to do? Nothing. What activities are going to add to WiS? No real details yet. What is going to make WiS better than docking into the hanger view? Nothing so far. So, where are the details?

CCP needs to put WiS on the back burner and work on FiS features/balance/upgrades until they have a concept for WiS that'd make it worth getting out of the hanger.



They had one, as seen in the video from 2008 which we never got, but it looked awesome.



The one where they were walking around a mall and going into a bar playing a mini-game? It's a beginning concept --and a hell of a lot more than we DID get in Incarna-- but it's still void of any real gameplay. How much time do you see yourself drinking Quafe, staring at exotic dancers, and playing a RISK type mini-game before you get bored?

As I said, I'm not against WiS but it needs compelling gameplay that has meaning in EVE.


Actually I would probably spend a good deal of time hanging out in station waiting for various things for instance, I run incursions with a group of friends, we often have long wait lists to get on grid. I could hang out in station for half an hour or an hour or so until I'm on grid. I run with another group of friends on small roams...I could be hanging out in Dodixie in station waiting on people to show up and get shipped up etc. I do sit on my couch and stare at the tv while I chat with people waiting for various things here and there. I think a lot of other people would too, quite a few actually considering how long it takes some slow ass people to get where they need to be :P

As mentioned above, a lot of people might sit around and play cards or whatever...they had a chess board in one demo video, I'd probably sit around and play that a bit too.

Some of you may want to try playing some other games that have **** like that and see how places to congregate actually do get used in other games. There will be plenty of people interested in that sort of thing, and it brings a lot more immersion to the EVE universe imo.


I am sure that you get navigation button window that gives you quick access to locations, bar, mall, and such.
You should also be able to open all the market window, fitting, chats, and other things during your time in bars or walking around.
I too spend a lot of time in station just chatting or fitting or watching the price for no reason.
EVE is different from WoW or any of those "previously" available games, keep your imagination alive, people.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#200 - 2011-10-25 13:57:25 UTC
I want WiS, but not at the expense of everything else which was clearly what was happening. In addition they really have to actually come up with a reason to have WiS. There needs to be an actual gameplay element that can only be accomplished out of your ship...smuggling, gambling, whatever. Whatever it is, it needs to be as consequential as the rest of the game, and it needs to interact with game elements such as the market, or industry in some manner.